Margot Robbie really did that The Suicide Squad foot escape, and other revelations from James Gunn
James Gunn also says he was surprised by how violent the movie ended up being.
Film News James Gunn
[The following contains spoilers for The Suicide Squad]
There’s a point in James Gunn’s The Suicide Squad where Harley Quinn (played by Margot Robbie, reprising her role from the first Suicide Squad and from Birds Of Prey) is captured and tortured by bad guy soldiers. She kills the torturer pretty quickly, because she’s Harley Quinn and murdering people should be no problem for her at this point, but then she does something even more impressive: In one fluid motion, Harley grabs a handcuff key from the goon’s corpse with her feet, then twists backward to put the key in the lock and free herself. It’s the kind of acrobatic trick that you’d expect an evil clown to pull off, but in an interview with The Hollywood Reporter, Gunn revealed that it’s apparently also the kind of trick that non-evil Australian woman Margot Robbie can pull off, because she actually did that move. (Gunn points out that her face is covered, so you might not believe it, but he insists that it’s really her doing that painful-looking twist.)
That’s probably the most surprising revelation from Gunn in the THR interview, but it’s not the only one. For starters, Gunn said that Harley’s little sidequest was originally a bigger part of the movie, so he started to cut it down while editing because he didn’t want to end up “pushing audiences away” by diverting attention from the action. Also, while editing, Gunn said he was “a little surprised” by how violent the movie ended up being—which makes us wonder how closely he was paying attention while filming that scene of Peacemaker and Bloodsport clearing the camp, because that one’s pretty damn violent. Elsewhere in the chat, Gunn mentions that his boss over at Marvel Studios, Kevin Feige (who is, of course, a producer on Gunn’s Guardians Of The Galaxy movies), visited the set of The Suicide Squad during production and happened to be there when they first showed off surprise villain Starro The Conqueror. That means it’ll be Gunn’s fault if Marvel ends up ripping him off by throwing a mind-controlling starfish into Shang-Chi or the next The Eternals.
Really, though, Gunn’s favorite thing to talk about seems to be Margot Robbie. He said she’s “probably my favorite actor I’ve ever worked with,” because she’s able to do so much with Harley Quinn and her and John Cena are two people who “don’t have a chip on their shoulder.” Gunn also said that he was able to sort of “become Harley” while writing for the character, and he referred to it as a “terrible, wonderful place to be.” THR suggested that he should just make a Harley Quinn solo movie, but he dodged that question while also hinting that he wouldn’t necessarily hate to keep making comic book movies—even if they’re “kind of comic book movies” that aren’t just “from comic books.”
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She did trapeze as a kid so it was apparently right up her alley.
The key was on the dude’s belt, wasn’t it? Not right up her… oh wait.
“That means it’ll be Gunn’s fault if Marvel ends up ripping him off by throwing a mind-controlling starfish into Shang-Chi or the next The Eternals.”Actually, WB having a stabilized superhero franchise that is on par with the MCU is probably the best thing that could ever happen for the MCU since Disney tends to skimp on quality when when they don’t have the threat of competition. Look at how the Disney Parks went from 0 to 60 in terms of improvements after Universal opened The Wizarding World of Harry Potter. You got World of Avatar, Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge, and Avengers Campus. If WB can basically flush out what remains of Snyder’s influence on the DCEU and actually make good, experimental superhero movies, Disney will rise to the challenge to compete with the distinguished competition.
Are you an audience member or a studio executive?
They are someone with a weird hate boner obsession with Snyder.
By all accounts, Snyder is a fundamentally decent guy. Actors have nothing but good things to say about him. And he can compose some absolutely beautiful shots.
But man his movies are dire. Everything is so self-serious that it sucks every ounce of fun out of movies that should be a great time. At best there’s a sort of “oh, that’s cool”, but that’s a lot different from being fun.
The same goes for David Ayer. His Twitter screed about “The Ayer Cut” of Suicide Squad makes me absolutely certain that his version of that movie is a joyless slog of very serious stuff (with a character like Captain Boomerang). That style is great with stuff like Training Day, but really doesn’t belong in the same zip code as a silly comic book movie like Suicide Squad.
Why is a film taking it’s world seriously a bad thing? Yeah, Marvel has their formula of light action-comedy, and it works for them but also leads to a stagnation. Because pretty much everything has be undercut with a joke. I mean Man of Steel had plenty of lighter moments during the first 3/4 of the movie. It’s just people weren’t cracking jokes. BvS took the Empire Strikes Back route, but then I don’t know how anyone could watch ZSJL and say that it’s not a movie about hope.If comic books, specifically the superhero variety can be all sorts of genres from serious, to action-comedy, to even horror. Why do comic book films have to adhere to a myopic idea that they can only be action comedies. I don’t know if the Ayer Cut of Suicide Squad would be a better movie, but at least it would be a narratively cohesive one. I’d rather see a director succeed or fail on the merits of their own visions, than a compromised version made by studio executives.
The only bad films in DCEU are Whedon’s Justice League, Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman 1984. The rest are good to great. Hell, no one can top Zack Snyder’s Justice League, not even The Suicide Squad which is fun and all but still lacks that epic ingredient when Snyder direct’s it.
It’s not weird—Snyder’s a bad artistic influence on the DCEU. Dude’s aesthetic peaked with Sucker Punch and that should tell you something.
You might wanna hit the dismiss button on VW0. He’s an unhinged Snyder Cultist who gets upset when people say they don’t like movies he likes.
