Lily Gladstone wonders why it took so long for a Native American woman to get an Oscar nomination
Killers Of The Flower Moon's Lily Gladstone would also be the first Native American woman to win, obviously
Aux News Lily Gladstone
This morning, Lily Gladstone became the first Native American woman to be nominated for Best Lead Actress at the Academy Awards—meaning she would also be the first to win, if she wins. Gladstone’s nomination came from her work as Mollie Burkhart in Martin Scorsese’s Killers Of The Flower Moon, about how a conspiracy of envious white men murdered their way through the wealthy Osage Nation.
Reacting to the news of her Oscar nomination (via Deadline), which she heard about while at the Osage reservation in Oklahoma (explaining that she wanted to be “as close to Mollie as I could be”), Gladstone said that, in addition to being “so honored,” she wondered why no Native American actresses had been honored by the Motion Picture Academy until her. “Why did it have to take this long for me to be the first Indigenous North American?” She asked, noting that “most of the films that show up in these categories are shot on Indigenous land in North America” anyway, and yet “it’s taken this long.”
Still, while she is the first, Gladstone is adamant that she is “not going to be the last,” and she hopes her Oscar nomination is “inspiring to other young Native actresses out there who are excited about just the moment of having this film out, and of having the Globes go the way that they did.” For those who only keep up with the major awards shows, Gladstone is referring to the fact that, at the Golden Globes earlier this month, she became the first Indigenous woman to win the Best Actress award. That, perhaps, was foreshadowing continued success for her as this year’s awards season goes on.
We’ll know how it shakes out when the Academy Awards are held on March 10.
136 Comments
But what about Buffy Sainte-Marie?Oh, wait…
Sacheen Littlefeather accepted an Oscar for Marlon Brando, and she was pretending to be a Native American at the time. So she was acting and she accepted an Oscar for acting. Does that count?
These two are really inspiring me to think that *I* can be Native American, too!
Believe in yourself!
Weird to think there was a time when Buffy was a normal first name.
Celebrity names don’t count as normal.
I think Buffy did used to be a common first name, though.
It’s taken so long because we pretty effectively genocided them.
This is an easy one … for most of showbiz history Native American roles were played by Italians.
It’s a-me, Sitting Bull!
That’s a spicy St’wan soup!
And, occasionally, Jewish dudes from New York.“Schvvvartzes…”
Don’t forget Leonard Nimoy!
Maybe there simply hasn’t been any roles that were worthy of an Oscar nom.
I doubt that’s true (don’t ask me to list them) but even if it were that would be more because nobody was giving them worthy roles, rather than a lack of ability
There’s a lot of messy racial politics reasons.First, according to the UCLA Bunche Diversity in Hollywood study, about 90% of lead roles in films go to white dudes, so that’s one issue. Minorities and women are fighting for that last 10%.Second, “acting” as a skill observed by an audience is a measure of relatability and empathy. When 77% of your voters are historically white, that’s less obvious relatability out of the gate. Furthermore, researchers at the University of Milano-Bicocca showed images to white observers of needles pricking the skin of various races. They responded far more to the skin of white people being pricked with needles than non-white people.Combine the overwhelming number of actors the voters are exposed to being white and some observable social conditioning limiting how those voters react to non-white emotional states on top of that, and you see a narrow scope of “good actors” at all.Is the lack of exposure to non-white people displaying emotions a reason for this empathy disparity? Perhaps. But in that case, it should be more reason to cast a more representative/diverse field of actors from the start or else we’re just teaching audiences to feel bad for white dudes and only white dudes as we repeatedly shove white dudes with problems in front of them to the exclusion of everyone else.
Or, OR Native women make up 1.1% of the population and only a very small percentage of that very small percentage are actors so you blaming white racism is ridiculous and you have no proof of any actual racism. And the concept that white people cannot relate to the emotions of non-white people is also patently ridiculous considering the massive success of, say, I dunno, The Color Purple (both versions), and the massive success of POC artists in general. The “lack” of POC representation is a myth; critics are looking at total percentage of the population and saying POC are underrepresented, when only a small percentage of said population are artists, a minuscule percentage at that. Look at black women over 30. They are 3.5% of the population. How many are actors? Let’s be generous and say .01%. Do you think black women are under or overrepresented in film?Fake racism of the gaps bullshit.
This logic is internally inconsistent – if 0.01% of Native women go into acting, and also 0.01% of Black women, and 0.01% of white women, the demographics of acting would be identical to the US population. And if awards nominations simply reflected the demographics of the industry, 1.1% of nominees for actress would be Native, and 3.5% Black women over 30 (based on your numbers). Yet actors and awards nominees are a much whiter demographic than the US population, which suggests that there is some mysterious, inexplicable, unknowable, and not at all obvious factor at play.
Um, no. There would still be more white actresses than black actresses, so that’s not an issue at all. And you have to prove racism. Once and for all, for every commentor on this site: Consult a statistician. A disparity is proof of a disparity. You actually have to prove racism happened, regardless of what your DEI department tells you. You say it’s obvious. Prove it. Go ahead. There are endless variables involved. Take one: white people have more money. Racism, right? Nope: The white population is older and has built more wealth. They can send their kids to Julliard, which, by the way, is fighting tooth and nail to give slots to actors of color. Where are the actors of color? Again, a zillion variables are involved.Prove racism. It is beyond absurd to look at racial demographics and imagine that every institution that doesn’t perfectly reflect those demographics is racist. It’s statistically, scientifically illiterate.Prove it. You’re talking about an industry that uses racial quotas to determine who wins awards. Sounds super racist to me.
There would be more white actresses, but the proportion would be the same as the larger population. Since 1930, the US population has averaged 82% white, 11% Black, and 0.6% Native. If actors were representative of the population, and awards were representative of acting, Native nominees would certainly be a small minority. But with ten nominees for Best Actress or Supporting Actress per year, there should be about 6 Native women nominated over the past 9 decades, and more than 100 Black women. Ironically, those numbers offer compelling statistical evidence (you know, “proof”) that racism affects acting nominations.
Bullshit. That is not statistical proof of racism, at all, in no way, never, not on our planet, not under our physics. It is proof of a disparity. That’s all. It doesn’t tell you ANYTHING about the reason for the disparity. You would be flunked for presenting that as proof of anything but a disparity if you turned in a paper claiming this in stats class.Go back to school, talk to a teacher, anyone other than an “anti-racist” one, and they will tell you 100% that this is not proof of racism. Again: There are a trillion variables you haven’t accounted for, you’ve just settled on racism. You’re wrong. Prove to me it’s racism in an industry obsessed with equity to the point of using racial quotas.
Fortunately I’m not presenting this at a statistics class, I’m fucking with some guy on the Internet who thinks physics is related to both racism and statistics. However, I will admit that I can’t prove racism statistically because it’s a cultural phenomenon rather than a purely mathematical one. I would need to interpret numerical disparities in the context of broader social disparities affecting the same groups, maybe linking those disparities to centuries of legal policy targeting those groups. If only such research existed. Oh well. I do like the idea of a statistical model that accounts for a trillion variables, though. You should get to work on that.
I just mentioned psychics in passing because we live in a reality where proof of disparity is not proof of fucking racism. I’m getting the feeling you don’t live on that particular planet. You are from Planet Invisible Racism, and if you don’t think there’s an infinite number of variables that could account for this disparity but that you can magically determine it’s racism based on a fucking disparity, you need school. And Midol. I’d settle on you proving this is racism. Because you have zero proof it is.
Psychics know exactly who’s racist. We should get one of them.
Oh noes, a typo when I’m using my thumb to type. You’ve invalidated my entire argument. Actually you have shown your ignorant bigoted ass.
Racists just love “stats”. Your defensive screed has moved way beyond any discussion of this actress’s statement.
You know who else love stats? Scientists. What idiots! We should just trust our emotions and spread fake divisive bullshit poison that tear at the fabric of society.
If someone IRL pokes you do you delfate like a hot air balloon?
Welp, you have proven that you’re a racist fool, well done.
Nice argument. How am I incorrect?
