Jerry Seinfeld just hopes Chappelle’s SNL monologue brings about the right kind of dialogue
After Dave Chappelle's SNL monologue drew criticism for anti-semitism, Seinfeld says that the subject matter of the set "calls for a conversation."
Aux News Jerry Seinfeld
As Dave Chappelle’s controversial 15-minute monologue on last weekend’s Saturday Night Live seeps through the cultural membrane, Jerry Seinfeld has gently said his piece on the matter—by saying very little at all.
In a new interview with The Hollywood Reporter, Seinfeld addresses the monologue in vague yet clearly allusive terms. “I did think the comedy was well-executed, but I think the subject matter calls for a conversation that I don’t think I’d want to have in this venue,” Seinfeld says.
The subject matter in question is Chappelle’s invocation of multiple anti-semitic tropes throughout the set, wherein he discussed Kanye West’s recent descent into public bigotry and his own relationship with the Jewish community. The monologue received criticism from, among others, ADL CEO Jonathan Greenblatt, who slammed both Chappelle and SNL for normalizing anti-semitism.
When asked if the monologue made him uncomfortable, Seinfeld again focuses on the monologue’s potential positive aftermath, sharing: “It provokes a conversation which hopefully is productive.” (The A.V. Club’s Trae DeLellis called the monologue “the best and worst moment” of the evening’s show.)
Although Seinfeld says he and Chappelle are “friends,” he describes their connection as “not a close relationship”— and not one that would lend to a nuanced conversation on anti-semitism between the two.
Seinfeld isn’t the first older-guard comedian to talk to Chappelle in recent days. Jon Stewart also said his piece during a guest appearance on The Late Show With Stephen Colbert on Tuesday night. Stewart’s stance on the matter also leaned towards dialogue—as he sees it, censorship isn’t the right way to grapple with deep-held prejudices.
“I don’t believe that censorship and penalties are the way to end antisemitism or to not gain understanding,” Stewart shared. “I don’t believe in that. I think it’s the wrong way to approach it.”
He continued: “We have to get past this in the country. People think Jews control Hollywood. People think Jews control the banks. And to pretend that they don’t and to not deal with it in a straightforward manner, we’ll never gain any kind of understanding with each other.”
189 Comments
His response was perfectly reasonable? It’s basically: why are you looking to Jerry Seinfeld to solve this? Comes off to me as self-awareness that this really isn’t his lane, and it isn’t. He has no deep thoughts on this, and realizes it.
“A conversation that I don’t think I’d want to have in this venue” is also an awareness that the person on the phone is looking for “Seinfeld blasts back at Chappelle” clickbait headline and he’s politely opting out of that.
They’re not looking for him to solve it…they’re simply looking for a reaction from one of the most prominent Jewish comedians.Reasonable for them to ask, reasonable for him to try and stay out of it.
Am I on the right internet with all this reasonableness or reasonability or whatever it is?
Am I on the right internet with all this reasonableness or reasonability or whatever it is?Maybe you missed a software update. Try restarting your device and log onto Twitter. That should solve the issue and make everything go back to the way it was.
Ew, no.
FUCK YOU!
That’s more like it.
No. This is Beyonce’s internet. You’re looking for Al Gore’s internet.
Don’t worry, if you want a hurricane-force full-blast of brutal irrationality in the internet in your face, just head to Twitter and do a search for “Elon”… well, search for anything really. These are the current latest tweets showing up if you search for something as inane as “goldfish”:
Right?? I feel like we should all have goatees, mirror-universe style
They were hoping for some fresh meat, but he noped out of it and this whiff of an article is the result.
Dave Chappelle has a bit about Michael Richard’s on-stage melt-down, and I think about it every once in a while. (1:51 in the video below)
Comedians aren’t a monolith, but they are often a tight knit group. These guys were (usually) friends before anyone else knew their names. They typically have a better understanding of one another than you or I might have.
Man, I miss when Chapelle was just . . . funny.
1. “I think I’m 20% black and 80% comedian” *really* sums Chappelle up, doesn’t it?2. God, him laughing at himself and smacking the mic against his thigh is obnoxious. Dude is just endlessly amused with himself…which also sums him up perfectly.
I think there’s a point in most adult male’s lives (more with kids than without) where we enter the dad joke realm. It’s almost genetically imprinted in us. It’s where we think our terrible jokes really are the funniest things ever, even if in the cases where we know they border on torture.
Antisemitism is probably the most repulsive, destructive ideology created and perpetuated in a wide variety of world cultures. Learning about antisemitism tells us so much about humanity, religion and modernism. Dave Chappelle has become just another bigot and he is super-proud that he gets to shit on minorities the way white guys do. Whats’s to “understand”? Nothing. I am bored just thinking about the guy for two minutes.
I recall an interview with Chris Rock where was having much the same attitude – hurt at what was said but then empathy because hecklers are the worst
QUICK FIND A JEWISH COMEDIAN’S OPINION ON CHAPPELLE
Hmm – I more got the impression that he is a little torn between calling out anti-Semitism, and maintaining his stance that you can joke about anything, and shouldn’t have to worry about “getting cancelled”. But I may be wrong (and frequently am).
I think you’re right on the money with this one.
Since comedians — including Seinfeld — clearly feel that any criticism or even commentary coming from a “civilian” is inherently invalid, how else are we to tell how we’re supposed to feel about Chappelle’s set than to ask other comics?
“I’m rich bitch!” – Jerry ‘Billionaire’ Seinfeld
How are so many people bad at understanding a joke?!? The brilliancy of the joke’s premise isn’t about antisemitism it’s about how stereotyping groups is wrong. This issue isn’t even about Chappelle it’s about peoples dog whistles and only what they want to hear.
