While doing the press rounds to promote the Chinese release of F9 (aka Fast & Furious 9), John Cena made a big ol’ whoopsie: During his interview with TVBS—a Taiwanese newscast—Cena referred to Taiwan as a country. That might seem like your garden variety slip-up rooted in Western ignorance, but it’s actually a pretty unfortunate mistake to make, especially on TV in China. Cena quickly attempted to turn the situation around by hopping on popular Chinese social media platform Weibo, where he delivered an apology in Mandarin, according to The Hill. Sidestepping specifics, Cena admitted he “made a mistake,” and said it’s “very, very, very, very important I love, and respect even more, China and the Chinese people.”
Quick background: Taiwan, or the Republic Of China, was democratized in the ’90s and has claimed independence ever since. The People’s Republic Of China refuses to acknowledge Taiwan’s independence or status as a democratic country, and has refused to engage diplomatically with countries that recognize Taiwan as the Republic Of China. The US has a complicated relationship with the PRC, which is set to surpass the US as the largest global economy within the next several years. For the sake of this particular situation, it’s also important to note that China is the largest contributor to the global box office—and the Fast & Furious franchise is very popular over there.
Cena’s apology is the sort of vague response that’s meant to please no one and everyone at the same time, but some folks weren’t buying it on either side of of the political divide. Commentator Keith Olbermann called Cena’s apology “shameful”
People on the right were, as you might expect, also mad—but not for particularly good or smart reasons. (It’s mostly a lot of “SEE? Celebs are hypocrites!”) The one thing everyone seems to agree on is that the apology sucks and shouldn’t have happened.
158 Comments
Well what did they expect from him? He’s a bad man.
When I first saw this, I honestly couldn’t help but laugh. Not just because Cena apologized, in Mandarin at that, but because China is so sensitive about Taiwan that just calling it a country gets them super pissed. Like, not even an independent country, just a country.
From a social-evolutionary standpoint, aggressively trying to control as much territory, population, and resources as possible is a sound survival strategy. Even though Taiwan’s population is only in the range of ~23 million, which is smaller than the Shanghai metro area, China doesn’t want a sizable island just off its coast to be under anyone’s control but theirs. My understanding is that the people of Taiwan generally do not want reunification, although a surprisingly large percentage are fine with the status quo and don’t want to push for more independence and international recognition than they already have.It’ll be interesting if that changes and the desire for independence and recognition becomes overwhelmingly popular, because then China will have the problem of violating the principle of self-determination.
It also goes back to when Taiwan was founded. They willing left and China let them go. Now decades later they’re backtracking on that and Taiwan is understandably annoyed.
Well, when Taiwan was founded, it was founded as the “true” seat of the government of China, so you can understand why China is still prickly about that. And in that regard, in Cena’s sort of defense, he’s (accidentally) right about “one China.” The Taiwanese also thins there’s only one China, and they’re the head of it.
Actually, the legitimate government of the Republic of China at the time, 1949, retreated into self-exile to Taiwan, a Japanese colony liberated after WWII, after the Nationalist troops lost the Chinese civil war to the Communist troops. Taiwan had been populated for hundreds of years by peoples and tribes that originated from the South Pacific, and by Chinese from eastern coastal provinces, but it wasn’t “Chinese” territory, and before the anti-Communists moved there between 1945 and 1949, it was ruled by the Japanese. The Communists took over mainland China in 1949, and for the past 72 years, the Commies claim Taiwan belongs to China, while for forty-plus years the Republic of China government in Taiwan claimed it was the legitimate government of China and that it would one day go back to rule a liberated, free China.In the past 30 years, however, Taiwan and its people have started to get rid of this political legacy imposed on them, want nothing to do with corrupt China, and have further developed their own culture and identity. Taiwan has become a prime example of what an ethnically-Chinese free nation can be, and is basically an independent country with its own democratically-elected government, its own currency, its own economy, etc. Unfortunately, China has the political clout and power, the friends it buys with money, and the world’s largest army, and shame that the world has been ignoring Taiwan all this time while siding with a mass-murdering regime because money.
Yes, I when I said “Taiwan was founded” I meant the Republic of China fleeing to Taiwan.My parents, who were born in China to and fled Taiwan in 1948, have always and still view Taiwan as its own country. But many of their generation still view Taiwan as the seat of the rightful Chinese government (even though they know they’re out of step with more modern Taiwanese), hate that Nixon recognized the PROC which basically ousted Taiwan from the UN, and have no love for mainland China.Unfortunately, their anti-China stance has led to them turning into Trump supporters somehow. Though i suppose it’s not that much of a stretch that someone who still views Chiang Kai Shek so favorably wouldn’t mind Trump so much.