That “maybe” is doing a lot of heavy lifting there mate.
Maybe.
“…She asked, noting that “most of the films that show up in these categories are shot on Indigenous land in North America” anyway, and yet “it’s taken this long.” I don’t know if we’re going to be able to find a workable intersection between NA actresses and Film Sets, although I have seen some knockout tree and river performances. All probably improvisational though.
But seriously it’s because Hollywood is a old white institution that still has yet to come to terms with the fact that the world has changed and it can’t just be a bunch of old white guys awarding Best Old White Guy to other old white guys.
Racism.
Prove it. Native women are 1.1% of the population. No one knows how many are actors, so let’s be generous and say .01%. Again, I could be wrong, but I’d say that’s a liberal estimate. That means .000001% of the population are Native actresses. You can’t prove racism, you just assume it due to a disparity, but a disparity is ONLY proof of a disparity, not of discrimination. I think the logical answer is there aren’t that many Native actresses. Literally. Or it could be super secret systemic systematic systems of domination in…Hollywood, the most progressive place outside of academia. It shall remain a mystery.
I shouldn’t have to explain this, but.. Institutional racism exists, especially in any colonised country.
The conquerors make the laws, their culture becomes the dominant culture, and descendants and immigrants accepting that culture have a vested interest in propagating it. From making laws in the highest levels of government to middle managers hiring based on “you remind me of me when I was your age”.
To say institutional racism has nothing to do with the lack of indigenous people getting Oscars is ridiculous. Especially in a country like the US that sold its culture to the world for all to see, racism and all.
Preposterous. What “conquerors” are in modern day America? The cops? The cops, and feel free to look this up, kill on average 14 unarmed black people a year, according to the Washington Post Police Shooting Database. What outrageous conquering! 14. More whites are killed, genius.Most black people are middle class, you fucking dunce. They aren’t conquered by shit, and they want to work, fuck their spouses, play with their kids, and go see a movie. How horrible.And Hispanics are gaining great ground in the middle class as well. What oppression, middle class existence.You speak for no one. You have no evidence of institutional racism except for the fact that the rate of crime committed by a vary small percentage of the population matches incarceration rates. Wow. Criminals are in jail. Fuck America. Burn it down.You’re a fucking child and an establishment clown. There is no epidemic of police violence against unarmed black people. There is no institutional racism, just institutions functioning properly. Guess what, shitheel: Black people want cops in their neighborhoods. They don’t like criminals either.You spout the same idiotic belief as the most privileged of elites at Yale, Berkeley, on Wall Street, in the DEI administrations of every corporation and university in the country, in Hollywood, by the New York Times. YOU are the establishment, sucking on the recycled bullshit Black Liberation Movement horseshit that was resurrected by craven Marxist millionaires like Patrice Cullors. Yeah, a founder of BLM, a trained Marxist, a real revolutionary. She had to resign in disgrace from BLM because she bought multiple mansions. It’s all a fucking joke, and you are the punch line. From Meta to the DNC, you spout pure establishment talking points. The revolution is totally endorsed by corporate America and every fucking institution, and it won’t be televised; you’ll watch it on Twitch, with your useless dick in your hand.You’ve wasted your life.
Woah. The context I brought up was colonisation, i.e. when Europeans sailed to the New World and conquered it. The same thing happened where I live in Australia. These countries were invaded and the indigenous populations that survived had their cultures destroyed or damaged irrevocably, and have had to live with that to this day.
Everything else I wrote flows on from that. If you don’t believe it then you’re either willfully ignorant or racist yourself.
Fuck you.
Also, you may want to check your conclusions:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/“Black Americans are killed at a much higher rate than White Americans. Although half of the people shot and killed by police are White, Black Americans are shot at a disproportionate rate. They account for roughly 14 percent of the U.S. population and are
killed by police at more than twice the rate of White Americans.
Hispanic Americans are also killed by police at a disproportionate rate.”
I wasn’t even arguing this, but thanks for suggesting I look up the Washington Post Police Shooting Database. You should too.
Nothing I said re: the Washington Post was wrong. The average for unarmed blacks is 14. More whites are killed total, but you are correct that blacks are killed at a higher rate. So…yeah, I know the source, and the section you are referring to is talking about armed suspects, thanks. Those shootings were fucking justified.As for bringing up the colonialism re: NAs, that was hundreds of fucking years ago, and it has occurred in every culture, including NA cultures. I could give you the list of NA tribes conquering/enslaving other NA tribes over and over and over and over again, but you can google it for yourself. It’s quite long. Tribe after tribe after tribe after tribe waged war and conquered each other, so let’s cut the shit that the colonization of the Americas is somehow some unique sin we must destroy society to atone for. No thanks.
The Washington Post link had “Black Americans are killed at a much higher rate than White Americans” as one of its bold headings, and you ignored it. That’s lying by omission. And it was in total, both armed and unarmed. So you lied about that too. As for shooting armed suspects being “fucking justified”.. Mistakes happen, and not conceding that is just wrong. You also don’t know each case, so you’re speaking from ignorance.
And while colonialism was hundred of years ago, the effects are still felt today in very real ways. Like I said, the indigenous people lost their cultures, they’ll never be the same again. And the descendants of the original conquerors, their allies, and invited immigrants all have a vested interest in keeping things the way they are now. We won. But you don’t have winners without losers. And, obviously, a measure of any society with colonial heritage can be found in how the winners treat the losers.
Both the US and Australia have failed in this regard. A lot. We live on stolen land. If you don’t even have the balls to acknowledge that, then you’re a piece of shit that doesn’t truly appreciate what they have.
I did not ignore it, I just fucking acknowledged it in my last comment, but AGAIN: THOSE ARE JUSTIFIED SHOOTINGS. I’m talking about the myth of cops slaughtering unarmed black people. When polled, Americans thought that thousands of unarmed blacks were killed each year. But if you go to the Filter section:You can search by race/unarmed and the average is fucking 14 people. This average has been publicly acknowledged.https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/07/03/police-black-killings-homicide-rates-race-injustice-column/3235072001/The narrative that cops are slaughtering unarmed black people is a lie. Oh, Jesus, the indigenous are still affected today by things dead people did, so let’s destroy society and call ourselves a white supremacist slave state. What do you suggest we do about it? Because there are very serious people who want to upend our whole fucking civilization because of it. I’m 100% behind any social program you want to throw at the problems of NAs, up to and including UBI, but don’t give me that stolen land bullshit. The NAs took the land from other NAs, and they took it from other tribes, and again and again…forever. Again: THAT’S THE WAY PEOPLE LIVED IN THE PAST. Now. Do you acknowledge that there is no epidemic of police slaughtering unarmed black people?
I did not ignore it, I just fucking
acknowledged it in my last comment, You omitted it when you initially brought up the subject. You only acknowledged it because I stuck it in your face.
but AGAIN: THOSE ARE JUSTIFIED
SHOOTINGS. Whatever you need to tell yourself so you can sleep at night.
I’m talking about the myth of cops slaughtering unarmed black
people. When polled, Americans thought that thousands of unarmed blacks
were killed each year. I don’t care. The topic here is about Lily Gladstone’s Oscar nomination. You have some bugbear about what Americans think of police shootings I didn’t prompt you for.
I’m 100% behind
any social program you want to throw at the problems of NAs, up to and
including UBI, Well at least you acknowledge they have problems. Now if only you could acknowledge how many of those problems started.
but don’t give me that stolen land bullshit. The NAs took
the land from other NAs, and they took it from other tribes, and again
and again…forever. Again: THAT’S THE WAY PEOPLE LIVED IN THE PAST. Well then it’s all ok that we did it to them. /sYou ask what to do about it.. Empathy would be good. Reconciliation would be better. Either way it’s work that won’t get done with an attitude like “that’s all in the past and everyone’s equal now”.
Now. Do you acknowledge that there is no epidemic of police slaughtering unarmed black people?I never said otherwise.