“How are so many people bad at understanding a joke?!? The brilliancy of the joke’s premise isn’t about antisemitism it’s about how stereotyping groups is wrong.”
I love that you don’t understand the joke but are angry that other people.
No, he made a strawman claim that it’s acceptable for society to stereotype everyone except Jews. Which is BS because the exact group of “wokesters” he targets find it equally unacceptable to call Blacks a gang, Italians a mob, or Jews a “cabal”. There’s no one who does that except you know, the White Supremacist bros who are his audience now.
I’m jewish, didn’t find the monologue as offensive as most people are crying about at all. But to act like the “woke” left does not like calling Jews a “cabal” or some kind of secretive powerful group is just dead wrong. Some of the most vicious antisemitism has been coming from leftists, for years.
You seem to be under the impression that calling out the state of israel for genociding the palestinian people amounts to antisemitism
Also the premise was that Kanye West talking about “Death con 3″ or some shit and Kyrie Irving promoting and updated version of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion on Amazon were violating some social taboo, rather than engaging in the most basic possible behavior.
LOL. You think it was a “straw man” argument? It was a comedy monologue not a fucking TED talk. Your response is hilarious because you’re making that person’s point. You don’t get what comedy is. Not even a little bit. Comedy, especially stand up, is not an academic, logical treatise that one is to take at face value. I would bet you didn’t even watch the monologue and you’re just cribbing notes from woke Twitter. How hard is this to understand? He’s not saying it’s “acceptable” to stereotype Jewish people. He points it out directly when he makes the Ferguson comparison. You could relate it just as easily with professional sports. Just because the majority of the players in the NBA are black, that doesn’t mean they “control” the NBA. So it’s just as ridiculous to say that Jews “control” Hollywood.At the same time, it’s silly to just ignore it and to never ask why. Why does that perception exist? Saying there are a lot of Jewish people in Hollywood is a joke as old as Hollywood itself. Why do you think that is? How can you address the conspiracy theories around that if you won’t even talk about it?And I hate to break it to you, bub, but “white supremacists” are not his core audience. That is a colossally fucking stupid thing to say. I guarantee I’m to the Left of you, and I think Chappelle is maybe the greatest comic of our generation. Sure, some of his jokes make me uncomfortable. Some of his jokes don’t land with me. And that’s okay. Comedy isn’t a bunch of knock-knock jokes for woke white hipsters who compete every day to see who can be more performatively outraged.
Exactly right. And there ARE black gangs and there IS an Italian mob. Those are social problems that are real. And we all know broad-brush fallacies are the tools of racists so we don’t paint all minorities as criminals. But there is not, nor has there ever been, a Jewish cabal.Two truths and a lie.Implying there is a jewish cabal is the real pernicious lie that Chappelle attempts to get past everyone.
You might need to know more ‘wokesters’: blind spots and stereotyping still fly with a lot, even the ones who claim to be above it.
Definitely listen to grown adults that call people wokesters. They deserve to be taken seriously.
I thought Wokester got sued out of existence by Metallica.
To make the claim that only white supremacist bros believe stereotypes is severely naive and honestly patronizing. The intersectionality of race dynamics in America is much more complicated than “only white people are racist.” As a cis white guy who married into a first generation Mexican family, and whose circle of close friends are all immigrants from Europe, stereotypes and prejudices are found everywhere, and having reasonable dialogue and finding out why people believe what they do is probably the most enlightening path we can take, not you know assuming the absolute worst of people. But what do I know 🤷
Something Chappelle is very familiar with.
“Brilliancy”You certainly seem a good judge of that particular quality.
No. It was the same old well-worn antisemitic trick of “Two Truths and a Lie.” And a False Equivalence logical fallacy to boot.As explained here by Jewish comedian Hannah Einbinder:“He used a genius technique: two truths and a lie,” the two-time Emmy nominee wrote on her Instagram story. “What I mean by that is, bigoted people will often couch their bigotry in a degree of truth. They’ll tell you two great things, and then they slip the lie in, because they’ve earned your trust with the two great things they’ve told you. So, in his case, the ‘truth’ is good jokes. He had some solid jokes in that set. Ones I laughed at. The laughter allowed for people to miss the reemphasis of conspiracy he sprinkled in. No one who laughs at the solid jokes would be willing to admit that there was antisemitism in that monologue, because that admission would then qualify them as complicit. No one wants to feel like a bad person. The fact is: non Jews aren’t as keenly aware of antisemitic ideas, tropes, verbiage etc. Most people just missed these ideas all together, and only remember that they laughed. So when Jews say hey, there was antisemitism in there, folks go, ‘you’re too sensitive. Learn to take a joke.’ Because no one wants to feel they’re bad people, they gaslight Jews by telling us that we are imagining things.”“The danger here is that Dave Chappelle, and every other male comedian who believes that their amplification of bigotry is just freedom of speech, are seen as tellers of hard truths, and thus anyone who criticizes them are seen as snowflakes,” she continues. “I invite you to reframe the narrative. These men who pick on marginalized groups are establishment bullies reinforcing the status quo — not at all the job of a comedian. It is the people who speak out *against* them who are the truth tellers.”
The same way so many people are bad at understanding that criticism doesn’t equal calling for absolute censorship.
There was a joke?
If so many people are “missing the joke” maybe the joke wasn’t very good.
Ok, Jon. Clearly we should let the anti-Semites say whatever they want without consequence, that will absolutely solve the problem of anti-Semitism.
Dom King, is that you?
“Uh, no.” – Section 130 of Germany’s penal; code (Strafgesetzbuch – StG)
I just wish people would stop categorizing appropriate criticism as “censorship and penalties.”
It’s the only out they have
You must be a very, very tired person.
Jon Stewart should fucking know better.
Heh, they’ve been doing that on Twitter already and it doesn’t seem to have helped.