It was… difficult watching so many of my Taiwanese friends turn into avid Trump supporters this election cycle. I think the Taiwanese media has a lot to answer on this – over the course of Trump’s term in office they seemed to go from ‘He’s crazy but hey, at least he’s sticking up for us,’ to ‘Trump is the only US President who can save Taiwan and Biden is gonna sell us all out the second he gets in office!!!!’
God my mom has been saying the same thing for four years. That’s how she talked herself into voting for Trump, and that’s what kept her supporting him for four years, despite all the evidence that he’d just roll over for China. It was boggled my mind how someone who fled an authoritarian government could so easily convince themselves to follow a wannabe authoritarian. But that was her one issue. That, and hating Hillary.
That’s….certainly one way of describing the end of the Chinese Civil War….
Haha, no.They neither “willingly left” nor did China “let them go”.
If you want to get technical about it, the Chinese civil war never ended becuase both the Republic of China (Taiwan) and the People’s Repuplic of China claim to be sole legitimate government of the whole thing. I think in practice the ROC more or less admitted that it has no claim to mainland China while the PRC has been more steadfast in their claims but there was definitely never a mutually agreed upon split.
Not so much that China let them go as much as China had no ability to do anything about it for a very long time. The “Million Man Swim” still is unlikely even with China’s new navy around. Taiwan is of no value to China in ruins, so bombarding it from a distance is a no-go.
Ah, you must not have heard of “cutting the nose to spite the face”…?China is slowly destroying Hong Kong just because it can. Taiwan should watch closely, because China’s next target is Taiwan. I do not advocate for war, but the Commies are murdering bastards. The world should stop siding with China and support Taiwan, a country that threatens no one.
I agree with your sentiment 100%. But China is slowly destroying Hong Kong through corruption and incompetence in running a free marking, because it has access to it intact. Literally just handed over to them without a shot fired. China has continuously been belligerent to Taiwan. The first plane ever shot down with a missile was Chinese, by Taiwan, in 1958. Its either “million man swim” and take Taiwan intact, or there is no value to the actions.
Not really. The U.S. Navy kinda put a dent in mainland plans to invade.
But China has millions of rockets that can destroy naval vessels easily.
“China will have the problem of violating the principle of self-determination.”You really think China sees that as a big problem?
Well, not in general. Although they’ll have a tougher time with it (at the UN, mainly) when it comes to a relatively independent economic powerhouse that does a lot of trade with Western countries (like Taiwan) as opposed to an oppressed minority of brown people with no real independence (like Uighurs) that the West only knows about because of the efforts of human-rights advocates.
That’s the only thing that’s held them back thus far. As they become an even larger economic powerhouse, and they figure out that no one’s likely to intervene militarily, then all bets are off.
China has no ability to storm the shores of Taiwan without getting pulped in the process. Their navy is sizable these days but outclassed by potential adversaries. Taiwan is an economic powerhouse. Pounding it to rubble with long range missiles/artillery/naval bombardment destroys its value as a target.
China does as China does best and roots out the dissent, making it quietly disappear while everyone else falls in line.
Yet they have a long history of failing at it miserably when outside their borders. AFAIK, modern China has never won a conflict where people actually shot back. Also attacking Taiwan directly brings the attention of countries that they can’t really contend with.
cf. the reasons that the Cold War U.S. could not let even a small peasant society on the other side of the planet get anywhere close to thriving under a socialist development model.
Your understanding of Taiwanese sentiment is partially correct, but the part that’s missing is important: the vast majority of Taiwanese people absolutely want independence, but the fear of reprisal from China mutes expressions of that desire to varying degrees.Also, China would violate the principle of self-determination in a heartbeat if they thought it was gonna allow Taiwan to declare independence.
Yeah… it’s probably a matter of how much blowback they think they’re going to get from the West. If the U.S. and Europe stand firm on a “you better not invade Taiwan” position (and I don’t think that’s likely) then they might grumble but wouldn’t risk losing access to huge world markets just to get control of Taiwan.But like I said, it’s probably not likely. All signs point to the PRC eventually regaining control of Taiwan, and probably not in a friendly way.