Stuck what in my face? Justified shoots? The killing of armed criminals? Bravo, I suppose. Still don’t see your point. The national narrative since Michael Brown—a justified killing—has been that cops are slaughtering unarmed black people in the streets. It’s not true.You mentioned “institutional racism”, so I discussed it. There, bugbear solved.Of course I acknowledge the problem, but the modern social justice movement wants to entirely transform society over it. No. It needs to be said more often: No, we are not going to abandon our entire system over some inequality. That’s inevitable, and my original point about NAs in film/TV stands: They are more than represented. I didn’t even mention the work of Taylor Sheridan.Please quote me as saying everyone is equal now. I’m saying the cause of most of the inequalities we discuss have logical reasons that do not include “systemic” racism, which, again, is why I discussed it in the first place.And what do you mean “we” did it to them? Who is WE? White people? Sorry, those white people are long fucking dead, and again, we are not going to raze society to the ground over it. Have a great day.
Please quote me as saying everyone is equal now.
If you don’t experience inequality, then that’s easy to say.
A) I have experienced actual, systematic, naked inequality, thanks. My industry put a two year moratorium on producing work by people of my gender, race, and sexuality. But I’m the wrong gender, race, and sexuality, so that doesn’t count, right? That’s called equity and progress. B) You didn’t answer my question. You can’t quote me because I never said it.Fuck outta here.
Yeah, you’d better get the fuck outta here because..A) I’m calling bs. No entire industry did that. Industries don’t work that way unless the government makes such a regulation, and there would be some record of that because it would have been all over the news. You probably couldn’t get a job because it’s in a company’s interest to hire people from different cultures so that they can market their products to those cultures more easily. Or they just hired the best people for the job, which means all races and genders compete equally now to address previous inequality in the workplace. This avoids the “you remind me of me when I was your age” hiring practice I mentioned earlier. No industry stopped hiring a specific race and gender. No industry stopped producing work by a specific race and gender. This didn’t happen.
Basically you’re complaining that things are better for more people. You’re complaining about actual equality put into practice. Things that should be celebrated you just view as “it’s made it harder for me”. You selfish prick.
B) I don’t need to quote you. I pointed out your attitude is near enough as to not be different. Learn empathy toward others. It’s not all about you.
A) It was a two year moratorium on white male playwrights called The Jubilee. Theatre companies directly broke the law, as it is unlawful to discriminate if you receive federal funding and violated the Equal Rights Act of 1964. Nobody cared, and if you spoke out about this, you were branded a Nazi. Fuck You;https://howlround.com/welcome-jubileeB) Fuck you again, victim shamer.
So.. let me get this straight. You’re complaining about the suggestion that over the course of the 2020-2021 season (which AFAIK is one year) every theatre in the US produce works by women,
people of color, artists of varied physical and cognitive ability,
and/or LGBTQIA artists. A suggestion that doesn’t ban white men by the way, just an effort to get more works from other people that everyone (including white men) can participate in. You could help write these things. That’d be ok. You probably wouldn’t be able to get your play produced that year, but just wait a fucking year. Give other people a go who have otherwise been missing out.
And this didn’t actually end up happening in all theatres in America anyway, because, of course it didn’t. So your industry didn’t put a two year moratorium on white male playwrights. You lie and lie again. Stop it.
And yes, liars should be shamed. Just be smarter, not angrier. The life of an artist is to find opportunities. All opportunities. I’m not Christian, but I’ve written and performed Christian music. It’s a gig. Getting angry about it is stupid. We work in collaborative industries. Compromise is part of that. If there’s a focus or market shift toward stories or styles I don’t normally work with, then it’s up to me to adapt. It’s how we grow. My work can wait and will still be there when I come back to it.
You’re in an industry where significantly fewer female writers’ works are produced than male. This is inequality. You shouldn’t want this. The reason they make such extreme demands is because they know they won’t be met. But it moves the pendulum slightly closer to equality, because it’s attention grabbing and starts conversations. Only through talking can we understand eachother.
Change or die.
Yeah, you weren’t part of the event, so you know jack shit. Theatres were fucking picketed, there were bitter purges of ADs, and like I said, all dissent was crushed. Careers were ruined. You. Know. Jack. Shit. I could tell you a number of ADs who got straight up fired, and many writers who got called white supremacists for being against fucking racial discrimination.And yes, of course I disagree with judging artists by by immutable characteristics. You seem to support that, so you are anti-art and illiberal and a fucking ignorant twat who speaks on things you did not experience. We are not going to fucking discriminate our way to equity, you fucking cog.Just die.
How’d that work out for you. All you had to do was change your perspective, realise it was about giving others a chance for a brief duration, not an attack on you, and then adapt to changing work conditions just like everyone has to in their life. It wasn’t forever and wasn’t even at every theatre. No one was stopping you from working. The opportunities changed. You could have taken them.
But you just didn’t want to, so that’s the hill you chose to die on. You chose ideals over just getting along with others. Anger over just making a fucking living. Hopefully you don’t have a family to feed.
What a senseless waste of your life.
The category of “changing work conditions” does not and should not include fucking racial discrimination, you regressive cunt. And, again, you have no idea what the theatre culture is like now. Theatres are regularly attacked for producing white playwrights. Board members have resigned over this. Again, AGAIN: You know jack shit. There are plays being continually produced that can only be described as racist against white people (one stage direction I read was, “As few white people as possible should play these parts, preferably none”). White students quit classes and quit writing over this culture. There is a wildly successful play called simply “Straight White Men” that comes out against individualism. There have been open letters signed by hundreds of writers and professors demanding that FUCKING CRITICS SHOULD ONLY REVIEW THOSE OF THE SAME RACE/GENDER/SEXUALITY. You cool with that? Yeah, you are. You cool with a theatre being publicly called racist and attacked by people whose motto is “No more all white seasons”?Again, yes, you are.You are a racial collectivist. That’s, uh, not good. You think because some members of a race/identity category have been produced, we should discriminate against that category. NO. People are fucking individuals and should be treated as such. Immutable characteristics should NEVER matter, in any way, even in your regressive concept of helping the downtrodden or whateverthefuck. Think of a new playwright who suddenly has to apologize, genuflect, and be punished for their immutable characteristics, and cannot get read because of them. That’s cool with you? That’s progress? You would tell them to “change their perspective”? To you, that’s fair?People are not being produced, being publicly attacked, being blacklisted, and having their race constantly denigrated in produced work and theatre discourse. Fuck that, in any industry, in any situation, forever, you rotten regressive spunk.
Either the majority of theatres are as you describe, which would be covered by all major news outlets, certainly right-wing ones. Except they’re not. But all American theatres still really are all as bad as you say.
Or, Occam’s razor, you’re the problem and are overreacting. You sound pretty upset.
And again, how’s that working out for you. Poor starving idealistic artiste. If you can’t make a living from your chosen art, then you’re mostly responsible. There are more options now than ever before to get your work in the public eye. Figure it out or suffer in deserved obscurity.
You’d be amusing if you weren’t so pitiful and pathetic. And a proven liar.
LOL nobody gives a shit about theatre. Major news? Are you fucking serious? First of all, this kind of shit is commonplace everywhere nowadays, and secondly, again, nobody outside of the theatre world gives a fuck. You think the right wing care about theatre lololo? Kinja, please.I’m not overreacting, you have no idea what you are fucking talking about. I just described to you a play about how white people think of themselves as individuals and that’s wrong, an open letter calling for racial/identity segregation between artists/critics, stage directions shitting on white people, board members resigning *because they were pressured to do so because they are white*, ADs resigning/being fired for the same, and the plight of young writers, which I hear about all the time as I am a resident at a theatre company and read their work. I read a lot of work, and the vast majority of the shit I read is identity politics poison. You cannot escape the endless cascade of plays about identity/racism/oppression, written by privileged kids with fucking master’s degrees.Get back to me when you’ve spent 15 years doing this, you fucking fork.
Theatres are valuable institutions in any town that many people care about, and the right-wing media will take any opportunity to push the kind of story you’re spouting.. if there was even a whiff of evidence of it. White people losing jobs over “forced diversity” and “wokeism”. That’s their bread and butter. Their audience lap that shit up.