I must say, he’s not really saying anything wrong, though? I love you, Lazzy, but this seems like an instance of you overreacting a bit again.
Snyder is an executive producer of this movie, but I doubt he had any creative input.
And here’s the thing, when this whole thing started, Snyder’s influence was always going to be minimal, because the movies were going to be director driven. Suicide Squad, even in its compromised form, still looks and feels like a David Ayer movie (mostly). Patty Jenkins doesn’t really have a unique style per say, but she tried to give Wonder Woman it’s own feel by filming Themyscira as this beautiful lush island paradise, and then the world of man as this dirty, overcast war zone. So, the idea that something like Shazam! would be this dark and gritty thing is a ridiculous notion. Had nothing happened with Snyder, Sandberg’s Shazam! would have been the same exact movie (Sandberg has even said that the movie takes place in a post-Man of Steel / BvS world). Snyder at most would have been more like Nolan was to him on Man of Steel, than a Kevin Feige. A devil’s advocate / an open ear for director’s ideas.Snyder’s influence on the DCEU is still there, and will probably be there for the foreseeable future as long as Miller, Momoa, Gadot, Robbie, etc… keep making DC movies.
Shazam wasn’t dark and gritty from the hero side, but the villain and his demons were dark as hell both in action and character design. They could’ve dropped some of the kid drama though. It was pretty stereotypical on that front. Like an early episode of Malcom in the Middle or pre-Urkel takeover Family Matters.
That said, I think the biggest worry with things coming from Snyder is less the ‘dark and gritty’ and more how it seems like he just has a bunch of scenes he wants in films and doesn’t actually try to make them coherent or sensible. I think Sucker Punch and BvS were the worst with that but MoS, both cuts of JL, and DotD, and AotD all kinda felt like a bunch of action scenes shoved together with little care for how they got from point A to point B. Character actions and motivations are also kind of all over the place. Yes, the guy has a good eye for an action scene, and sometimes the CG animation studios can’t live up to it, but in terms of an overall package, he’s kinda messy. His best work is adaptions of other’s people’s work and even then, he slips up in places. Like his attempts at symbolism fall flat because he spends too much time focusing on the wrong things. Like Kevin Costner in MoS being a pretty awful parent and hammering in a message that results in a Superman that apparently can only save Lois if the situation requires more than standing in the way of things.
My biggest issue with the guy is that BvS seemed more like a collage of
comic arcs put on screen with no real understanding of why the sequences
the film ‘borrowed’ actually worked and were considered iconic. I would
actually dread his interpretation of The Killing Joke. The worst part of the Snyder Cut is the fanbase’s insistence that it is what we would’ve received back in 2016(?) if he didn’t have a family tragedy when there is no way he wouldn’t have been forced to cut and edit that film down to around 2 1/2 hours at most for a widespread theatrical release. At best, he might’ve been able to pull a film split like Kill Bill 1 and 2 given the overall structure.
I honestly think it was a mistake to put him in charge of the whole DCEU setup as the best rated/received films in the franchise are the ones that he didn’t direct even though the highest grossing ones are likely his (I mean, the names of Batman and Superman alone put behinds in theater seats, the same way Sony execs could make an utter mess of 3 Spider-man films in a row thanks to interference and still make bank). That said, I think Patty Jenkins might be a mistake for Wonder Woman. The first film was essentially a WW1 version of the first Captain America movie while the second film not only took place in the 80’s, but had the same storyline/character arcs and overall archaic morality of a movie made in the 80’s. WW84 would’ve fit in with the Christopher Reeve Superman films far more than any of the other DCEU films. Cheetah’s portrayal was a waste and Diana pining over a guy she knew for a month at most decades ago made no sense. Particularly when you consider we could’ve had a film dealing with mythological creatures and someone like Circe. You could even set up Cheetah as Diana’s friend getting cursed trying to help/saving her life. I think there are a number of other female directors who might have been able to give us a Wonder Woman film that wasn’t so bland (but colorful).
Aquaman pretty much did everything Black Panther did (introduce a new futuristic culture that still relies heavily on melee weapons but also has lasers and superships in a hidden superscience metropolis) but the stakes were empty. It was just “lets attack the surface world” when we know that there are a number of heroes currently active on the surface world that would totally wreck Atlantis’ forces. Black Manta was pretty cool looking but he was a sidestory at best while Oceanmaster was little more than a brat with mommy issues. The set pieces were definitely better animated and Dolph Lundren looked good with CG makeup but the film was kinda empty outside of the actors seeming to have a lot of fun with their roles.
Birds of Prey: The Fantabulous Emancipation of Harley Quinn was a somewhat enjoyable film that probably should’ve been titled Harley Quinn & ‘Friends’: A Birds of Prey Origin Story.
Suicide Squad 1 was a mess that seemed to be a mix of studio interference and just bad overall writing. I mean, the amount of downed helicopters alone and the insistence to use helicopters to extract despite knowing what happens to them was just facepalm-worthy.
I honestly don’t have any real complaints concerning The Suicide Squad though. I went in optimistic given the director and left wanting more (Mostly I want a Ratcatcher 2 and King Shark duo film where they are at odds with some random villain like the guy that thinks he’s Zeus). I was kinda surprised at some of the characters killed off but was warned that Gunn had free reign to kill off whoever he felt like for the film and the only one that I assumed had full plot armor was Harley. I loved Bloodsport’s apparent use of salvaged Kryptonian technology (at least I assume that is what it was meant to be given the design aesthetics and they way they ‘unfolded’ aligning with some of the tech from MoS). I think this is the first DC movie I would rewatch without it randomly airing on TBS/TNT and me being too lazy to change the channel.