I don’t really know what would have to be said or done for the most famous stand up comics to publicly criticize another famous stand up comic.
Why do they need to? You need Jerry Seinfeld to be the arbiter of all things Jewish? Also, saying it should lead to a conversation is criticism. It’s about the softest criticism there is. But considering they were saying it to “media outlets” who are just hoping for a conflict to sell, it’s appropriate.
Haha damn calm down it was a joke about how a clique circles the wagons.
Whether it was a “joke” or not, it was in service of an actual point (which you reiterate in your follow-up). Someone else responded to your point with a counterpoint. That’s how a discussion normally goes. Responding to it with the “just a joke” deflection, where you pretend to be the most laid-back guy in the room to show how you’re above engaging in the conversation you just started, is disingenuous and fucking annoying.
The ‘counterpoint’ was the immediate introduction of the strawman “You need Jerry Seinfeld to be the arbiter of all things Jewish?”, which wasn’t the point the OP was making at all.
Anyway comedians suck
Now that Gottfried’s dead, someone should be
“I don’t believe that censorship and penalties are the way to end antisemitism or to not gain understanding,” Stewart shared. “I don’t believe in that. I think it’s the wrong way to approach it.”Uh, sure. I don’t think censorship and penalties will end antisemitism either. But I don’t think Chappelle’s monologue helped, and I believe it fueled a larger trend of antisemitism in the country – a trend that has consequences for everyday people, not someone like Jon Stewart.I did like his bit about Trump stealing work from work.
My understanding is that the “censorship” Stewart was talking about was Kyrie Irving rather than Dave Chapelle.
He was.
I wish Hattie Lindert had made that clear.
You think there are more anti-semites in the world today than there were Saturday afternoon, or that America is now more dangerous for the Jewish population? I’m probably coming off like a dick, but simply have a hard time believing Chappelle making a joke about Jews controlling Hollywood (a novel position) moves the needle one iota.
You think there are more anti-semites in the world today than there were Saturday afternoon, or that America is now more dangerous for the Jewish population?Yes. I’m probably coming off like a dickYes. simply have a hard time believing Chappelle making a joke about Jews controlling Hollywood (a novel position) moves the needle one iota.That’s fine. Maybe I’m wrong. But I feel that it did embolden antisemites. White supremacists would love to have a group they can point to and go, “See? Whether you’re white or black, we all can agree the Jews are controlling the media!”
What Chappelle said and what Kanye and Kyrie were saying are so far apart though that it’s honestly not even worth comparing them. Maybe this is just because I’m not a “Jewish conspiracy” type, but it seemed to me his comments were trying to take the power away from the “look how many Jews there are in Hollywood” argument in favor of them controlling the media by not hiding from the fact that there are a lot of Jews working in entertainment. The Ferguson comparison drove the point home.
Meanwhile, Kyrie was on some Black Israelite shit and Kanye’s talking about “going death-con 3” on Jews (whatever the fuck that means in his crazy ass head)…very different from what Chappelle was going for.
Yeah, I liked that Ferguson line. Not everything is a competition though. Not only would I agree that Kanye and Kyrie’s comments were more harmful and offensive, the worst I have said about Chappelle’s set was that his jokes about Jews made me uncomfortable. Now, if you’re anti-woke or whatever, you see those words and (I imagine) your first thought is, “GET OVER IT SNOWFLAKE SO WHAT IF YOU FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE FACTS NOT FEELINGS WAAAAH.” But I don’t think Chappelle should be cancelled or censored or what the fuck ever because *I* felt uncomfortable. I’m just exercising my freedom of speech to describe how I feel.However, I stand my belief that Chappelle’s SNL monologue was not really what we needed right now. If Kyrie and Kanye’s comments were figuratively opening the door for antisemites to feel empowered to openly express their antisemitism, Chappelle was impishly nodding his head towards the door, like, “Go on. You know you want to.”The fact is, Chappelle said he left Comedy Central because he thought the wrong people were laughing a little too hard at his jokes about black people. He is acutely aware of how racists are able to completely miss the point of a joke and weaponize it. IMHO, his routine was ambiguous and left plenty of room for “the wrong people” (who are already enamored with his views on trans people and cancel culture) to completely miss his point.
but it seemed to me his comments were trying to take the power away from
the “look how many Jews there are in Hollywood” argument in favor of
them controlling the media by not hiding from the fact that there are a
lot of Jews working in entertainment.Here’s what I don’t get. So there’s a lot of Jews working in entertainment, let’s just assume that statement is literally true, in, like, a demographic sense.So what? What’s there to discuss about it? Does anyone ever bring it up except as a launching pad for anti-semitic dogwhistling?
I feel like it emboldened a bunch of commenters on this here club to tell actual Jewish commenters to shut the hell up about it.
How do you think antisemitic ideas spread?Mainstream figures gently reinforcing antisemitic tropes goes a lot further than neo-Nazis leaning all the way into it.Dave Chapelle is a pretty influential figure, and, with the even bigger SNL platform behind him, arguing that the problem with Kanye and Kyrie isn’t that they hold terribly bigoted and bogus ideas but that they were gauche enough to speak “the truth” out loud is pretty fucking shitty.But it’s pretty typical for a once edgy comedian to just turn into a reactionary asshole once he passes his prime.
Exactly, people often think that there are these big watershed moments that precede prejudice but really it’s slow and insidious. The proof of that is literally what we are seeing right now. I think people may not remember or realize that even just 15 years ago these kinds of comments that your inappropriate uncle might say being broadcast on SNL of all things would have been met with an almost universal condemnation, or maybe not even aired. The fact that now it’s “well maybe we should have a conversation about it” is because of all the tiny normalization over the last decade.
It works so much better that fascists actually use celebrity antisemitism (and other hate speech) to spread fascism!