And after all this I still don’t really have an idea what you’re talking about because you’ll evidently lie, omit and exaggerate to make a point. Maybe you’re really good at writing fiction, but you suck at non-fiction.
Not to mention, you still have a job in a theatre company. Apparently the purge you describe was sooo devastating for you. Oh but now you have to read plays you don’t agree with. Fuck off whiner.
Get fucking real. I’ve personally contacted news outlets in regards to illegal racial quotas at a theatre and nobody in town gave a shit, because progressivism is the establishment and the establishment is progressivism, but ok:https://nypost.com/2022/11/26/broadway-interpreter-fired-for-being-white-settles-case-amid-backlash/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/09/theater/new-42-diversity-lawsuit.htmlhttps://tnc.news/2023/11/09/black-theatre-discrimination1/https://www.nydailynews.com/2020/02/07/playing-with-fire-reject-a-theater-companys-plan-to-charge-whites-higher-ticket-prices/The (unhinged) complaints:https://time.com/5850553/open-letter-racism-theater-industry/https://www.theeagleonline.com/article/2023/10/act-1-theater-students-allege-incidents-of-racism-and-ignorance-in-the-department-of-performing-arts-65240de376a26https://www.americantheatre.org/2020/07/15/not-a-moment-but-a-movement-toward-an-anti-racist-american-theatre/https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/arts/la-ca-night-is-a-child30-2009aug30-story.htmlhttps://howlround.com/collective-call-against-critical-biashttps://www.americantheatre.org/2015/11/16/on-the-rights-of-playwrights-and-white-tears/https://whyy.org/articles/open-letter-complains-that-philadelphia-theatre-company-is-backsliding-on-diversity/ https://www.sacbee.com/news/equity-lab/article250989604.htmlPlease tell me this is not a totally illiberal, totally dysfunctional racial culture in American theatre. EVERY. SINGLE. THEATRE. COMPANY. Is fucking desperate to produce POC playwrights, and open racism against white artists is allowed and cheered. Once again, we are faced with a demographic bottleneck problem interpreted as discrimination. Go figure.These fucking lunatics are complaining that a miniscule proportion of the population—say, non-fucking-binary people—aren’t represented enough, and are complaining about racism against POC when, again, EVERY FUCKING THEATRE COMPANY WANTS THEM. If you believe the uber-progressive theatre community is racist, I’ve got a Statue of Liberty to sell you.I have a job because I caught my company dead to rights trying to initiate racial quotas while taking federal funds. I’m an absolute pariah in my company and industry. Fuck it, no discrimination.Go away. You don’t know the culture. You don’t know the industry. YOU DON’T KNOW SHIT. Speak on something you know about, like bringing back racial segregation in the name of progress.Fuck off. I’m done with you.
I’ve personally contacted news outlets in regards to illegal racial quotas at a theatre and nobody in town gave a shit
Aww, and you seem such an easy person to talk to. I’m an absolute pariah in my company and industry I’m sure you’ll win them back with your sterling personality though, hey? eh? :DOMG, in the 2022/23 Broadway season there were FOUR WHOLE SHOWS casting trans and non-binary performers. NOOOOO!!!1! It’s the end of civilisation as we know it. Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes. The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together… MASS HYSTERIA!
The hyperbole was a joke. And so are you.
Um. When did I say it was a problem for trans and NB people to perform? The problem, as ALWAYS, is that what is a demographic bottleneck problem is perceived to be evil structural systems of systemic systematic systems of oppression. Dipshit. I wouldn’t worry about me, people confide in me all the fucking time that I’m right. I had a super successful writer tell me he doesn’t think he’ll ever be produced again, and this guy wrote for House of Cards. Ah, progress. And I’ve got projects lined up with people who understand as well. Thanks for your concern :)Do you always put your two cents in when it comes to communities you aren’t a fucking part of? Of course you do. You’re a progressive.Please continue to support racial discrimination and segregation and all manner of illiberal shit. I’ll just be over here being produced and knowing I took the high ground and won.Tootles!
systems of systemic systematic systems Thanks for clearing that up.
people confide in me all the fucking time that I’m right Like your girlfriend.. from Canada.. that we’ll get to meet next summer.. Do you always put your two cents in when it comes to communities you aren’t a fucking part of? Wow, I didn’t know you’re a Native American woman nominated for an Oscar too.
I’ll just be over here being produced Until there’s another “two year moratorium on white male playwrights”. If you think you experienced “actual, systematic, naked inequality” once, just wait for the sequel!
Looking forward to another of your final sign-offs. Shit stain.
LOL you can’t spot obvious mocking of social justice jargon. You’re a bright one.Sure, allow me to doxx myself for you, oh internet bottom feeder who supports racial segregation and, well just straight up racial discrimination. For progress!You’re pushing your bullshit ignorance into an entire world you do not understand, even after I provided examples of vicious racism you won’t acknowledge. The number of NA women is free information, and from there it is simple as pie—well, not for you, “shit stain”—to understand that there is no underrepresentation problem of NA actresses. You’d have to be a free roaming retard to take that claim seriously, because again, NA women are 1.1% of the population (and that includes Pacific Islanders), you festering regressive afterbirth, and only a miniscule number of them are actresses.I lost a production because of my race/gender/sexuality, and you’re down with that, and don’t think that’s systemic racism. Again: Very bright, Oh noes! Did I respond again on a free message board?? Why shiver me timbers!!!Stick to arguing about Barbie, sputum. Oh, did you know that in order to be awarded best picture by the Academy, you have to meet strict racial quotas? Is that systemic racism, or somehow not, “shit stain”?See ya! Or maybe not, maybe I’ll—gasp—respond again!!!!!!! Holy Fuck Who Cares!
I lost a production because of my race/gender/sexuality, NO YOU FUCKING DIDN”T!If you’d stop reacting and listen, or read in this case, you might have a happier life. Instead of finding my insults better than your own so you repeat them back to me. Some fucking writer you are. You also don’t seem to know what doxx means.
You lost nothing. In this case you don’t know what losing an opportunity truly feels like because a) the Jubilee season was a limited time and was always planned that way, and b) there are still and always will be theatres doing plays by white guys.
You haven’t even considered that other people’s work is just better than yours. Or more topical than yours. Or smarter than yours. Or just simply more interesting and entertaining than yours. That’s why they’re getting produced. From what you’ve described the only reason you still have a job is everyone’s just putting up with you.
Fuuuuuuck you’re stupid. “oh you don’t know how bad my industry is, I can give examples of racism against white people most of which isn’t then put into practice, or people lost their jobs because they didn’t want to do what every other industry and government in the free world has been doing to address inequality in the workplace for years now, or even suggestions of giving non-white people an advantage must be stamped out and eliminated, kein exceptions, achtung! verboten!” Honestly, that’s what you sound like. That’s how you’ve succeeded in communicating this.
You’re a liar. A bad writer. And fucking awful at arguing. Any point you think you’ve made can easily be countered with a plethora of others from this article’s comment thread alone. “oh but I’ve got numbers”, yes good for you, big boy can count, now leave the adults alone so we can actually discuss the history and socio-political contexts that actually got us to where we are. You don’t want to discuss anything, you just want to monologue. It’s why I dismissed this thread long ago so no one else will see it. I truly have wasted your time.
You’re so pathetic you can’t even leave this alone when you say you’re going to. Keep going for all I care. If it takes up your time and keeps other people from having to put up with you then that’s all good.