It’s worth mentioning that VW0 has an unhealthy parasocial relationship with Zach Snyder to the point that he thinks any criticism of his movies is a personal attack on VW0.
Sorry, but VW0 hasn’t said anything in this thread that warrants that kind of response and character attack. You need to understand that other people can have opinions that you disagree with, it isn’t a personal attack on yourself. The only one looking unhinged and having an unhealthy fixation here is you.
It’s worth mentioning that VW0 has an unhealthy parasocial relationship with Zach Snyder
You’ve got a hate boner for someone in the screenshots you provided didn’t show any of that. Seems like you cant stand someone who happens to like something you dont.
“Suicide Squad, even in its compromised form, still looks and feels like a David Ayer movie
Bull fucking shit it does.
The wild thing about all of this is that the inclusion of Starro feels like some weird backhanded response (or maybe make good) on the fact that Snyder cut the giant fucking apocalyptic octopus (apoctopus) from the ending of his adaptation of The Watchmen. So I guess good for James Gunn for making Zach Snyder look like a paragon of restraint.
I would say the original suicide squad is very much made with the influence of Zak Snyder cuz it takes about 50 minutes before the plot starts moving.
Snyder gets alot of shit but all the characters he has in common with the other directors have felt best when he has handled them. WB lost trust in him after BVS but all his Justice League needed was two parts or a skilled editor to get it down to 3 hours. If the Snyder cut version had come out when it was meant to, the landscape and the perception of Snyder and his DCEU films would be very different. This would have been before Infinity war.Endgame and even Thor Ragnarok and Black Panther.
His original director’s cut was 214 minutes, and looking at his filmography he’s always willing to compromise on a theatrical runtime, so long as he gets his director’s cut out there. So, if WB weren’t so deadset on 2 hours, a 3 hour Justice League, or even a 2 hour 40 minute theatrical version could have been way better than what they ended up putting out. Even Snyder has admitted that he made multiple cuts as long as 3 hours to as short as 2 hours 20 minutes to try and appeased WB, which was he was fighting with them about when he left the movie.
You might wanna hit the dismiss button on VW0. He’s an unhinged Snyder Cultist who gets upset when people say they don’t like movies he likes.
Imagine being such a little bitch that you ACTUALLY think you need to warn people to avoid someone because they have a different opinion than yours.
WOW, to be so insecure and pathetic…
Actually, WB having a stabilized superhero franchise that is on par with the MCU is probably the best thing that could ever happen for the MCU since Disney tends to skimp on quality when when they don’t have the threat of competition.
Eh, I wouldn’t say stabilized as of yet, but The Suicide Squad is so far their BEST film since that awesome first Wonder Woman movie. If more DC films after that have similar qualities, then yeah their franchise would be stabilized.If WB can basically flush out what remains of Snyder’s influence on the DCEU and actually make good, experimental superhero movies, Disney will rise to the challenge to compete with the distinguished competition.
Agreed. Marvel Studio stepped up the game to match with DC’s great Dark Knight Trilogy and it paid off. DC need to repay the favor and reestablish what makes their characters appealing and continue to make good/great films to challenge Disney’s hold on comic book cinematic genre.
I’ve been saying for a while that the best thing for the MCU is a library of great DC films. No one but the most die-hard of their respective fans gives a shit about Marvel/DC rivalry, they just want good movies. But every bad superhero movie contributes to the idea of “superhero fatigue”, and even the MCU movies can suffer from that. “Another ‘Spider-Man’ flick? I don’t know, the last three superhero films I saw sucked.”
“Flush out what remains of Snyder’s influence”I’m sorry, what? Snyder’s influence on the DCU was the best part of the DCU. Everything that went terrible for the DCU was purely because of two factors 1) trying to close to emulate the Marvel road 2) Over-producing and micromanagement from high level.Ayer’s Suicide Squad was rejected because it was just terrible. But it wasn’t his fault, they kept changing the script on him, and adding in shit he didn’t want, etc.Justice League only became better thanks to the Snyder Cut. Joss Whedon actually completely fucked that movie up, and I say this as a fan of his works.We haven’t even seen the Flash but by all accounts, it’s getting the same treatment as they haven’t been able to keep a director or script for any decent amount of time (though this has apparently changed).
“Disney will rise to the challenge to compete with the distinguished competition.”
Disney will rise to the challenge of WB making good superhero movies?
They don’t need to rise to the challenge, they’ve already done that part, dipshit.
Given this weekend’s box office, i’m not sure i would call this a stabilized superhero franchise yet.
It made $75 Million in the middle of a pandemic despite the fact it was already streaming on HBO Max.
Can’t really judge films/franchise draw by box office results at the moment with the whole ongoing pandemic with variants thing going on. Honestly, the industry should probably just default to a combination streaming/theatrical release for all films for the next year or so. Even if it requires renegotiation of contracts that were based entirely on theatrical numbers.
Yeah but that shit is complicated right now. It looks like the news is pivoting this to saying its all streaming fault but I think people are actually getting legit scared again about Covid.