“During the Vietnam War, which lasted longer than any war we’ve ever been in – and which we lost – every respectable artist in this country was against the war. It was like a laser beam. We were all aimed in the same direction. The power of this weapon turns out to be that of a custard pie dropped from a stepladder six feet high.” -Kurt Vonnegut
You are coming off like a dick, and moreover a dick who is completely removed from the consequences and doesn’t care enough to look into it while still feeling like you need to put your uninformed 2 cents in on a game you have no skin in.We’re in the middle of a massive global fascist resurgence, one being played out on different terrain than the history books but it’s clear as day and incredibly chilling. They use this celebrity antisemitism (along with homo/transphobia, misogyny etc.) to push their ideology and recruit. They’ve been doing it for years now and it’s effective as hell. If you doubt that, i suggest you actually look at the growing numbers of hate crimes, the growth of hate speech, the always shifting but still growing membership in fascist, proto fascist and fascist feeder organizations, the amount of normalized hate speech increasing on the airwaves, the dogwhistling on ‘legitimate’ news networks, and keep digging from there.https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1592322288128778241.htmlhttps://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/antisemitic-incidents-hit-a-record-high-in-2021-whats-behind-the-rise-in-hate
If antisemites are celebrating it, and lifelong Chappelle fans think it’s okay, then there are absolutely more.
I don’t think it’s that it adds more anti-Semites to the pile. More so, that it just makes the existing fools, backed by a celebrity, it makes it feel less like a theory and more like fact for them. Re-enforcing their negative behavior/thoughts..
Honest question – how do you think anti-Semitism (not anti-Judaism) spread throughout Europe in the late-19th and into the 20th? It began as fringe ideas and eventually trickled its way into everyday life. It began to take hold during a time of crisis and upheaval. And got to the point where enough people began thinking there was a “Jewish problem” that need to be solved.Not every German or Frenchmen or Pole was reading the “scientific” literature of the day on race. But a dumb down, vulgarized anti-Semitism worked its way into peoples’ lives.Chapelle and Kanye have a pull. And, yes, they have helped embolden others. Especially younger folks.
Also, people keep misunderstanding what censorship is. Criticism isn’t censorship.
You know what I love in comedy?HEAVY, SOMBER, AND FUNEREAL RACE CONVERSATION.
You’re gunna love Chappelle’s material on trans persons! Because my dude it is grim, he whips out his “serious person” demeanor after like the third beat!
“I don’t believe that censorship and penalties are the way to end antisemitism or to not gain understanding,” Stewart shared. “I don’t believe in that. I think it’s the wrong way to approach it.” I’m sure reasonable discourse will prevail. Any day now.
He just stuffs wads of cash in his ears so he can’t hear the anti-antisemitism.
For someone who is honestly one of the best interviewers to pin down people spouting blatant lies and dishonesty, Stewart has way more faith in people than I would expect.
I always liked that he wasn’t as cynical as a lot of other comedians.
How can reasonable discourse prevail when one side has deluded themselves into believing the other side are nazis and fascists? No doubt if this escapes the grays my point will be proven, as some won’t be able to resist coming in and going “well ACKSHUALLY they are fascists”.
How can reasonable discourse prevail when one side has deluded themselves into believing the other side are nazis and fascists? 1. Your statement assumes the same blanket ideology as the side you ostensibly hate. Liberals are not a monolith. Conservatives are not a monolith. Not every liberal is a blue-haired undergrad shitposter. Not every gun-owning conservative is a racist Nazi.2. Your inability to distinguish or recognize this makes you a fucking moron.
“We have to get past this in the country. People think Jews control Hollywood. People think Jews control the banks. And to pretend that they don’t and to not deal with it in a straightforward manner, we’ll never gain any kind of understanding with each other.”Really awkward phrasing, makes it seem like the “they” refers to “Jews.”
I think he’s saying to pretend that people don’t think these things is the problem, not that the Jews actually control Hollywood and the banks.
Right, I understood that only after reading it twice. It’s poorly phrased.
Banks are a worldwide industry of many ethnicities going back a long ways, but Hollywood is a specific place which really was built by Jewish-Americans. Like Joel Stein, I don’t see anything bad about acknowledging that.
It needs context though. My understanding is that entertainment has so many Jewish people in it because Jews were prevented from holding many occupations throughout Europe before they came here. Barred from working in some places, some turned to entertainment, making careers and communities in theater music. When Jewish people began migrating to the US, many who had established careers in entertaining set up theatres on the East Coast, mostly in NYC. Eventually, those entertainment venues grew and as more Jews were born here or came from their countries of origin, they joined the industry their compatriots had established a foothold in. When Hollywood became a thing, the existing cultural traditions around theatre and entertainment positioned some Jewish people to find great success.Hollywood isn’t completely run by Jews, I don’t think they own all the studios, or even most of them. But there are historical and cultural reasons that ‘explain’ why Jewish people are perhaps overrepresented in entertainment industry. Chapelle has demonstrated he can weave history into his jokes. I wish he could have done something like that with this latest monologue
Entertainment in general was considered a disreputable profession until relatively recently, which is the main reason Jewish people were “allowed” to partake in it. Same with various areas of the law and real estate until much more recently (white shoe law firms thought it was beneath them).
Same reason you saw more prominent women in positions of power during the silent era: not a proven industry yet.
This is somewhat true, though the history is more complex. I recommend “An Empire of Their Own” by Neal Gabler as a good reference for the history of Jewish people in Hollywood. They also made the book into a good documentary.