Asshead: I had the play slated. The AD called me and told me they were not going to go through with it due to the Jubilee. Shrug emoji, end of story, you support racial discrimination. I REPEAT: YOU FUCKING SUPPORT RACIAL DISCRIMINATION. And check this out: The AD was asked to resign over his identity shortly thereafter. I could link to an article about it right now, but I CAN’T AS I DON’T WANT TO BE DOXXED. Much progress.And again, AGAIN: NA women are totally overrepresented due to their population size. That’s the point. How do you not understand that? Do you think less than 1.1% of roles go to NA women? Again, there have been plenty of high profile roles for NA actresses in recent history: Taylor Sheridan’s work, Reservation Dogs, Echo, this bitch moaning about the problem…do you think that’s more or less than, say, .000001% of roles? Eat shit.Who. The. Fuck. Cares. If I continue to comment. Weird flex abut dismissing my comments. I don’t care. I’m talking to you.In summation; You support open racial discrimination, yet find my appeals to fucking bedrock liberal principle to be racist. Your brain is scrambled regressive shit.I noticed you totally ignored the issue of the Academy Awards using racial quotas, which totally supports my thesis that this identity politics poison has taken over the performing parts. Huh.You sure write a lot for someone who is above the conversation.Eat shit, you fucking racist. You cannot prove systemic racism. I suppose this is you not wasting your time.
You’re monologuing to me. And raging. You don’t for a second consider that if all this bad shit is happening to you and around you that then maybe your perspective is the problem. And then you get upset at me for offering a different way of looking at it. You’re not in a war zone. The world isn’t falling down around you. Life isn’t ending. But sure, let’s keep doubling-down on how it is “EVERY. SINGLE. THEATRE. COMPANY.” and I couldn’t possibly understand.
It’s hilarious.
Waawaawaa, I didn’t get a show produced at the specific time and place I wanted, and then didn’t think “maybe I could get it made later elsewhere”. And you’ll just have to take my word for it, even though I’ve proven to be a liar in this very thread.
Duhduhduh, I can’t be bothered to read other people’s posts here about how Hollywood used people from other cultures to play Native Americans for decades. But no, that can’t possibly be part of the reason they haven’t won many awards in the past.
Raaraaraa, you support racial discrimination, even though most of the laws and measures put in place are to address inequality and discrimination. But now I don’t have my unfair advantage, waaaaa. It’s not fair. I’m a big white straight man baby who’s not getting his way.
eat shit, asshat, facking racist, regressive sputum, blah blah blah blah blah
Wasting your time is me making leisurely use of mine.
Yes, racial discrimination certainly is another perspective, one that I thought the left had left behind 70 fucking years ago. But it’s back, baby, for progress!What does the history of not using NA actors in the past have to do with anything? Oh, right, progressives conflate the past with the present to bolster their claims of racism. Ahem: The past is fucking dead, and NA women are not underrepresented anymore. But let’s cling to the past for moral justification of race-based animus/hatred/discrimination.How have I been proven a liar? Oh, right, more projection.This grows tiresome. You support discrimination, I don’t, but please continue to rage about how I’m the racist, and please continue to denigrate my identity to prove you have the moral upper hand. That has worked great for the left and doesn’t at all drive people to the right, as people on the right will straight up fucking tell you. But you people don’t listen, because you are blind ideologues. What fucking unfair advantage do I have? Oh, right, my privilege. My privilege of working my fucking ass off for 15 years. But I’m white so I must have had things handed to me, even though EVERY FUCKING THEATRE COMPANY WANTS TO PRODUCE POC. Oh, sorry, I know that reality bugs the fuck out of you. I notice reality bugs the shit out of you.Gee, I wonder why POC playwrights aren’t produced even though every single institution is bending over backwards to usher them in. Could it be that adult black people are 7% of the population, etc., you know the drill. A demographic bottleneck is proof of racism, again. Brilliant. If you think a creative culture in which a group of activists can declare a movement called “We see you, White Theatre’’ isn’t deeply racially dysfunctional, allow me to sell you your own taint.Die choking.
there he goes repeating himself again, not even trying to understand how if someone asks “why did it take this long” they’re literally asking about the past, and now saying i’m projecting while ignoring the lies he made in black and white above, but he has all the answers and the only answers, and apparently “you people” don’t listen because “you people” are ideologues, while in his reality there’s no such thing as white privilege, yet 7% of 332 million is almost the population of Australia but nooo there can’t possibly be enough Black writers to be produced, it must be only caused by a “demographic bottleneck”, oh but poor hard done by white guy is getting tired, best let him get some sleep, like his brain has been for the last couple days
Well, this certainly is a load of gibberish. I’ll try to pretend to be a regressive retard and parse this spastic screed.It took so long because the past is different than the present. Here, in the present, the only moments that matter, there is no underrepresentation. The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. Can we EVER FUCKING MOVE ON?And the demographic argument still largely applies to the past as well as racism. So: MOVE ON PROGRESSIVE NAVEL GAZERS. Apparently you think “you people” is some kind of racist dog whistle, while in reality, if you understand fucking context clues, I’m clearly referring to progressives. If you made a racial association, that’s your racist brain, freindo.Again, there are plenty of black writers. Do I fucking need to go into the demographics again? Less than 6% fucking percent of black people are adults. How many are writers? Fuck, let’s get crazy and say half of them are. Does it seem like more than 3% of the entertainment is written by black people? You smegma?Your brain fucking sucks, your ideas are racist and generic progressive pap, none of your solutions—if you offered any—would work, because we are not dealing with fucking systemic racism here. We are dealing with cold hard demographics. Again (I know you hate to hear it), every fucking institution in the country is dying to recruit POC. Every. Institution. Every university, every university department, every corporation, every theatre, every fucking knitting circle. Deal with it.Oh, and you still haven’t opined on the fact that the Academy Awards uses strict—and wildly lopsided—racial quotas to be nominated for best picture. That is actual systemic racism. Do you support that?Let your tiny neurons rest, my retarded regressive racist friend. You’ll need them to avoid walking directly into traffic in the morning.Oh, and white privilege is racist drivel. There are tens of millions of poor white people, and their problems are the exact same as poor black people: fatherlessness, crime, drugs, prison. What is actually happening is cultural in both cases. But you know that. Even you must know that. Maybe not, though, since you think a demographic everyone is falling over to promote is underrepresented by the same systems dying to promote them. Dickless retard progressive cog.
oh god, he’s still going, now calling me a “retard” like all reasonable decent people do in 2024, and still thinks he’s talking to me as if he’s got anything interesting or even accurate to say, but now there’s less than 6% instead of the 7% and even if there was only 1% that’s still over 3 million people, and not realising that the problem is people actually find it necessary to make those “(unhinged) complaints” he listed before, they actually feel so brought down that their only recourse is to react as extremely as they can in the hope of getting any kind of reaction, and they’re not entirely right but they’re not entirely wrong, and that’s a problem but this guy doesn’t even have room for that in his reality, oh well at least it seems I can slow him down writing like this so will continue to waste his time, can’t wait for the next essay and hope he plays his greatest hits like “systemic systematic systems” and “regressive”
oh, no, you’re offended by words, what a cliche. Except it’s not 1%, I was purposefully overestimating to prove a point. It’s closer to .0036%, does it seem like more than .0036% of entertainment is created by black writers? I rest my fucking case, like I rest my balls on your chin.oh, so now they’re being extreme to get a reaction, instead of being virulent racists who are quite literally taught they are being oppressed as they go to Yale and Julliard. Ridiculous. I mean, retarded.There is no fucking problem. Not every fucking writer is stage worthy, so we’re talking about an even more miniscule percentage, but whatever, you can’t squeeze that into your synapses, it must be systemic racism, which, once again, YOU CANNOT FUCKING PROVE. PROVE IT, ASSHOLE.No, I don’t think I will waste more of my time, thanks. I will leave you in your blind faith in racism that cannot be proven to exist with an anecdote. A POC writing student told me she couldn’t relate to characters outside her race. I was horrified, and explained to her that she should be able to relate to characters from fucking Pluto if the writer has done their job, because we are after universal human truth here, not fucking racial essentialism (I left out the racial essentialism bit, but that’s what she was practicing). We—used—to be teach Shakespeare, Chaucer, Milton, fucking Vonnegut, because their truth transcends such irrelevant concerns as mere skin color.She called me a racist.I’m just going to assume you agree with her.Have a racist weekend excusing wild racism from certain demographics while blaming totally innocent demographics for systemic systems of systematic systems of domination, which again, is a riff on social justice jargon, you mindless, illiberal, anti-art progressive cog.You still haven’t weighed in on the morality of using racial quotas to determine best picture. I’ll just assume you agree with the Academy that racial quotas are totally reasonable and acceptable and not at all discriminatory to FUCKING EVERYONE.Being you must be like drinking piss for eternity, to quote a writer I’m sure you’ve never heard of.