We need Suicide Squad to meet Doon Patrol in the next movie and use the awesome cast from the Doom Patrol TV show. That probably would be the greatest comic movie ever!
well, considering that scientists are calling this one “the biggest superhero flop of all time” i don’t think that’s going to happen anytime soon
Snyder cut despite its flaws is still one of DCs better movies. I think WB in general is missing a trick where they can continue the Snyderverse and still make other Dc movies with other directors. They would be able to double dip on the same brand and have two live action universes under the same umbrella that could intersect on occasion. It could have been there counter to what Marvel is about to do with the multiverse.
I’d prefer Harley Quinn in more non-Suicide Squad movies. Margot Robbie embodies Harley, but she still doesn’t feel like she’s a
necessary part of the team beyond drawing in the most casual of fans.
She has an impressive aptitude for carnage, but without letting her
incorporate more whimsical clown shtick it could’ve just as easily been
provided by another lower profile femme fatale. In both movies her main feat is wielding others’ signature weapons.https://mattthecatania.wordpress.com/2021/08/07/the-suicide-squad-is-to-die-for/
She’s pretty much the only person with plot armor in this movie. WB may or may not want to make a Birds of Prey sequel, but they clearly want to be able to keep using Harley Quinn in places.
I’m actually somewhat amused by Harley and her plot armor. Just the sheer impossibility of her surviving these situations and flipping the middle finger to common sense and doing it anyway
Oh, I’m not at all complaining. Anybody who doesn’t want more Margot Robbie or Harley Quinn should never be allowed to buy a movie ticket ever again.
Not to rag on a fellow Aussie, but I never had much interest in Robbie or any of the films she was in until I saw her in ‘I, Tonya’, and then I thought she gave an amazing performance. I’m a lot more keen on seeing what her future has in store for her now.
Her fellow Neighbours stars obviously share your love of that performance.
Fuck. I can’t go to the movie theater again? Eh. I haven’t in over a year. I’m fine with that. I could do without Margot in the role or Harley period for a while. The burnout on this character for me is real.
She’s pretty much the only character in the DCEU that seems to have achieved some level of believable character growth too.
Even though the first SS movie is mostly… ignored, the growth of Harley as a character from SS1, BoP:tFEoHQ (thats right, full title acronym if I’m remembering it right), and TSS is actually something that is enjoyable to see. Gunn sticking to BoP’s use of Harley’s ‘animated’ worldview during the portions of the film that focused on her also was a good touch.
It puts the events of BoP in a new light when you consider how that entire movie was her narrating what happened from her worldview while what actually happened was several killing sprees (between Huntress and Harley), a full on assault of a police station, a gang war/consolidation (Black Mask, Zsazz), and then Gotham’s consolidated gangs being left leaderless, possibly leading to city-wide gang war.
Though, I think Ratcatcher 2 was the best character in the film.
Counterpoint: Harley works best when she’s the best part of an ensemble. Too much Harley risks Harley burnout. Having said that, give me my Harley & Ivy road trip movie, like, now please.
But I want Harley in an ensemble that feels like her role could only be Harley.
Yep, I understand. Typically, as far as ensembles go, Harley is most associated with the Suicide Squad, but yeah, I’d like to see a definitively Harley film, similar to her DC animated show – starring her, Poison Ivy, and a few other goofy tag-alongs, with a focus on her character arc, not as an interchangeable side-character. I enjoyed this latest Suicide Squad movie, but I think TSS as a cinematic feature has worn out. I think someone (if not James Gunn himself) can lift most of this formula and apply it to other non-TSS scenarios.
Thelma & Louise but with Harley & Ivy, where they feature a gag deciding to not kill themselves for no reason? I’m there.
And bring back Uma Thurman as Poison Ivy.
I’ve been impressed with how much Harley Quinn has grown over the movies. Her recognizing some red flags in Suicide Squad 2021 was pretty great.
Now we just need a story where she experiences the inverse of her and Joker’s relationship, where somebody is infatuated with her and does whatever crime they can to gain her favor.
Her #2 main feat is wielding others’ weapons.Her #1 main feat is looking shiny and pretty in slo-mo as the camera idolizes her.
Little known fact: De Niro actually shot all those people at the end of “Taxi Driver.”
Then he ate them. How do you think he put on all that weight for Raging Bull? That’s commitment to the craft.
That part I didn’t know.
Scorsese was like a god to those people. It’s a known fact Kurtz from Apocalypse Now was based on first person accounts of dealing with Marty.
I that isn’t true it should be.
It wasn’t EATING dead people that showed commitment — it was taking the time to slowly thaw them (after cold storage, so he could play the role of a young Vito, etc.) in an even-handed, thoroughly evenly-thawed fashion, that really proved his technique.
Back then method acting meant something, damnit.
It still does! He became a dirty grandpa before he accepted the role!
Jodie Foster was not impressed.
Finally someone understands how to use Harley Quinn in a movie properly.That said, John Cena really owns this movie and it’s no wonder they’re doing a series about Peacemaker. Actually, the bro moments between Peacemaker, Rick Flag, and Bloodsport are surprisingly good. I always thought before that Joel Kinnaman was rather boring, and that Rick Flagg was kind of a cardboard cutout character. This changed my mind. Then again, Idris Elba just kinda played Idris Elba with super powers. This is not exactly a bad thing. This is not a bad thing at all.But the breakout character was Ratcatcher 2. Daniela Melchior makes a surprisingly sympathetic character, and by her interactions with other less sympathetic characters she makes them more sympathetic. We are going to see more of Daniela. This is not a prediction, but a fact.Of course everybody’s favorite character in this is going to be Sebastian. Take my word for it.(Polka-dot Man? Never thought he’d be a sympathetic character in a million years, but here we are. His visions of his mother are… disturbing It can’t be unseen. Thanks James Gunn for those nightmares.)