Good point about NY theater, where it seems they have been important going back a long ways (Broadway was founded by the Schubert brothers), but my understanding is that early American cinema was centered around New Jersey and controlled by Edison. People going to California to get out from under his thumb and outshining NJ is a bit like Silicon Valley overtaking New Jersey (which once represented the Unix & C “worse is better” approach vs the MIT/DEC & LISP way) after Shockley left Bell Labs.Restrictions on Jewish occupations in Europe explain their concentration in certain industries there (particularly finance & jewelry that could be easily moved if they were kicked out vs less transportable forms of wealth) prior to Jewish emancipation, but I don’t buy the same thing explaining entertainment in the US. We didn’t have such occupational laws, and I don’t think they were as concentrated in entertainment in Europe.At the time Joel Stein wrote about it*, every notable studio was indeed headed by Jews (including the one founded by a gentile, Disney). That was back in 2008, so it’s been a while, but I would be surprised if it had shrunk to less than a majority by now.* https://www.patheos.com/resources/additional-resources/2010/03/who-runs-hollywood
Most of the early HW founders came from either vaudeville or the garment business IIRC.
So there IS some truth to it.
I was REALLY puzzled for a bit about this. Thank you for the clarification.
“I don’t believe that censorship and penalties are the way to end antisemitism or to not gain understanding,” Stewart shared. “I don’t believe in that. I think it’s the wrong way to approach it.” Again, for the nth fuckin time: Saying a bad joke is bad constitutes neither “censorship” nor “penalties.”
My understanding is that his comment was a reference to Kyrie Irving rather than Chapelle. Stewart joked about Irving being an adult put in a time-out until he said sorry.
Stop it you’re shattering their narrative.
But if you would have preferred SNL cave and not let Dave host yeah you’re pro censorship. Criticism is fine as long as there isn’t an undertone of “this dude needs to go”.
No, choosing not to give a platform to already famous and influential comedian does not constitute “censorship” either.
It absolutely is a form of censorship. Just own it.
You: I WANT TO SHOUT TRANSPHOBIC BULLSHIT! CAN I BORROW YOUR MEGAPHONE?Me: No.You: THAT IS ABSOLUTELY A FORM OF CENSORSHIP YOU ARE CENSORING ME I AM BEING CENSORED WHY DOES NO ONE CARE ABOUT FREE SPEECH CENSORED CENSORSHIP CCCCEEENNNNSSSSOOOOORRRRSSSHHHIIIIPPPPP!!!!!!!!¡!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!!
“Women dont have penises” is not transphobic, dipshit.You’re pro censorship, own it. Be proud of your hobbies.
Wasn’t aware you were saying that, but yes, it very much is.
How is the fact women dont have penises transphobic? Reality is now transphobic?
Most women don’t have penises. Some women do. Trans women are women.
Nope. Trans women are mentally ill men who claim they are women.If you were born with a penis it is impossible for you to become a woman. This isn’t transphobic, it’s just reality. Show me a woman with a penis who in fact isn’t a mentally ill man who was born with a cock. Just one.One piece of advice: don’t cite intersex people unless you’re willing to say only intersex people can be trans.
Yes, all of those things you said are transphobic. Excellent demonstration.
Opinion noted and surrender accepted.
k
I mean I gave you a chance to prove me wrong. A woman born with a penis would be a scientific miracle. It would be big news, so why can’t you find even one example?Chin up bro: look how much technology has advanced in the last century. Chances are we will eventually have technology to perform sex changes. As of now we can’t do those.
Good to see rich men who are unbothered by politics, speaking for a whole demographic, hasn’t gone out of style.
Who did Jerry Seinfeld speak for besides himself?
Based on what he’s been doing lately I don’t think Jon is unbothered by politics.
Yet you’ll keep coming back here lol
Forget what the famous Jewish comedians think. I want to hear more about how talking about anti-semitism is now anti-semitic from all the woke white goyim in the comments. People who seem to think that a stand up set should be treated as a TED talk, with the exact same weight and adherence to logic. As if instead of telling jokes the comedian is simply giving an impassioned speech.
The fact that people are so butthurt is more an indictment of cancel culture and the need to take the jokes comedians make as literal. That jokes somehow have the power to change average thinking people into white supremacists or anti-trans activists. It’s preposterous.As someone to the political left of Stalin, I find it both humorous and deeply pathetic that so many people on my side of the political divide are so, well, stupid. All they care about is performing wokeness without actually doing anything. Yelling on Twitter. Bitching in the comments sections on Kinja. Pretending they “always hated” whichever daily celebrity is problematic.It’s no wonder this country has been sliding so far to the Right. The Left is an absolute shitshow of morons with no sense of humor or history. We’ve become the very parody the Right has made us into. Makes me sick.
As if instead of telling jokes the comedian is simply giving an impassioned speech.That’s Chappelle’s whole schtick now. At some point during his specials, he drops the pretension that he’s doing stand-up and just starts preaching. His SNL monologue was funnier than his last special or two, but he still switched into his Very Serious tone towards the end. He literally complained about people laughing at his jokes instead of taking him seriously.So if you’re upset that his stand up sets are being treated as TED Talks, maybe take it up with him.
I couldn’t even get past his whole edgelord cigaratte smoking indoors thing. What a rebel!
As someone clearly to *your* left, you need to go back to reading theory and drop this bullshit “boo hoo the left is why the fascists are coming” bullshit because no one is buying it
Yeah this kid is clearly not left.
“Everyone I disagree with is a fascist, because I’m a fucking child”
I agree with some of this. BUT:1) Assuming folks’ are only performing without doing is an assertion that requires information (whether they “do” as well) you don’t have. 2) By the very logic you present, blaming the leftist commentariat or Twittersphere for converting folks to the political right is exactly as ridiculous as blaming Chappelle for converting folks to the political right.3) Having a problem with or critique of a particular piece of content or its formulation isn’t a call for cancellation.4) Leftist commentators on the AVClub are not fully representative of the American left, and as such, are not necessarily representative of or responsible for the problems with the movement as a whole.