Ah boy, I could let this go on as I have been, and I’m fully expecting you to attack me for this, but after reading your story about that student I have to say, you’re a bad teacher (whether you’re one professionally or otherwise).
A teacher’s role is to impart information and also to be a guide. You failed. You could have, should have listened to the student, ask why they feel/think that way, and then use their perspective to communicate yours to teach them something they didn’t know. She didn’t come to you as an opponent, but from what you wrote you treated her like one. Again, you showed no empathy, when it was about trying to get the student to be open to other ideas. You should have known better and been better. When a student calls you a racist, maybe you are maybe you aren’t, but something’s gone wrong and you’re the responsible person in that situation so you fucked up. You can’t blame her for your failure. Just another example to remind you you’re not always right.
Sure. I’m a bad teacher, that’s why I do it professionally at a theatre company. No, everything I said was about as anodyne as something out of Dead Poet’s Society. She didn’t like white people, you fucking fruitcake. She had been taught poorly, by a very expensive school I might add, that she was being oppressed by white people and didn’t want to read white people and didn’t want to critique the plays of white people, which is her fucking job as a network student. I tried to appeal to the shared humanity of great works, and it was met with the braindead racism of the modern MA program/critical studies/ethnic studies rubric. What had gone wrong was fucking obvious, and I handled it by using basic bitch liberal appeal. I’m a monster.Still not hearing you condemn the systemic racism of the Academy. OH WELL.
So not your fault again. Never your fault. Not even partly. You could never possibly be wrong. Blame everyone, anything else.
Best arts (and sciences) teachers I’ve known didn’t have all the answers, they had knowledge, but they knew answers depended on perspective so there was always more than one way of looking at anything.
You have no desire to understand any other perspective than your own. So much for lifelong learning that all teachers should practice. You and I disagree on pretty much everything so of course I won’t oblige your request. Oh well indeed.
Um, she showed up hating white people, like every other writing student with an MA, even the white ones. Fuck, you hate white people. For bullshit reasons.Every. Fucking. Play. I read or see produced is about stupid social justice horseshit. Just blatantly racist propaganda. These fucking (actually) privileged fucking children think we live in the worst society in the world, a society that has literally given them everything. This particular student wrote monologues about the patriarchy and how white people suck. I taught her to show and not tell and did not say a fucking word about her idiotic belief system, other than to try to expose her to some work by the evil white man. She fucking refused to read The Time of Your Life by William Saroyan. It’s mindboggling, fantastically life changing. You’ve never heard of it. She FUCKING REFUSED.These students are ideologues. They don’t want my knowledge, they want to write about how oppressed they are. They all come from wealth. They’re fucking useless, yet I plug away at them. The normal ones I get police their own speech around the true believers, as they can get in serious fucking trouble for stupid shit like whitesplaining and stupid debunked microaggressions. And still I teach them all how to tell a story. PLEASE TELL ME HOW TO TELL A STORY, OH COMPLETE FUCKING NOVICE.Do yourself a favor and stay the fuck out of a world you do not understand. You have no idea how bad things are. I hope you like socialism, because that’s what they want; race-based socialism. Tell me how you would teach them, oh total fucking ideologue.Have a shitty future. These students will make it so. And all I can do is try to introduce them to work by evil whites. OH WELL. YOUR IGNORANT SIDE WON THE CULTURE WAR.. CONGRATS.
Now you may have to collaborate with people from other cultures to understand their stories, but you’re a theatre teacher. You should jump at the chance to do that. Get your theatre geek on and expand your knowledge. This’d be obviously good for both teacher and student alike.
Jeez man, you’re supposedly a professional teacher. It’s your responsibility to figure this out. If your kid doesn’t want to eat their veges, they still need to eat, so you work out ways of getting it in their mouth. Sometimes you gotta hide it in or amongst something they’ll like, or distract them with something they weren’t expecting (“look at the shiny Korean drama over here, isn’t that cool, and notice how that narrative structure is the same as such-and-such Shakespearean play. Ooh ahh parallels. Seems positively universal..”)
And give me a break with the “stay out of a world you don’t understand”. You preach universal human truth, so you evidently believe we can all understand each other at some level.
You think all the students hate white people. Mate, you’ve been hating all guns blazing from your second post here. And why take such an extreme angry approach to get your point across? Is it because you think you’ll be heard better and get a reaction? Gee, just like the people you have a problem with? OMG, you’ve got something in common after all. Let’s all join hands and sing kumbaya but really, really, cross. grrr.
Ahh shit, look what you made me do. Another essay. gaddamnit
Thanks for the utter childish teaching advice of “hiding” the lesson. Brilliant. Back from where I came—during liberalism’s heyday of the 90s—teachers never disclosed their politics. It’s not my place, and I cannot “hide” messages from people WHO REFUSE TO READ THE WORK OF CERTAIN DEMOGRAPHICS, NUMBNUTS.These fucking children have spent their lives learning progressive racism. I apologize for being a bad teacher for not being able to cure intractable learned prejudice. My bad. I do not take an angry approach in real life. I take one here because when I present a simple fact like disparity doesn’t prove discrimination, I get called a white supremacist, “mate.”Keep the advice coming. It’s hilarious.
People act like children they get treated like children. Be smart about it and they won’t know.
Shit, what you’re doing now isn’t working, so what have you got to lose. Can’t do the same thing again and again and expect different results. And my approach you get to read stuff from all over the world. That’s cool.
We’ve both made fun of each other and insulted each other in even measure (well, you’ve used more insults, but whatever) and you’ve shrugged that off easily enough. They’re just students so do the same to them.
Yeah, no, we’re not dealing with people acting like children; we are dealing with stone cold racists whose entire education was contingent on ideological conformity. I treat them with respect and teach them how to tell a story, and the only thing I can do is model good behavior so they maybe won’t blindly hate white men, but. They. DON’T. CARE. They are racists and bigots and racial essentialists and fucking want to upend society over fucking misunderstandings and the worst scholarship in the history of our culture. They have literally been taught that we live in a white supremacist heteropatriarchy, even though they are the children of privilege. The want revolution. They are against colorblindness and think liberalism has failed. They are fucking crazed true believers. They don’t believe in individualism and want hate speech banned. I could go on and on…In discussing this situation with the AD of the theatre, she told me that of course the writer didn’t want to read white men because a revolution is coming that will destroy our wicked society. She sounded like she was talking about witches. This shit is absolutely everywhere in theatre and mos definitely in ALL education. I can give you examples of the kind of shit they’re being taught, but you are as intractable as they are, but what the hell, here’s a morsel of a taste. This is from a FUCKING GRADE SCHOOL’S LESSON PLAN:This isn’t even the fucking tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg. You should read some of the shit that comes across my desk from “folx” with MAs.But please tell me I should just change tactics and teaching methods to change their minds. Their minds can’t be changed. I’ve resigned myself to cultural defeat. This shit is THE modern leftist ethos. It fucking sucks.So do you.
Couldn’t help yourself at the end there, eh? Whatever.
Anyway, if you’re resigned to cultural defeat then that’s that. You don’t wanna change, they don’t wanna change, end of story.
Or stimulate your own interests. You got into theatre literature for a reason right? You may have even loved it at one point. Maybe you still do. Doing comparative analysis of story telling techniques from great literature of different cultures sounds pretty interesting.
If you found something like this that you liked studying, then it seems a natural progression to adapt such work into something students can do.
It’s not really even about changing their minds. It’s about love of literature from around the world to exemplify universal human truths. If students have a problem with one part of it, then they literally have the rest of the world to look at instead. And you literally can’t offer them more than that.