They’ve been testing Biden on this and so far he’s passed – he seems fairly committed, and there’s been talk of a US military pivot to the Pacific for a while, and support for Taiwan is a bipartisan issue, so I’m cautiously optimistic. Whether they’d actually risk a conflict with China is another matter though, yeah.
I’m not sure there’s any situation where China would allow an outright declaration of independence without military intervention, but as far as keeping the status quo goes, that’s all true. The problem here is that the CCP, being egotistical tyrants, have staked a lot of their reputation on getting Taiwan “back” and are worried about showing weakness – if they allow Taiwan to declare independence then Tibet, Xinjiang and Hong Kong are going to want the same.On the flip side, for the same reason they know that trying to take Taiwan by military force is a huge gamble – despite the apparent lopsidedness of things, most analyses show that invading and holding Taiwan would be insanely tricky and they risk losing face if it’s unsuccessful. It wouldn’t even necessarily need to be a US/Europe-sized intervention, if even someone like Japan were allowed to assist Taiwan it would throw a massive wrench in their invasion plans. So it’s probably something they’d only do as a last resort.
But like I said, it’s probably not likely. All signs point to the PRC eventually regaining control of Taiwan, and probably not in a friendly way.For example, if Russia invaded Eastern Ukraine, and took over the Crimean peninsula?I’m sure the US would do something to stop that.
Well, the expression is “NOT one inch less”. If Taiwan, a territory claimed by China since 1949 (despite China never having ruled Taiwan ever), gets to do what it wishes, including becoming a free country, then what’s there to stop other territories in China from doing the same? Tibet, East Turkestan (aka Xinjiang), Qinghai, Inner Mongolia, Hong Kong, even Macau, could all decide to go the independent route. That’s why China rules with an iron fist, with the threat of military violence, lack of basic freedoms, and actual ethnic cleansing and genocide to rein in the masses.Fuck the Chinese Communist Party!
China doesn’t want any part of the world to be under anyone’s control but theirs.
In China’s mind, both John Cena and Taiwan are invisible.
Take my damn star…that you clearly deserve.
“You can’t see me, China!”—John Cena and Taiwan
“You can’t see me, China!”Sarah Palin is confused
WIN.
Fascinating article in the NYT about severe global reduction in birth rate (even before the current Covid pandemic), that pegs China’s population going from 1.4 billion to 740 million by the end of this century. Guess they just lickin’ they chops to get some of that sweet population around them to prop up their declining population!
I mean, a large part of that is due to laws in China. Due to overpopulation, they eventually mandated that families can have no more than two children. Used to be after having two children, women were forced to be sterilized, but I think they’ve gotten rid of that rule.
Indeed, but the article expands on the issue as being a far bigger global problem..and how reduced birth rates, even in highly developing countries like the PRC (that may have had restrictions in the past) are plummeting, for a variety of reasons, just sayin.
The Communists (and hence their population) are so uptight about Taiwan, that you’d think they were equals in either military or population. You also see these apologies come from Korean or Japanese stars when they say anything remotely to the effect that Taiwan is not China (it’s not). Hell, even Taiwanese stars have had to backtrack statements to avoid having that revenue stream cut off.
On a side note, John Cena’s Mandarin has improved since I first saw him trying a year or so(?) ago. He knows where he needs to collect the checks.
Got to give him credit, he knows where his bread is buttered. If going to sell out a whole country, might as well do it for mega buck from a movie that he likely has back end points on (which can be worth millions to his bank account).To China – Taiwan is a country by every definition of the word. Your pathetic ego problems from your various dear leaders doesn’t change that.
Fuck the CCP.
Taiwan is a country.
Fuck you John Xina.
Fuck, so much keyboard bravery, I can’t handle it!
Fuck off bot. Hope you earned your social credits.
Mate, you’re the one posting like a bot.
Mate, you’re the one standing up for an authoritarian dictatorship that puts Muslims into camps where they brainwash and sterilize men, women, and children.
China has to be fighting a losing censorship battle right? Even if the majority of the population sides with the Chinese government, most of them have to at least have seen leaks and things from the “free” side of the internet
Imagine how many people only get their news from Facebook or Twitter without bothering to look anything up on their own to verify the information. Now imagine that was all state controlled.
That’s true. I continually forget how stupid people are.
You should never, ever underestimate the stupidity of people.