Dave Chappelle’s stand up over the last few years has been TED talks mixed in with what’s left of his humor. Yes some overreact to him but he’s still not some free speech martyr warrior. He’s older and cranky. He did a bit on George Floyd that was insightful but had very little jokes. His stuff on trans people is just preaching. His SNL monologue was 15 minutes long. And his takes are about 50% enlightened and 50% dog shit. I miss when him and Jim Breuer were very funny. Running to defend Kanye and Kyrie is kind of embarrassing. Maybe the upcoming direct to streaming Half Baked 2 will be better off without them.
I always love it when right wing trash pretends to be so far left that they think people are stupid for being appalled by hate speech.
Haha, like ‘left of Stalin’? Like what the fuck does that even mean? Stalin wasn’t a leftist.
“Left of Stalin” was a clear giveaway.
Firstly, the country is moving left, not right, did you not witness this past election cycle where record numbers of young people voted for the left? 18-29 year olds voted for Dems by 63%, that’s a fucking landslide my friend.
Secondly, the only people who spout about wokeness are people obsessed with labeling things woke to pwn the libs in order to avoid discussing their position on real issues that people care about. That’s because the majority of Americans don’t agree with their position on those issues.
Meanwhile, after running on the platforms of high crime and inflation the right immediately went to work today focusing their efforts on helping ordinary Americans by… announcing investigating Hunter Biden.
gary you were supposed to stay in he gray!
I think people are hungry for Dave to be a bigot in other ways than being a TERF (which he said he is). It’s bad enough he’s a bigot to trans people. He’s classist too. They’re trying to hard to make him anti-semitic imo. He’s bad enough already.Also, you’re left of Stalin? Hahaha, that’s leaving a LOT of left wing out there. Dude was fake communist, but actually real fascist.
Using the word “woke” tells me you’re liberal only for the sake of commentary on this site.
No one, absolutely no one, is treating comedy routines like TED talks. When you make an anti-semitic or transphobic “jokes” or comments people are, rightfully, going to push back on that bullshit. And if you think transphobia and anti-semitism are AOK, then we are not and never have been on the same side.
Some of us are Jews giving our opinions, so you can sit right there with your dirtbag left “woke white people” argument.
How dare you denigrate bags of dirt by comparing them to this dipshit.
I’d rather gulag Chappelle.
“to the left of Stalin”?
You’re American, you don’t know what “left” even is.
As a Canadian, from a Democratic Socialist country, its very clear that you’re just a right wing nut; despite what you might think of yourself, or tell people.
Examples:
You hate cancel culture (accountability), you hate “woke” (sympathy for people’s feelings), and you’re obviously anti-trans (culture war invented by the right).
This is exactly why you weirdos will never have universal healthcare, because you F**king hate each other, and somehow feel victimized by everything, all the time. “Y’all” need to start taking care of each other, seriously. Then maybe you can start having nice things.
“Woke white Goyim” – this is what I’m saying, normalize Jews being POC!!
And you managed to work woke (a term that no longer has any meaning) and cancel culture (despite the fact that absolutely nobody has been cancelled) into your whiny little sermon, while pretending to be a leftist. If grown-up discussion is part of your problem, take that up with Dave Chappelle, who has chosen to become a part time lecturer and part time comedian. The world is evolving, champ.. you can evolve too. Or you can sit on your imaginary throne and stupidly try to opine about the non-existent phenomenon of “cancel culture”.
I think the more democrats head toward the left, the more centrist look like they’re on the right.
Ah, good another “real liberal, no seriously, I’m really a liberal, why don’t you believe me?”. Sure, I definitely believe you’re a true liberal and not a conservative concern troll pretending to be liberal to gain credibility while criticizing liberals the exact same way Fox News does.
Lol. Are you a government operative?
“elusive”, not “allusive, Hattie.
Nope. Allude=hint at, elude=evade. Allusive is correct here.
I’m half jew and don’t get worked up over hearing that people think some rich and powerful jews control Hollywood. It’s kind of pride evoking in fact. Good on us if someone who identifies a little like me really do run some shit!Why’s that gotta be negative and “anti-semetic”? Isn’t it ok for jews to be in charge of some shit too?
Seinfeld isn’t the first older-guard comedian to talk to Chappelle in recent daysExcept he didn’t talk TO him at all? what the fuck kind of wording is this
I get what these guys mean with all the dialogue talk, it’s well meaning and seems reasonable on the surface. But I think a problem they have, and the reason they get confused by pushback, is an unwillingness or inability to see that things have degraded substantially compared to even just 10 years ago. So unfortunately society is not in a dialogue moment, it’s in a conflict moment. When people who only speak in bad faith were largely forced to conceal themselves or were pushed to the sidelines, dialogue was viable and effective. But now those bad faith actors are in the open and on the attack, so dialogue is only exploited by them to mask their assault.
Stewart’s right that prejudice cannot be ended by penalty, but without the penalties the dialogue can never happen in the first place. There’s a reason rights have to be affirmed by law and not just social acceptance.
So what penalties should Dave face?And what penalties should Cardi B face for admitting she used to drug and rob men? Since we won’t ever be saying offensive jokes are worse than that.We can penalize both or neither. Decide.
And this offends you as a Jewish person?“No, it offends me as a comedian!”
If Chapelle ever gets Polish citizenship, there’ll be no stopping him!