They don’t want the great works, friendo, they literally have a movement called Decolonize the Canon to remove fucking Shakespeare and Milton, etc. They are racists, friendo, committed to it harder than any redneck racist I’ve ever met, because their racism is socially acceptable and taught to them at fucking Ivy League schools.I can just see the tide has turned. Doesn’t mean I’ve given up. I’ve got projects lined up and I still teach them to tell stories, but shit, man, YOU BELIEVE THE SAME BULLSHIT THEY DO. So does pretty much every commenter on this site. It’s too late. They have rejected liberalism. YOU’VE BEEN HOUNDING ME FOR DAYS BECAUSE I CORRECTLY POINTED OUT THAT DISPARITY DOESN’T PROVE DISCRIMINATION, YOU FUCKING CLOWN.We study fucking American playwrights, dipshit. If you knew the name of the theatre, you’d know why. I literally can’t offer to teach them shit from Paraguay, but nice of you to tell me how to teach again. And it wouldn’t matter if it came from around the world if it was written by the white men THEY REFUSE TO READ, WOULD IT, COPERNICUS? You’re on the side of people literally judging everyone by race, I’m against that, yet you think I’m the racist. That neatly summarizes everything, so I no longer need to talk to you.
We study fucking American playwrights, dipshit.
You’ve mentioned Shakespeare and Milton more than once, so excuse me for assuming you studied them, ass. Though guess that rules out comparing even obvious stuff like Journey to the West and The Odyssey. Oh well.
And you don’t really know what I believe. You’ve made a lot of assumptions. I will say I do think stats are part of the story. You seem to think they’re all the argument you need, the be all and end all, but my experience is things involving people are rarely so clean. Humanity is messy. But yeah, as I’d already mentioned, we disagree on pretty much everything. We’re just repeating ourselves, stating the obvious, or finding ways to be offended and offensive to no effect. Could have still had a nicer discussion if you’d held back a bit, but c’est la vie.
I was referring to the Western Canon, which is currently under attack as sexist/patriarchal/racist/homophobic, etc., to prove a point about the shared humanity and embarrassment of riches we have to offer these spoiled, witless ideologues who judge everything/everyone by race. This woman went to a school with a healthy “decolonize the Canon” movement. The result? Vicious and unbound racism. Which doesn’t seem to bother you. Huh. Humanity is messy, but ideology is not. Again, again, AGAIN: Every fucking theatre company wants to work with Natives and POC. The past is not the present. In the present, any NA artist would be snapped up in an instant as long as they weren’t fucking drooling on themselves.Yeah, you’ve been about as civil as the spoiled little ideologues I’ve had to put up with for years, so I think we can count it. Goodbye, oh-someone-who-knows-how-to-teach-better-than-teachers-and-thinks-systemic-racism-is-real-even-though-it-cannot-be-FUCKING-PROVEN.
Which doesn’t seem to bother you.
I’m human. I’m messy. And you don’t know me.
Humanity is messy, but ideology is not.
Ideology gets put into practice by humans though, so.. messy in practice.
oh-someone-who-knows-how-to-teach-better-than-teachers
Like I said, you don’t know me. And you’ve made it clear you don’t care to.
Well, you find it entirely odious—until finally admitting that “stats” may be a part of it—that I would suggest a simple demographic counter to claims of UNPROVABLE, UNFALSIFIABLE SYSTEMIC RACISM, but put all the onus on me to deal with an openly racist rich brat and share a lot of the same beliefs as her. Go figure.So, yeah, you are messy.No, ideologues are simple. I think I deal with them more than you do. They think they’ve discovered the super secret truth and view everything through one lens. If you find ideologues deeply complex thinkers and doers, methinks you haven’t read much fucking history. Ever study the Chinese Cultural Revolution? Yeah, what complex characters those maniacal students were.No, I don’t care to know you. You’re seem to be rather hostile to rationality and liberalism. NO THANKS, FRIENDO.
And you’re just hostile, so ditto.
You are still not a fucking liberal.
“They have rejected liberalism.”
YOU ARE NOT A FUCKIGN LIBERAL.
“ I REPEAT: YOU FUCKING SUPPORT RACIAL DISCRIMINATION.”
Man, you really love to lie about people like this.
“My industry put a two year moratorium on producing work by people of my gender, race, and sexuality.”
Show that. Show it happened Mr TheAutomator.
“ I’m saying the cause of most of the inequalities we discuss have logical reasons that do not include “systemic” racism,”
Things can still have more than one cause dummy!
“but don’t give me that stolen land bullshit. The NAs took the land from other NAs, and they took it from other tribes, and again and again…forever. Again: THAT’S THE WAY PEOPLE LIVED IN THE PAST.”
That doesn’t mean the land wasn’t stolen dipshit and that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t give a shit about the bad things that were done.
Reality just grinds your fucking gears, grow up.
“ You have no evidence of institutional racism”
Except for all the evidence that exists that people show you that you then ignore because you refuse to deal in reality.
You are insane.And if you think disparity proves discrimination, you are totally, absolutely, 1000% fucking dead wrong. Ask a statistician. Ask a mathematician. Go on. I’ll wait. A disparity is proof of…a disparity. PERIOD.Prove to me that a disparity is evidence of racism. Pick one disparity, just one, and PROVE it’s caused by discrimination. You cannot, unless a variable was tested in an experiment or in the process. I’ve got one in mind:https://archive.ph/vMt9T Orchestras were not hiring many women or minorities, so they switched to blind auditions. Interestingly, more women were hired, but not enough minorities. Does this disparity mean that orchestras are racist somehow? If you are a crazed identarian, yes, that’s exactly what it means. The activists are now arguing to do away with blind auditions and make race a primary factor in hiring.Here, in this one case, you have a blind test that would indicate women were being discriminated against, while no racism was detected. There appears to be a dearth of classically trained minority (minus Asians, but the identarians don’t count them anyway) musicians. You have statistical fact plus the added benefit of identarian lunacy. All around, very interesting.Go find me a disparity that in and of itself proves discrimination. Try any of the known disparities in wealth, health, anything…and go ahead and prove—NOT JUST ASSERT—discrimination.I’ll respond to that one and only comment and ignore your other 37, you fucking maniac.
Insane is making a series of sock puppets because you are a scared little bitch.
You’ve been shown the evidence of systematic racism time and time again, You don’t WANT to accept that the world isn’t perfect. You REFUSE to deal with reality or the idea that our systems are not perfect. YOU ARE FUCKIGN RETARDED AS ALWAYS.
Run more bitch.
Yeah, I don’t know what a sock puppet account is.I’ll await your proof of discrimination using nothing but a disparity.Thanks 🙂
Keep waiting on that straw man you made! While you make more sock puppets to run from me like a scared little bitch. How many accounts do you need?
What exactly is your job again? I thought it was drug counseling but now you are a playwright? Or is it just whatever makes you seem like you know what the fuck you are talking about when you never do?
You’re a fucking lunatic. I work for a theatre company in one of the largest theatre cities in the world. Now prove your case. It’s not a fucking strawman. Do you know what a strawman is? Every supposed proof of discrimination bandied about by the left never fucking proves discrimination, it just notes a disparity. So prove it, once and for all.Wealth? Sorry, white people are older, they have had more time to build wealth.Health? Poor black people have terrible health habits. But most black people are middle class. Did you know that, racist?Pick one. Prove it. Or fuck off, I don’t care.
So all your nonsense about being a drug counselor was bullshit. Or this is. No surprise there.
The actual thing I said, that systematic racism was real, is shown by the links I gave you before that I reposted for you again. And yes, I do know what straw man is I watched you do it for weeks.
And you know I’m not fucking off, I just found your new accounts!
Please, I’d be interested in knowing their other accounts too.
Had a long discussion with this “youareonfire” guy and if they’re just making up bs about their life to justify their bs anger, I’d like to know.
That I know of, youareonfire is also:
https://kinja.com/vanheat/discussionshttps://kinja.com/leonvanheat/discussionshttps://kinja.com/sargeantfatherchristmascard/discussions (TheAutomator)
https://kinja.com/dudznsudz/discussions
And they claimed to be a drug counselor?
Told me he worked in a theatre in the US teaching MA students who all didn’t want to read work by white men. And when I suggested he teach work from all over the world he said their theatre only studied American works.