Check y’self, foole!
If my kids learn anything from me…my mantra is People Are Dumb.
/imagines how many people only get their news from Facebook or Twitter
without bothering to look anything up on their own to verify the
information and then imagines that was all state controlled
Now imagine dragons. Imagine what it would sound like if dragons tried to play modern instruments. That’s exactly how bad Imagine Dragons sounds.
Don’t tell me what to do!
For British readers: Imagine Dragons = Muse
The irony is that China is upset about something that the Chinese people would never be allowed to see anyway.
People are stupid, but it at least has to be getting much harder to control information to the degree they want to.
In America, people are stupid in all different directions. In China, the government would like them to all be stupid in the same direction.
the vast, vast majority of chinese people have never seen the other side, since the free side of the internet requires VPN connections, which are illegal (and while not impossible to get, are not something the average user is going to risk seeking out.)
of those who have seen it, my interaction is that the response is largely apathy- as long as it doesn’t affect their day to day life, there is no reason to rock the boat or get worked up about it. which is realistically how most people anywhere work. especially when you consider the sort of person who is likely to regularly have VPN access and outside communication is the sort of upper middle class person who has the least to gain and most to lose by rocking said boat
Yeah. If you establish that “you aren’t allowed to discuss this” most people just won’t. People as a whole tend to not want to rock the boat if they have relatively stable lives. They might know, but there’s so much risk in letting anyone know they know or doing anything about it they put on their blinders and just try to get through their day.
So long as they could keep their economic class, the vast majority of Americans would have zero problem living under a dictatorship like China. If they don’t care about the American government killing people of color, they’re not going to care about the Chinese brutalizing the Uighurs.
White is a color
This isn’t really about censorship.Nor is this particular battle a losing one.Chinese people know that Taiwan exists. They aren’t trying to prevent their citizens from having knowledge about the island.What this is about is respect/face. The Chinese government is trying to insist that Taiwan is merely a breakaway bunch of rebels who will be folded back into the motherland eventually. And so calling them anything but that is, to the Chinese government, a sign of disrespect toward the sovereignty and integrity of China as a refusal to accommodate their preferences.Whigh, generally, most Chinese nationals support on a patriotic level. Probably even more vociferously than their leadership, to be honest. Since the leadership are mostly old and cynical enough to not really give a shit while the people are young and hot-headed enough to be actually swayed by nationalistic idealism.
That’s the most sensible comment on here.
From what I understand, there’s an app in China that is a combination of Facebook, Instagram, Venmo, Apple Pay, and every other convenient social function all in one. And to no one’s surprise, it’s controlled by the Chinese government. So anything you post on social media, or DM to your friends, or buy with these extremely convenient apps, or watch on a shared video service, is monitored by the state. And pretty much everyone knows that, and still uses it because it’s extremely convenient (or conversely, not using it is extremely inconvenient).
Knowing things like this, I don’t think the average person China has any realistic way of breaking through the government’s stranglehold of media to get through to the “free” side of the internet.
Absolute and total control over information isn’t necessary. It’s easy to get around China’s Great Firewall, but it takes just enough time and money that most people in China don’t bother.They also have an army of people online posting propaganda and changing the subject when uncomfortable subjects come up. That along with the usual censorship seems to be enough to work.The image in the 90s of the internet as a space of freedom and exchange of ideas that would usher the world towards liberal democracy was an illusion.
Agreed. If anything, the Internet has pushed any controlling government to limit information as much as possible because of this original concept.
No. While there are people who leave and recognize how bad the CCP is, there are vastly more Chinese people that have been indoctrinated enough to still believe in their BS.
I would not at all be surprised; even North Koreans are able to get digital media smuggled-in, China’s probably a cakewalk, especially since they’re trying to secure such a large amount of infrastructure. Can’t be easy to plug all the leaks and get rid of all the backdoors and loopholes.
The Chinese Police went to arrest Cena in his hotel room, but they couldn’t see him.
the PRC, which is set to surpass the US as the largest global economy within the next several years.That depends on who you ask.https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/china-expected-to-surpass-us-economy-in-2028-analysis/ar-BB1cfsIH
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/china-wont-overtake-us-as-worlds-largest-economy-forecast/ar-BB1dPU8wChina has a host of economic problems stemming from an aging population and a lack of dynamism, so they may never overtake the US.