Sebastian? Surely you meant King Shark.
I’m a Weasel man, myself.
My wife was sad for Weasel man and King Shark. She was like “They don’t know about living with humans”
I might have liked this version more if I hadn’t already fallen for the Harley Quinn animated version who is very different and eminently lovable
Right? I rewatched the first season which aired on Toonami/[as] over the weekend. My favorite henchman.
King Shark? The character that’s basically a combination of Hulk and Groot, without the charm of either?
I *really* wish they had taken more cues for King Shark from the Harly animated series.
I thought he was fine, but that character has potential.
This King Shark suffers by not being Harley Quinn’s King Shark. I can’t not imagine Ron Funches doing it.
True. Sly’s grunts are not as lovable as Ron’s performance. I still liked that we got a different interpretation, though. Variety is the spice of life.
For sure, it’s not an insult to this version to say the HQ version is better.
I can see why Sly’s grunts make more sense than Ron F’s bubbly excitement, in a context where every second King Shark is on screen costs a skillion percent more than any of the other characters. Within those limits, I enjoyed what we got. But I’d be lying if I said “OH MY GOD IT’S BEYONCE!” wasn’t running through my head the whole time.
From my circle of friends, King Shark is… King. A lot of people mentioned that that was their favorite character.
Doom Patrol relation – The woman who played his mom is also the same actor that helps Dorothy out when she gets her period.
You’re right! Never would have noticed that.
I want my new Doom Patrol now!! Did Dorthy beat the Candle Maker? Will Robot get a new body? Is Jane dead and her station gone?
Thaaaat’s what I knew her from, thank you. Just watched it last night and I was trying to place her every time she appeared.
Nice catch. That was a sweet moment and it caught me off guard.
Everybodys fav character will be Milton.
Who’s Milton?
Oh come on. Milton man, he’s been here the whole time.
I would have remembered a Milton, it’s not a common name.
“He’s been with us the whole time!!!”I gotta admit Milton and his pay off was one of the best constructed stealth jokes I have seen in years. Went from thinking “Who is that guy, did they cut a scene” to going “Ah, I get it”
Throughout the film, in a very darkly humorous way, Gunn was making a point about disposably humans (including this movie’s audience) treat other living beings. We all laughed at the Milton joke as a film audience because we didn’t really care about Milton either.
I stand corrected.
we just had a three hour conversation about how your name is milton!
I absolutely agree with everything you said – especially with regards to Daniela Melchior’s performance. I was expecting Ratcatcher 2 to be a very snarky, hard-bitten character and was happily surprised by how non-douchey she was. Which easily could’ve fallen into cliche if played as a naif – which Melchior did *not* do. It would be hard to stand out in a cast of actors that make interesting choices performance-wise. But Melchior successfully did it.
Exactly. A well reasoned analysis that I agree with. And Taika as her Dad was the cameo we all needed.
Snyder was constantly suggesting moments where Jared Leto could join, Leto was sitting in the parking lot for the first couple weeks until he understood there was not going to be a cameo or end credits scenes featuring his Joker.
Does Idris Elba defeat the antagonists with his smoldering intensity alone?
No, but it’s possible he defeats his allies that way.
“I am aware of the effect I have on adversaries.”
I thought Birds of Prey used her very well also.
So many many problems with BOP. I wanted to like it, but really couldn’t.Among them:
Agree with all your points. Especially about Sebastian.
Echo the love for Melchior. She’s the MVP of the movie for me. Hope we see more of here.Still, no mention of MILTON?
Who’s Milton?
Honestly, Harley’s best portrayals are the cartoon on HBO Max and Birds of Prey. She just has far more personality in Birds of Prey than The Suicide Squad, even though she gets a great single speech in TSS.
John Cena and Joel Kinnaman acted the hell out of that fight scene. I was so fucking gutted when Flagg dies.I wish Polka’s death wasn’t so flippant, though. Even with his hero moment right before, it seems unnecessarily cruel in a movie that’s already full of vile, gory, throwaway deaths.
I agree. I was genuinely disappointed that they killed of Flagg because he was such a likable presence in this movie. I also feel they shouldn’t have undercut PDM’s superhero moment. They could have killed him off performing something heroic like saving Elba’s character and not been so flippant, as you put it.
Honestly I ok with his death. He got to feel he was really being a hero, internalized some kind of redemption, and didnt have that shattered being sent back to jail. He also was released from a life where he was being eaten by a virus day after day. And he didnt suffer.
I was hoping Flagg would have lived. Joel was having a hell of time obviously this go around.
I was just really happy that WB/DC let James Gunn really go crazy with the kill count and that Gunn went all in. Also really used that R rating. Its kinda amazing how the David Ayers “Serious Suicide Squad” feels much more tame and neutered then the Gunn’s silly version with wacky villains and jokes.
I’m sure there’s a better version of Ayer’s Squad somewhere, but one of its problem from the word “go” is that he put in many well-known characters that we just know were gonna make it. Sure enough, only the two relative unknown(El Diablo and Slipknot) were the ones to bite it.I don’t really blame the movie for that, though. It might not have been considered logistically optimal back then to do what Gunn did with the “Disposable Squad” in this one.