Anyway, he said “I do not take an angry approach in real life”, but seeing how he handles discussions here regarding racism and trans people, I think I’m pretty safe in my conclusion he’s just generally hostile.
On their TheAutomator account they did. He’s now talking about working in a theater but also the same persecution claims of not being able to publish in his industry for years because he is a white guy.
“I think I’m pretty safe in my conclusion they’re just generally hostile.”
For sure.
Oh, the “not being able to publish in his industry for years” was apparently because of something called the Jubilee:https://howlround.com/welcome-jubilee
Which only went for one year (season 2021-22), and he never explained how this amounted to “years”. He’s a bit of a liar.
Absolutely, he lied regularly in our discussions. There are a few key phrases that give it away but this quote brought it home:
“The Academy of Motion Pictures Arts & Sciences won’t even allow your film to be considered for best picture unless you meet strict racial quotas.”
He harped on that SO MUCH in our previous discussions. Now he’s trying to act like he “doesn’t know me” as if he’s not exactly who I say he is. Liar indeed.
Totally gave you all these links already but just for funsies:
https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2021.01394https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8688641/https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/annual-report-shows-systemic-racism-continues-to-bring-down-black-peoples-quality-of-lifehttps://www.hsph.harvard.edu/population-development/2019/11/07/studies-find-evidence-of-systemic-racial-discrimination-across-multiple-domains-in-the-united-states/https://www.cell.com/trends/cognitive-sciences/fulltext/S1364-6613(21)00204-7https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/21533687211047943https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/science.abd7531https://news.stanford.edu/2022/02/01/examining-systemic-racism-advancing-racial-equity/https://www.usccb.org/systemic-racismhttps://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/158-resources-understanding-systemic-racism-america-180975029/
I don’t have time for this data dump, so I just picked the most ominous sounding one from Harvard…and it’s self-reported experiences of discrimination. It’s how people FEEL. Sorry, proof of nothing. Absolutely worthless. Unless you propose we redesign laws and society based on how people fucking feel, rather than on facts.I tried the Stanford “study”, which is just a website…listing disparities. No experiments. JUST DISPARITIES. PROOF OF NOTHING.
I’m satisficed.Goodbye, you absolute fucking maniac.
You don’t even have time to read your own links, I proved that, it’s why you ran off embarrassed as hell.
You cannot cope with reality on any level. I’m sure you never did get that promotion, asshole tyrant.
YOU ARE INSANE. AND YOU HAVEN’T PROVEN WHAT YOU SET OUT TO PROVE. FUCK OFF.
I’m not going anywhere, this is your life now, remember?
The evidence is there, you refuse to deal with reality.
Fuck you, asshole tyrant and retard extraordinaire.
OMG stalker crazy person, the proof is nowhere, you have self-reported reports of discrimination and disparities. Last communique: Disparity doesn’t prove discrimination, you are a fucking lunatic, and I will never respond to you again.
The proof is there, you refuse to engage with reality. You regularly insist things are real that are not.
You are a coward and a tyrant. You were never a fucking liberal.
“Last communique:”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You are an ignorant fucking psycho.https://archive.ph/uEt8F Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
You couldn’t even go five minutes! Don’t worry, I’ll always find you!
LOL literally scientific studies and shit
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8688641/
Just to cut to the chase, from a black economist: “The solution isn’t to look away from discrimination. It does exist. But we also can’t point at every gap in outcomes and instantly conclude it’s racism. Prejudice must be measured rigorously. Statistically. Disparity doesn’t necessarily imply racism. It may feel omnipresent, but it isn’t all-powerful. Skills matter most.”We good? Good.
Look at you clinging to a straw man! You know I never said disparity always proves systematic racism, right? Of course not, you are way to fucking stupid to actually comprehend anything you read, nor can you be honest to save your pathetic life.
What I actually said is that systematic racism does exist and there is a host of evidence for that.
“It does exist”
LISTEN TO YOUR OWN FUCKING SOURCES FOR ONCE.
Yeah, that part is wrong and at odds with the direct evidence provided by the article. Every single item listed from higher rates of police violence, etc., have logical explanations that have nothing to do with race. Here’s one that was just disproven:https://archive.ph/QbrZQ So the economist is still thinking emotionally, but comes to the correct conclusion, which again is THAT DISPARITY ISN’T PROOF OF DISCRIMINATION.I have no fucking idea who you are, and WISH THERE WAS A WAY TO BLOCK YOU YOU OUT OF CONTROL FUCKING PSYCHO, BUT EVERY FUCKING THING YOU SENT ME SAID THERE WAS DISCRIMINATIION BECAUSE OF DISPARITY, WHICH IS FUCKING WRONG, OR WAS SELF-REPORTED USELESS BULLSHIT.
FUCK YOU.
Nice cherry picking dishonest fuck face!
Your article did not provide any direct evidence that systematic racism doesn’t exist. Once again you prove that you don’t show shit about the topics you spew or how fact, logic or evidence works.
I still never said anything other that SYSTEMATIC RACISM EXISTS. But keep harping on that straw man to avoid the facts! Coward as always!
“I have no fucking idea who you are”
Stop pretending retard, you are vanheat/TheAutomator, whatever others.
If you don’t want to see my posts, go the fuck away or shut the fuck up. Trying different accounts clearly isn’t working.
Are you going to claim something is mainstream and then try to prove it by posting a link that explicitly states the position is not mainstream? Because that was hilarious. No wonder you ran crying into the night to fuck whores in the park.
It’s cool, every account of yours I run off is another notch on my belt.
See you again!
Lily Gladstone became the first Native American woman to be nominated for Best Lead Actress at the Academy AwardsThis is incorrect. Yalitza Aparicio was nominated for Roma, unless you dont consider Mexico to be part of North America.
I googled and it seems that “Native American” is specific to within US borders, per a DEI FAQ from UCLA. (Shades here of NTSF:SD:SUV.)Aparicio really was very good. There are a few scenes from that movie I think about regularly (especially the “standing on one foot” shot), and I’m probably due for a rewatch.
Pretty sure many of us still use the term in Canada.
I should have said that I stumbled on that definition, which would be consistent with Aparicio being listed as the first Indigenous nominee and Gladstone as the first Native American nominee.But it’s my first time seeing it defined that way.
Who? Ignorant idiots who don’t understand that Canada isn’t America?
Fuck off with that horseshit.
What does North America have to do with being Native American?
She should have been nominated for Certain Women in 2016. Unfortunately I think her role in Killers is sorely underwritten and does a disservice to her and the character. Happy for her success, though.
“Happy for her success, though.”
You just disparaged her and the character. Don’t pretend you’re happy for her.
Here is a list of 63 women. There are some big names, but they likely wouldn’t have come to mind owing to their mixed heritage: Rosario Dawson, Kim Basinger, even Eartha Kitt. Some may recognize Elaine Miles (Northern Exposure) and Tantoo Cardinal – a member of the Order of Canada, one of the country’s highest civilian honors.
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls053211895//
Absolutely must be racism. I mean, Native American women represent 1.1% of the population. I wonder how many of them are actors? Let’s be generous and say that would be something like .001% of the population. Must be systemic racism.
Thank god a dyed-in-the-wool racist dickhead is here to whine.
Geez we get it. You hate NA women.
Yes, I absolutely hate them for pointing out that the racism narrative is total and utter tripe. Let’s stick with the .01% estimate of NA actresses in America. That would make them .000001% of the population. Just by referencing Scorsese’s film, Echo or whatever that Marvel shit is, and Reservation Dogs, I’d say that representation of NA women is a great deal higher than .000001% of the population. And I hate them for pointing this out. You’re quite bright.
Are we talking enrollment in a tribal register or DNA? If DNA how do we know we haven’t already had an award winner who is primarily of Native American descent? Gladstone is white passing and has an Anglo name. If she didn’t tell people about her ancestry most people would assume she is of primarily European descent. Without DNA analysis how can we know about past winners? Maybe this is just an exercise to parse definitions to make a “first”.
“Gladstone is white passing”
I’m sorry, what?