I don’t think they need to surpass us right away (I think they will by the way, unless the US is able to keep recovery from covid on track and super charge its economic recovery without sparking inflation). They just need to generate enough economic pull to dictate the content and messaging of our entertainment, bully regional players and traditional US allies into submission, and continue to aggressively invest in sustainable energy sources and developing nations while we turn inward and double down on coal and other finite non-renewables. Before the election of Donald Trump, I would have clocked China to surpass us certainly within my life time, somewhere between 2035 and 2050, with an outside chance that we could fend them off. After Trump, I’d adjust that to 2030. If one of the nation’s two political parties continues to be hellbent on national self-destruction, and they’re able to deny the will of the majority of the population in the next couple election cycles, I’d say we need to be prepared for a near-term world where the US no longer calls all the shots.
You’re right about China’s investments in renewables and developing nations. They’re also investing heavily in surveillance technology, which there is a huge market for internally and with their authoritarian allies.
You’re also right about a lot depending on how the US economy recovers and whether Team Red doubles down on populist idiocy.But by 2050, China will have more retirees than workers, and you can’t sustain a growing economy like that. We’ll see what kind of dividends their belts & ports project pays off when the developed world moves its manufacturing centers to Africa and South America.
Honestly, China isn’t the problem.All the supposedly “free” countries taking copious notes, however, is what keeps me up at night.
I think we’ll run into the same challenge re: retiring workers, no? US birthrates are cratering, and it’s difficult to see the nation (in this worsening political climate) throwing its doors open to welcome the immigrant workers.
Well, we’re asking you, Madptarmigan.
The moment China declares war or decides to invade Taiwan, all those dubiously optimistic economic miracle and power claims will disappear in seconds. As if the world will side with the mass-murdering war-mongering dictatorship.
Do they have to “side with” them? A better question is will they condemn them and proceed to do nothing about it. My money is on the latter.
You’re right. Most nations will do the pragmatic thing and not get involved even though real neutrality doesn’t really exist in a world seen in black and white (especially by China). I guess in geopolitics the big players can’t NOT get involved, in this case, the USA, the UK, Japan, Australia, and any country that has been targeted by China with economic and diplomatic retaliation.
I had strong feelings about this, but now that the guy from “Bumblebee” has weighed in, I don’t know what to think.
I wonder what Megan Fox thinks?
What does the fox say?
um…“Sha-zooo”?
What does Bumblebee think? As an alien robot who often likes to pretend to be a German automobile, he is the perfect neutral party to arbitrate between the PRC and ROC.
He thinks “I love you, Spike!”
Bumblebee has remained silent because no pop song has been written that really captures the nuance of Taiwan’s relationship with China.
Those shitty FF movies need all the money from China they can get so Johnny boy kissed their ass. Imagine if he would have done this after Suicide Squad movie, DC/WB would be getting buried right now. We need to bury his shitty production company that makes those awful Fast and Furious movies that probably made him say he was sorry.
“After getting a call from an angry studio executive who was shouting at me about the global box office, I have determined that my previous statement was unacceptable.”
The irony of modern history is incredible. 70 years ago, every capitalist country was terrified of China because of Communism. Turns out China scares them way more under market capitalism.“We have to appease the CCP or else…they’ll ban our movie and cut off a chunk of our box office gross!”
V.I. Lenin is smiling in his grave.
They will sell us the film print with which we will hang them at the box office.
Or stop making our electronic gear and sneakers!
If he’d included this in his actual statement it would have been pretty great.
I doubt that John Cena has any sort of strong convictions about Taiwan either way and probably barely knew there was a conflict about it and just offhandedly called it a “country” because that’s a normal thing to do when not watching your ass for what will or won’t affect the CCP.
The guy speaks Mandarin and is on a business junket in China, he probably knows as much about China as you do. He slipped up and told the truth; it could happen to anyone.
100%. Which is why instead of kissing china’s arse, his “apology” should’ve just been “Don’t know much about History. Don’t know much Geooo-graphy. (Sorry if anyone was offended.)“
Hit the nail on the head.
Like so many other things in this country, this is all Nixon’s fault.
Man working for global conglomerate attempts to salvage upset pockets situation
Well, much like my early decision to not hop on the Harry Potter train I’m feeling pretty ok with the fact I never spent any time in the Fast and Furious universe.