“Then again, Idris Elba just kinda played Idris Elba with super powers. This is not exactly a bad thing. This is not a bad thing at all.”I’ve found that anything with Elba in it is always worth watching. He is just…awesome, regardless of the role.
ONCE AGAIN, NO LOVE FOR MILTON.
I was pretty annoyed that 4 of the team members’ abilities boiled down to “is good at things”
Sebastian, King Shark, and Ratcatcher were easily the best. Actually, Ratcatcher and King Shark’s interactions were what made it work. But you’re 100% right that this is the best Harley Quinn we’ve gotten on film. I’d watch more of that.
Ratcatcher 2 was the best by far. The scene with her and Bloodsport in the bus made me cry. I knew peacemaker wouldn’t get to kill her but her being so scared and telling him “just destroy the drive, you don’t have to kill me” was so fucking well acted. I wanted to run in there and help her and get my ass kicked by John Cena.
I felt the second act Harley stuff kinda dragged the movie a bit and felt like reshoots based on notes from execs saying “More Harley, people love her”That or it was a lot of work to figure out how to get her into a fancy red gown for half the movie. It just felt tacked on to me
The interesting thing is, the whole “rescue Harley” thing was originally supposed to be the A plot instead of the B plot. According to James Gunn, they toned that part down considerably. Which I think I agree with you needed to be toned down more. It feels like we have two movies going on here. Like the whole Starro and The Thinker plot is the one that feels tacked on to me. I felt like the whole original plot was to take out President whats-his-name, Harley got captured, then the rest would be the Suicide Squad rescuing her (Only to find she didn’t need to be rescued.) Cue the chopper.This is not a perfect movie by any stretch. It’s just considerably better than Suicide Squad. I actually care about most of these characters, even the ones that got splatted early on. Hell, this movie even made me care about Rick Flag. o.O The rice-cracker of comic book characters.
Totally agree, at the end of the day this movie was fun. Something that I can not say for the original Suicide Squad.
I definitely can’t imagine the Starro stuff not being in, as it pretty much cements it as a “America fucks up a foreign country” movie.
Harley just isn’t that interesting because she is there for all to see. I like her alot but she is far better when she is part of the ensemble rather than by herself for a long period of time. I think even the director of Birds of prey realized this which is why she tried to throw in so many characters which ultimately failed.
Then again, Idris Elba just kinda played Idris Elba with super powers.
Bloodsport has no super powers, so l guess being Idris Elba is his super power.
Bloodsport, like Hawkeye in the Marvel universe, is an unnaturally good marksman. Normal people don’t shoot bullets out of the air.However your point is theoretically correct.
Action heroes like Bloodsport aren’t normal — they are extraordinarily skilled individuals existing in a heightened reality — but they aren’t super humans in that context. Also: I’m not a physics or ballistics expert, but I don’t think bullets work that way.
This was probably my favorite use of Robbie’s Harley Quinn. She knows the character inside and out, and sometimes the writers know how to use that and sometimes they don’t. Gunn did. Everything with Harley was very fun, very funny, and very interesting to watch. Loved her escape. Loved the acrobatics. Loved her friendships with Boomerang and the others. Loved the Javelin stuff. That being said, I appreciated that this movie wasn’t just The Harley Show again. BOP was fine and all, but it suffered for that. Ratcatcher 2 stole the show. Peacemaker was really well done. So much so that I’m actually looking forward to his show now.
Gunn came from Troma films, which is fuckin’ tone perfect for the best Suicide Squad stories.
Birds of Prey suffered from too much Harley because they made the title Birds of Prey. Remove the promise of an ensemble piece and you’ve got a solid Harley Quinn movie that just happens to set up a future true team movie.
“Remove the promise of an ensemble piece”
And then people are wondering why it’s called Harley Quinn when it’s ABSOLUTELY a fucking ensemble piece?
No, BOP suffered from the studio not understanding the fans. Ppl wanted ‘Harley and her friends go on a rampage while having fun’.. But got ‘Harley is hurt, alone, and on the run.’
technically they renamed it ‘harley quinn: birds of prey’! you got your wish!
technically technically it had that absurd long title that i can’t remember and will not be looking up
I enjoyed BoP but I will always be disappointed with slapping Cassandra Cain’s name on Ella Jay Basco’s character. One of those, they just wanted name recognition for the character with keeping nothing from the actual character.
I just watched Birds of Prey last night, and I was surprised by how much I enjoyed the whole affair. I had read a couple of reviews, so I was prepared for the fact that Harley Quinn is basically the main character.As far as self-aware, fourth-wall-breaking superhero films go, I thought Birds of Prey was light years beyond Deadpool. And it looks like they actually spent time choreographing the fights. They were actually exciting and clever, which so rarely happens in superhero movies these days.
Yes, Harley was portrayed as an utter force of nature, but not the main character. She stole every scene she was in, but she was also left as a wild card, not the prime mover, because a manic-pixie-murder-clown can’t drive the plot forward the same way that people with goals and the ability to stick to them do.I am still utterly enchanted with both her escape scene and the scene where she “breaks up” with her new boyfriend. What a pleasure to see Robbie used as vibrant character with momentum and not just an excuse to have a hot chick in bootie shorts.
Reminded me of the Mystique scene in X3. This was a good scene and the best depiction of Live action Harley.