Say what you will about Seinfeld’s dating practices (and hoo boy, there sure is a lot to say there) but Jerry seems to have a decent head on his shoulders for most other things. I remember seeing a roundtable discussion a while back with him, Louis CK, Chris Rock, and maybe one other comedian. Rock gave Louis permission to say the n-word, or something to that effect, which Louis (of course) gleefully took advantage of. Jerry sat there, visibly uncomfortable, and refused to join in. Again, that doesn’t make him a saint, but I appreciate a white comedian who still has those kinds of (extremely basic, vanilla) boundaries. I think “censorship” isn’t always wrong. Intolerance should not be tolerated. That shouldn’t be a controversial statement. If someone is shouting hateful bullshit on a street corner, you simply stop handing them a megaphone and maybe give people a heads-up to cross to the other side of the street when they walk past there. That’s not censorship, that’s just being a fucking decent human being. There’s absolutely a time and a place for honest and open dialogue about these things, but most of the people who spread hateful ideas aren’t the kind of people who are going to be swayed by a friendly discussion on a given subject. I appreciate the motivation of being peaceful and “better than your enemy” or whatever, but tell that to a trans woman getting beaten up in an alley, or the Jewish people whose synagogue’s been firebombed. Chappelle may only be the tip of the iceberg, but that iceberg’s got some ugly shit going on beneath the surface.
The other guy was Ricky Gervais. So, you know, three stand-up comedians.. and Ricky Gervais.
This is funnier than anything Gervais has ever done.
Respectful dialogue also doesn’t work. You marginalize people who believe stupid things and wait for them to die.
Well, mostly, yeah, but “people who believe stupid things” (or harmful things) aren’t a monolith. Some of them can be diverted and redeemed, to greater or lesser degrees, and I think it’s worth at least some amount of effort to try.
But some people can’t, and yes, those should be marginalized until they change or die.
“a roundtable discussion with him […] Louis CK, Chris Rock, and maybe one other comedian” Correct – ‘maybe a comedian?’ is the perfect descriptor for Ricky Gervais.
The problem with your pro censorship views is that you’re naive enough to think the people deciding what is and is not hateful will always be like you lol.
That’s not censorship, that’s just being a fucking decent human being.Also, freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences, and the First Ammendment only protects a citizen from the Government itself.
Who cares. He is a comedian doing comedy. It does not matter what he says. It can be true, it can be false, it can be horrible, and it can great. It is comedy. Nothing should be taken as full truth or the person’s true beliefs. Even if it is the person’s true beliefs, who cares. People can think how they want to think. Was it funny? that is the only thing you should even care about. Did it make you laugh? were you too dumb to get it? was it just not your humor? was it not mature enough for you? Stop thinking about a comedy show so much and just enjoy it. If you dont think it is funny, then dont watch.
Until Chappelle starts explaining progressives like me to the trumpers, he’s only interested in the same hackneyed conversation that’s been ongoing for more than six years.
I wish I could find it but there was an Israeli study done about how to effectively combat extremism vis a vis their experience with the Palestinians and what it showed was the most effective way to change an extremists mind was to express more extreme ideas than they hold almost to the point of ridiculousness which made them reflect upon their own opinions whereas reasoning and not allowing expression of those ideas actually reinforced their beliefs which is one of those counterintuitive things that makes sense once you actually think about it and is actually born out in reality.
Considering that Israel is committing apartheid against the Palestinians I’m not sure they’re the best source on this
This was done by a university there not a government study and it was about both sides.
I’m not saying that Seinfeld and Stewart don’t have interesting things to say on this subject (or a right to speak to it), but these are rich dudes who happen to be friends with Chappelle. I’d actually be more interested to hear from someone like, say, Rachel Bloom, who is Jewish, a comedian, and someone who has actually made LGBTQ+ inclusive shows. She’s also less “establishment” than these guys, which would give a different perspective.
Translation: you’d rather hear from someone with views that align with yours that you hope will trash Chappelle
That’s not at all what I said, but congrats on the dogshit reading comprehension and/or kneejerk tribalism. Actually, I can imagine Bloom siding with Chappelle, even if I think that’s the less likely option. But I’d still be interested in hearing her opinion.
Seinfeld is jewish comedian. According to you the only difference between him and Bloom is she has LGBT inclusive shows.What does the LGBT community have to do with his comments on Jewish people?
I actually also pointed out the differences that he (along with Stewart) is rich, older, a dude, friends with Chappelle, and also more entrenched in the comedy establishment. Yes, both Seinfeld and Bloom are Jewish, which means they both have skin in the game with regards to anti-semitism in comedy. But all these differences mean that Bloom has, potentially, a different take to Seinfeld and Stewart, that would be interesting. And Bloom’s positive history with LGBTQ+ storytelling is relevant because Chappelle is also a transphobe, and when someone shows bigotry in one area in can shed light on bigotry in another.Learn to read.
He’s not a transphobe, and if the issue is anti-semitism then the LGBT community has nothing to do with this.
I would imagine this was a very delicate one for Jerry to deal with, he’s been one of the more prominent voices lamenting how he can’t perform at colleges (or basically for anyone under 50 now) because audiences don’t like comedy which mocks various groups but then one of his allies attacks Jerry’s people…I wonder if this is how Lindsey Graham came to be?
And that is exactly why it was pertinent to ask Seinfeld about this.
Well, Jon said it all. A lot of members of the Jewish community have a lot of weight in Hollywood, as do other members of other communities in other venues. It’s only rational to be aware of it and for them to be sensitive. A minority can be the mayority in some venue, so it’s only fair to switch mindsets accordingly to create fair yet free environments everywhere
The right kind of dialogue is finally telling Dave Chappelle to shut the fuck up.
Or just talk about Black folks! He was doing fine when that was his whole thing
Spoken like a true white supremacist.