The FF franchise is probably my biggest pop culture blind spot. I never specifically avoided seeing any of them, I just never have, despite liking some of the actors involved. Frankly, knowing nothing about them makes all of the ridiculous news stories about the franchise (Feuds! Contract clauses about who can get punched how many times! The bizarre chronology of the series!) much more entertaining.
My go to for blindspot is the Marvel movies, but I’ve actually watched 2.25 of those whereas I don’t think I’ve seen any of a FF movie, not even the trailers. It is pretty amusing the veneration they inspire. I just have so many other movies I’d rather give two hours up for, and never enough time, so sacrifices have to be made.
Same here, though I’d decided some time ago to just watch ‘em all in order (not all in a row, just whenever) and have gotten through the first 3 so far. They are aggressively stupid but at the same time manage to have just enough charm to stay afloat. (Tokyo Drift in particular, which I nearly turned off before it actually got to the Tokyo part). In a way it is kind of amazing how the series evolved from something relatively low-key (if meat-headed) into what it’s become.Anyway the studio probably sent a couple of goons to Cena’s house to get him to do the apology.
After Tokyo Drift, they really fell into a trap of having to constantly exceed themselves or risk losing the audience.
It’s astounding that the movies have gotten more successful (monetarily) the more outlandish they’ve become, with the focus moving from any semblance of street racing or small-scale crime to global terrorism, black-ops intelligence agencies, cybernetically-enhanced super soldiers, and making almost every national government look incompetent to the point of anarchy.
I saw the first 3 in theaters. After that, I’ve seen snippets of the rest but never a full movie, a certainly not for the price of a movie ticket.
Which is interesting, because I love cars and I don’t need much to compel me to watch something about cars I wish I could own but perhaps never will. Unfortunately, it’s everything else surrounding the cars that takes me out of the movie.
Where the originals and movies like Gone in 60 Seconds got it right was streamlining all of the unnecessary dramatic elements and getting to the source of why people want to see the movies: expensive, out-of-reach cars doing insane things. The moment you start adding this overarching narrative and bringing characters back from the dead, you begin straining the credulity of a series that began with an undercover officer investigating a car/electronics theft ring led by a notorious street racer.
But hey, these movies make billions and in the end, so long as the tickets get sold, they aren’t trying to win Oscars after-all.
The thing about the FF franchise is that I may have seen all of them, or one of them.
I saw the first one in the theater, genuinely enjoyed it, and then proceeded to never even give seeing another one – in a theater on at home – a second thought.I can’t think of any other franchise where that happened.
Mate the new Fast And The Furious film is so great it caused all of my friends to leave because of how boring it was and how pointless it is.
Hmmm, now I’m rethinking things. Usually when a movie is described like that I enjoy it.
He’s in “good” company, even big name vtubers have been forced to apologize in regards to the whole Taiwan debacle.
Shameful and embarrassing.I note that it is overstating it to say the RoC has claimed independence, and certainly not in the ‘90’s. The question of independence is one that most political parties in the RoC have danced around since democratization. Even President Chen Shui-ban, a vocal supporter of independence earlier in his career, never AFAIK made any official proclamation of independence during his term, and when the KMT took power back, they explicitly stated that the relationship between the RoC and the PRC is not a relationship between two seaprate states. (Which was reaffirmed by President Tsai when she took the reins back for the Democratic Progressive Party.)
Yeah but they are defacto independent and everyone knows it. They haven’t officially declared it for the same reason why Cena apologized and the US tap dances around the entire issue; the economic and political status quo is working pretty well and it’s far preferable to really pissing off china and all the various risks (political, economic, military, cyber etc.) that would entail.
Right, but theoretically they don’t claim to be independent, they claim to be the rightful government of all of China (Taiwan/ROC was founded by Mao’s rival Chiang Kai-shek). In practice, that’s rather unlikely, but amusingly the PRC actually prefers ROC politicans to claim that they will eventually overthrow Communism rather than just say “Okay, you have the big country on the mainland and we’ll have this island”.