Unpopular opinion: I found Harley kind of annoying. This is the first thing I saw this Harley in, and wanted an open mind, but maybe it’s the accent? I don’t know. Cena definitely did a great job and really killed some delivery of lines that’d be easy to botch. And I still say Pete Davidson and Nathan Fillion deserve a movie together.
You don’t have personalised license plates, do you?
Coughs without covering their mouth?
The look on Peacemaker’s face in response to “Peacemaker, what a joke.” was probably the best acting Cena has ever done. Ratcatcher 2 is better at stealing the movie than she was at stealing from banks.
I like Dwayne Johnson in my movies, but damn if John Cena’s acting in this movie alone didn’t run circles around Johnson’s acting chops.
Johnson’s best acting comes when he’s not playing ‘the tough guy’. He was great in Pain and Gain as an idiot cokehead weightlifter and some of his lower budget roles actually required him to act outside his niche. I think wrestlers in general get the same typecasting and it takes some kind of breakout performance for them to be able to get to be more than ‘Strong person’. Dave Bautista faced the same issue despite trying a variety of characters. I think there was a planned sequence for him in the Blade Runner sequence that never got filmed.
Cena definitely stepped up his game for Suicide Squad though. I watched it and Fast and Furious 9 back to back and he is just way more emotive in Suicide Squad even while playing a tough guy. F9 essentially had the actor playing his younger self do all the non-tough guy acting.
Dave Bautista is absolutely in the Blade Runner sequel – the very first scene. He plays a soft-spoken, bookish guy who throws Ryan Gosling through a wall – it’s the perfect role for him. It’s a pretty good movie if you have 150 minutes to kill.
Supposedly he had a bigger role than that short portion and it got cut.
I think Johnson could go there acting-wise if he wanted to, but he chose to position himself as a brand first rather than an actor, so we get stuff like “Gotta give as good as I get in fight scenes” clause in his contract.Bautista, even with his relatively type-cast roles, seems like someone who does it for the craft, if you allow me to be cheesy for a bit. Same with Cena, from what I’ve seen. Johnson seems to treat acting strictly as work.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, k.
Do y’all not remember Blockers? That speech to his daughter at the end made me tear up and I don’t even have/want kids.
John Cena was really surprising in this movie. He had excellent comedic timing.
Pete Davidson getting his face blown off was the highlight of the movie.
Harley is, in fact, very annoying. That’s intentional. She’s also surprisingly resourceful and a fascinating presence in the projects that use her well (aka, everything save that first Suicide Squad movie).
It is important to remember that Harley was canonically so annoying in comics (pre-New 52) that she got kicked out of hell after dying and wound up possessing numerous people as a ghost, causing tons of chaos until Martian Manhunter and some others managed to make her a new body and revive her.At the same time, she’s also one of the few members of Batman’s villain gallery to grow as a character beyond their initial role in a permanent manner (barring total universe reboots).Also kinda weird that she’s a character created for a cartoon and liked so much she got imported to the comics. Marvel did the same with X-23 and they’re both kinda breakout-characters who shine on the big screen.
Im beyond tired of Harley at this point. So I agree with you. I’m glad she didn’t dominate the movie but I still could have done without her at all. I don’t like Harley as a lead character. A little of her goes a long way.
Pete Davidson plays Nathan Fillion’s brother in The Rookie, does that count?
I have an inherent distaste of quote unquote “wacky” characters so her dialogue did nothing for me. But this movie made better use of her than ANYTHING else I’ve seen, including Birds of Prey. Caught an ep of the Harley Quinn cartoon during the marathon on Saturday and I’ll give that a watch too
I was really hoping we’d get more of Pete and Nathan’s characters.
I’ve found her annoying since 1992, but I dunno. People love her.
My favourite Harley is definitely the Animated Series original. Admittedly I haven’t seen the new animated series she has but no other interpretation (including Robbie, who I think is fantastic elsewhere) has captured the sweet, resourceful, naïve psychopathy of that version.And this film really highlighted how wasted Cena was in Fast & Furious 9.
Might like Harley in her eponymous TV show more. Apart from a few scenes, the series never does the Jersey accent. An accent I don’t love either honestly.
That means it’ll be Gunn’s fault if Marvel ends up ripping him off by throwing a mind-controlling starfish into Shang-Chi or the next The Eternals.
They don’t need a starfish, they have an Old God.
Pretty sure we’re getting him in What If… and in Dr Strange 2
“Gunn said he was ‘a little surprised’ by how violent the movie ended up being”The guy that wrote AND directed it was surprised? Hoo boy.
In one fluid motion, Harley grabs a handcuff key from the goon’s corpse with her feet, then twists backward to put the key in the lock and free herself. Yeah, it was a cool scene, and Margot is pretty flexible, but that 20 second sequence contained at least 10 edits. There’s no way she did that in “one fluid motion”.
my dream would be gotham city sirens and then gcs vs bop. at minimum, i’ll settle for a 1-second cameo scene with ivy and harley together or even a mention! harley mentioning she has or met a ginger gal pal in a throwaway line. i will take the smallest crumb. wb really hates ivy and they definitely don’t want to present harley as queer in the movies.