It’s a big deal. He had broken the showbusiness rules. You know, the rules of perception. If they’re Black, then it’s a gang. If they’re Italian, it’s a mob, but if they’re Jewish, it’s a coincidence and you should never speak about it.[…] I’ve been to Hollywood. And I don’t want y’all to get mad at me, I’m just telling you this is just what I saw. It’s a lot of Jews. Like a lot. But that doesn’t mean anything, you know what I mean? There’s a lot of Black people in Ferguson, Missouri. It doesn’t mean we run the place. I would see if you had some kind of issue, you might go out to Hollywood, you might start connecting some kind of lines, and you could maybe adopt the delusion that the Jews run showbusiness. It’s not a crazy thing to think. But it’s a crazy thing to say out loud in a climate like this.— Dave Chappelle TL;DR – Chappelle tried to make justifications for antisemitism being somewhat plausible on the surface, in order to explain Kanye’s statements, but only superficially showed why said justifications are not only implausible, but dangerous.———————————————————————————[I’m just a goy who’s fascinated by history, so caveat emptor, and corrections are welcome as always.]This was a missed opportunity on Chappelle’s part to educate, which is too bad because his later material tends to be more didactic than funny.The first paragraph is just dumb. Jewish organized crime was/is very much a thing. Applying that label to legitimate professionals — particularly those in entertainment, banking, law, etc… — is fucked up.As for Jewish representation in Hollywood, it makes perfect sense if you know the history of the place: LA was shown in the early 20th century to be a good location for filming: it featured varied biomes (forests, mountains, deserts, beaches, etc…) and stable, warm weather; it also happened to be out of reach of Edison’s costly patents on film technology (which actually violated the Lumière brothers’ patents, but those were unenforceable in the US).A ton of New York entrepreneurs moved to LA to invest in moviemaking — some of whom happened to be Jewish — and founded the first major studios. That’s the bulk of the story.As to why Jewish entrepreneurs exist in the first place? It’s a long story, but the short version is that Jewish people were excluded from most of European society for… a few centuries short of 2000 years, and had to resort to entrepreneurship to survive. (And subsistence farming, but land was often confiscated, so that was a less stable option.)What antisemites see as a conspiracy featured no collusion and was born out of necessity. There’s nothing sinister about it — just a community trying to survive the best way they can, and some of them finding success (with most other members remaining poor, as one would expect).
Jerry Seinfeld has gently said his piece on the matter—by saying very little at all. Ssssso…why write about it?
They do it so they have another excuse to whine about Dave Chappelle.
For the clicks, baby!
I don’t know why you’d expect anything else from Seinfeld. He’s friends with Chappelle. Also, was Dave anti-Semitic? No, he was just talking about it. He’s a TERF, and that’s bad enough imo.
Hey, not a big deal, not trying to single you out, but you forgot to add a gratuitous reference to how he dated a 17-year-old girl 30 years ago, and also didn’t have black people on his web series until the 8th episode.
Here’s what Dave’s SNL set that talks about antisemitism DIDN’T spark – actual antisemitism.
There’s simply nothing there to make one go, “You know what? I hate the Jews!”.
No different than Jon Stewart doing the same thing on Steven Colbert’s show. **ahem**
So last year, Dave insulted transgender people. Then during his summer shows(where no cameras were allowed) he called gay men “f*gs.” Now he’s telling people that they can think anti-semitic thoughts but just not say them. When exactly are people just going to concede that Dave has some prejudices here?
When asked about his opinion, Seinfeld replied, “If someone asks me, ‘which direction is Israel,’ I don’t go flying off the handle.”
A lot of complaining over nothing IMO.
calling for “dialogue” in response to anti-semitism smacks of “when they go low we go high”–it’s a lofty and admirable aspiration but *right now* isn’t the best time given how hyper-polarized the country; there isn’t anyone I can think of to “mediate” this “dialogue”; and more importantly, over the last 5-6 years about a third of the country has been told (after years of being shamed into their basements) that it’s fine to wallow to anti-semitism, and in fact the ones doing the shaming are wrong, so what do you do about that particular genie once it has left the bottle?
Has anyone tried not listening to or watching content they don’t like? Works for me. The White Woke power structure would rather tear down a Black man’s career than just ignore him.
Antisemitism and politics aren’t really Jerry’s schtick. He does things like socks escaping the laundry.
The straight forward response:The “Nation of Islam” and the “Black Hebrews” are cult-like organizations that put out and promote fake history that has the aim of making people hate Jews. In particular Jews were a small fraction of merchants and a small fraction of Jews were merchants. Interestingly, Black Hebrews are one of the few instances of actual “cultural appropriation” because they pretend that they, and all blacks are the actual Jews. Both these organizations are deeply racist.Jews have kept their culture intact through 2500 years of genocide, ethnocide, constant prejudice. This allows them, on average, to have high performance in an open economy. Thus, many Jews founded key industry, outperform in the sciences and the arts. So, there are many Jews across Hollywood, but Jews don’t “control” Hollywood. There is no secret group of Jews who decide what Jews do. There are simple a number of individuals who have invented or worked their way into high positions — and almost always despite intense racism, prejudice and quotas.
they have points about conversation, but they have forgotten that there are a lot of people that don’t want to listen or understand and many of us cannot be bothered to try to talk to them anymore.
Seinfeld’s response was very interesting and telling. It sure sounded like he wanted to heavily criticize Chappelle but then didn’t want to get into it. I believe he’s been one of those comics in the past complaining about cancel culture, and this felt like him not wanting to criticize Chappelle because he didn’t want to come off as part of cancel culture.
As for Stewart, man, it’s amazing what a little friend bias can do. There’s no censorship here. There are famous people doing and saying antisemitic things, and then the public (or at least the reasonable portion of it) calling them out for being antisemitic. The NBA choosing to actually enforce a penalty so they don’t look bad isn’t censorship. Irving flouted the outcry for a while. He held a press conference giving smug non-answers and not admitting to doing anything wrong. Then all of a sudden, there are actual consequences, and he changes his tune. To me, that’s a beautiful thing. They had the power to make him stop being a smug baby, and they did it.