Its a fascinating topic, becuase technically they’re both right, in the sense that there’s never been an event or a treaty that caused Taiwan to become a separate state. There is the argument that Japan ceded Taiwan at the end of WWII without ceding it to China, which in turn could lead to the creation of a new state. But that doesn’t work becuase the ROC never claimed to be the legitimate government of a new state. Legally as far as I can tell there’s really not much argument that these are two separate states. In practice it’s pretty obvious, so the status quo is ends up being when you think too much about the contrast between the two. At some point I think Taiwan could decide to make a declaration of independence and since it’s obvious that they’re already a de facto independent state it would only be a matter of whether other nations would recognize them or not. It also reminds me of the reunification process between West and East Germany, which took quite a while to become official even though it seemed like a forgone conclusion shortly after the berlin wall, simply becuase the legal scholars had to figure out to make it all legal on paper. IIRC East Germany had to actually amend their constitution first becuase it formally claimed to govern all of Germany and forbade recognition of any other Governmental authority over any part of Germany, so it technically didn’t allow East Germany to even negotiate reunification with West Germany.
The current government of Taiwan wants nothing to do with China, and the people of Taiwan are tired of the ROC (actually founded by Dr Sun Yat-sen back in the early 1900s) and its ridiculous claim it still remains the legitimate government of China. China, which has NEVER ruled Taiwan and has an equally ridiculous claim that it’s always been a part of China, will never let Taiwan be in peace, because other Chinese territories might just get the same idea. Tibet, Xinjiang (East Turkestan), Inner Mongolia, Hong Kong might all want to be their own countries too. Who wants to be ruled by a mass-murdering illegitimate regime?
the ROC (actually founded by Dr Sun Yat-sen back in the early 1900s)Only in the sense that you could argue that the PRC was also founded by Sun Yat-sen Or by Emperor Qin for that matter. The argument is about who is the legitimate heir to these people — they are honored in both places, even though the ROC despises Mao and the PRC despises Chiang Kai-shek. Interesting enough, the weird pseudo-military costume often called a “Mao suit” in the West (because Mao was seen to often wear it) is officially called “Zhongshan suit” even in the PRC because theoretically Sun Yat-sen invented it.
I’d say the Chinese Communist Party was founded in 1921, just ten years after the ROC began to rule China after the last emperor was deposed, and not say that Dr Sun had anything to do with the CCP’s founding, but I’m not very familiar with Sun’s view on the CCP and its policies. He didn’t live long enough to see the the civil war and Mao’s destructive policies.
Indeed. But the situation is somewhat more complex than the article makes it out to be.
The chanting smark crowds were right all along! “Cena Sucks!”
The changing layout of the site usually sucks but I like that this and Mark Ruffalo’s apology are right next to each other
If I was a celebrity these are probably the #1 and 2 foreign relations issues I would not touch with a ten foot pole. It’s literally impossible to say anything about either one without pissing someone off. Even if you do have a considered, rational thought to share on the subject, how would you communicate that thought in such a way that it won’t get taken out of context or twisted one way or another? You might as well start discussing religion or abortion!
But then how else would they get covered by the AV Club ??
Ooh! Fun!!! Now ask the wrestler/actor his opinion on Tibet!
“ That might seem like your garden variety slip-up rooted in Western ignorance”
I can’t tell if you’re being serious here but he’s, you know, right. Or at least, more right than not – the only reason Taiwan isn’t considered a country is because China doesn’t want them to be. That’s certainly not Western ignorance by Cena.
“I love, and respect even more, China and the Chinese people.”
the ones on the mainland that is. The ones that are financing his movies. Because whether you like it or not the people in Taiwan are Chinese too… And quite determined that they are, indeed, a country.
Taiwanese identity is a thing. More and more people in Taiwan just say “I’m Taiwanese” the same way people in Hong Kong say “I’m a Hongkonger”. China is doing its best to destroy these identities. When China remains ruled by a mass-murdering illegitimate regime… no one wants a part of that.
Actually the people in Taiwan are Taiwanese, not Chinese, just as I am American, not English, despite my having relatives that once came to America from England.
Well, as long as he also apologizes to Taiwan for apologizing for calling them a country, then I’m good with this.
Taiwan doesn’t claim to be independent. They claim that they are the actual government of China and the PRC is illegitimately occupying the mainland. For a long time the US and UN agreed with them.They’ve been functionally independent since 1948, not just the ‘90s.
At first I wanted to scoff at this and think I would never apologize for such a silly slip… Then I remember how much Hollywood seems to be controlled by the chinese market and has been for years. Then I think that I would probably apologize to my overly sensitive, paranoid, hostile employer if I pissed them off too. At least he didn’t mention Tibet!
The amount of china buttkissing from the left is truly awful. They are fascists and Taiwan is a country, a free one. Something that right thinking people used to back.
Are you absolutely sure its coming from the left? I mean, nixon is the one who through taiwan under the bus and it’s all the people who fear being unable to do business in china, ie corporations and their minions who bend over backwards to not offend china on this issue.
Sure, it sucks, but it’s business. As long as the Chinese marketplace is somewhere you want to make money, you need to watch what you say. It’s not just about offending the government, who can pull your film, but also the people, who will not go out and watch it.
Well, look at this spineless pussy!!!
The AVClub Newswire is really giving the “Apologizing Men” insta page a lot of content today.
Hey, AV Club, AV Club, AV Club, AV Club, AV Club, AV Club, AV Club, AV Club . . . . . AV Club, AV Club, AV Club, AV Club, AV Club, AV Club, AV Club, AV Club, AV Club, AV Club, AV Club, AV Club, AV Club, AV Club, AV Club. . . . .Do you want me to subscribe to your newsletter?
An apology for what might be considered nothing more than a slip of the tongue is ridiculous. Coughing it up in bad Mandarin Chinese is is just an overly pandering way of doing it. A weak, meaningless gesture that just screams “bitch move” at the end of the day.
Cena obviously blundered into that one and I feel really bad for the guy, and that some aren’t accepting his apology.
America’s slow twilight continues.
The CCP has about the thinnest skin on the planet.
And in other news, John Cena is a whore.
A whore not even the Chinese want. So a failed whore.
Well, he’s just following Dwayne Johnson’s playbook, but without all the charisma and talent.
So… does was John Cena reading this statement phonetically? Or does this dude actually speak Mandarin? Anyone know if he actually sounded decent?
Or does this dude actually speak Mandarin?
As for as how fluent he is, I couldn’t say, but he’s been learning it for about 5 years now
Taiwan was originally supposed to be the first country in the world to release F9 in cinemas (no longer the case), so Cena of course was out promoting the movie. The interview was a few weeks ago IIRC, but Chinese netizens (trolls, really) found the interview online (Chinese cannot watch Taiwanese TV) and decided to challenge Cena regarding his comments which no doubt insulted 3.6 gazillion Chinese everywhere.The whole apology is shameful, really. Cena is kowtowing to a country that is ruled by a mass-murdering regime since 1949, a country with an army of trolls that police the internet (ironically without even full access to the Web) to ensure everything said about China is great and that everything said about Taiwan is bad. Even worse is Chinese trolls aren’t buying Cena’s apology at all. Ha!
Isn’t Tzuyu off TWICE Taiwanese? It’s like how in Korean globes there’s no such country as England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland, we’re all UK. Like how come Asians are so dumb when it comes to geography?
Well… China aspires to be an imperialistic superpower so every inch counts. They claim to own all the South China Sea, just because the word China is in the name, and they have been building man-made islands in tiny atolls just to cement their claims. And China has had an inferiority complex since it was founded in 1949, which it compensates by doing shitty things all over the region and the world.
“Taiwan is a country and Xi looks like Winnie the Pooh. Go away.”- My automated reply for all of the spam emails I get from Chinese recruitment companies. For some reason it never gets them to stop.
I guess Chinese recruiters like being negged?
Taiwan doesn’t claim independence. they formally have overlapping claims with the People’s Republic of China as to what ‘China’ is. Were Taiwan to claim ‘independence’, i.e. be Taiwan and not another version of China, then the PRC would throw a shitfit and currently threatens to invade were Taiwan to do this. China regards Taiwan as a ‘renegade province’ and is OK with everyone else treating Taiwan that way so long as the recognize that it is part of China. These are very crucial distinctions.
I love that people on the Left and Right both condemned this, but the Righties did it for the wrong reasons. Jesus, can’t you guys just admit they might be correct on this one? Since they, you know…agree with you?
I can’t believe the Chinese were upset. I thought they were all about The People’s Elbow.
I’m assuming a sniper from Warner Bros. had his rifle trained on him the entire time.
“very, very, very, very important I love, and respect even more, China’s money and the Chinese people’s money.”
FTFY
Apologizing for calling Taiwan a country is like apologizing for saying that the sky is blue. It’s an obvious fact. You don’t have to take my word for it, (although you could because I’ve been living in Taiwan for over ten years) just come to Taiwan and see for yourself. Poor John Cena to have to apologize for that. “Okay, if you’ll play our movie I’ll say the sky is purple. Happy now?”
Can we get him to apologize for calling the USA a country while he’s at it? 😉