The need to ground comic book movies and not include their more fantastical and, plainly put, goofy and stupid elements has been what’s seriously hurt the superhero film genre for decades now. The MCU was becoming extremely sterile and bland leaning entirely on epic plots, barren colorless cinematography and Avatar-esque scores until Gunn came in and finally added in some personality and charm.I understand if you are adapting Joker or Batman if you wanna make something super realistic and shy away from the comic book-y elements of the Dark Knight, but you’re making a goddamn comic book superhero movie…have some fun with it and pull from the pages with weird and out there stuff…it’s all there already. Gunn and Waititi absolutely revitalized the genre with films that didn’t shy away from batshit costumes, weird characters and plotlines that went in insane directions. And thankfully you can tell their impact was well observed by the higher ups.There is something absolutely delightful and creative and just absurdly fun when you really stop and think about what you’re watching on screen. In this case of The Suicide Squad that moment for me was when I was witnessing an absolutely marvelously shot clown woman floating in the cosmic goopy eye liquid of a kaiju space starfish as thousands of rats swam around her and began gnawing on the monster’s entrails. Like….wtf!? But that’s what a comic book film SHOULD BE. Have fun with it and make the craziest concepts happen.Gunn proved that once again with this film. From the goofy costumes of Peacekeeper to the piranha alien fish that tried to kill King Shark…don’t think your audiences only want cool and serious and grounded crap. Be weird. It’s a comic book movie, dammit.(If MCU was anything like DC now, Fing Fang Foom would totally show up in Shang Chi with his goofy ass pants for sure. And I’d be thrilled)
Gunn points out that her face is covered, so you might not believe it, but he insists that it’s really her doing that painful-looking twist.And as a fellow Australian, I’m sure Ms Robbie would understand when I say: “Wow… sounds like bullshit Jimmy!”
A little internet sleuthing turns up, “She was enrolled in a circus school by her mother, where she excelled in trapeze, in which she received a certificate at age eight.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margot_Robbie
After she did that elevator wall run-flip, in heels, without wires for the first Suicide Squad… I’m prepared to believe she pulled off at least most of the chain stunt.
Yeah, because there is any reason in the world to lie about something that doesn’t matter at all like this, right dipshit?
So they’re still going with the old, “I did my own stunts!” thing, huh. Even though everyone knows that’s total bullshit. Yeah, if Margot Robbie could actually do that I’m 1000% certain you’d cut it so nobody thinks its actually her. Sounds very real and like a thing that actually happened.
Sounds like something that any person in the history of time would waste time and energy lying about, right?
LMAO. You don’t think Margot Robbie could do that? Have you not seen any of her other stunt and wire work?
She never said that she did her own stunts, the director was the one who actually said that.
Im still pissed about Flagg. That is a win for the movie in itself. Flagg was the worst character and had the worst lines in the Ayer version
But he had the most iconic line /s“This is Katana. She’s got my back. She can cut all of you in half with one sword stroke, just like mowing the lawn. I would advise not getting killed by her. Her sword traps the souls of its victims.”
A line that handily encompasses Katana’s entire characterisation in the film.
Those lines rule, though.
My eyes were already rolling by the time he had finished pronouncing ‘Katana’. He makes the sentence last a few weeks.
“Flagg was the worst character and had the worst lines in the Ayer version”
Did you only watch the Flagg scenes?
Yeah making Flagg likeable was a feat. Also Gunn not being afraid to make Waller be the bad person she really is was great as well. Waller’s comic persona has changed based on writers but she is best when you realize that she is just as bad as the villains she is sending to die
Waller was good in this, a little under used I thought. She was one of the only good things in the other Suicide Squad too.
Some great deadpan from Viola Davis. Peacemaker: Starfish is slang for butthole. Think there’s any connection? Waller: No.
I thought it was just me that really rooted for Flagg in this movie(‘cause I’ve been watching For All Mankind and Joel Kinnaman is magnetic in that as the lead) but I’m glad to see many loved Flagg too.
So – my fantasies about her are totally realistic… I’ve said enough…
“[N]on-evil Australian woman Margot Robbie”.Well, let’s not jump to any conclusions. We Australians are known for being, on the whole, deeply racist and unnecessarily aggressive.
those games of knifey-spooney can get vicious quickly
Im totally in love wit Margot Robbie lol but honestly I REALLY liked John Cena in this and I really didn’t think I would. TBH the best line in the movie to me is during the beach landing and Cena said something along the lines of, “If this beach was covered in dicks……I’d eat all the dicks” I laughed my fucking ass off at that, just seeing him deliver that line dead pan was worth it. Probably the same reason why Bautista’s Drax was my favorite character in Guardians.
I mean, Peacemaker = Drax, King Shark = Groot, and so on, is a pretty clear comparison (not 1:1 by any means, but shows Gunn taking his best ideas from other movies and repurposing them for this one – which is no bad thing!).
Yeah, if I hadn’t known this was a Gunn movie while seeing it, I would immediately have said afterwards “that reminded me a lot of Guardians.” Not a bad thing at all, and this movie was great of its own accord.
True but where the Guardians are a PG-13 MCU movie, so the character all have to end up likeable and not really “bad” guys. Gunn was free here to make funny interesting characters that were still bad guys and assholes. Like Peacekeeper was funny and a lot of the comic relief but also menacing as shit in the 3rd act.
“Gunn revealed that it’s apparently also the kind of trick that non-evil Australian woman Margot Robbie can pull off”
WWWWWOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!Imagine a young, fit woman in the prime of her life being able to BEND AT THE WAIST!!!!
TARANTINO APPROVED
I wanted to like this movie, I really did. I enjoyed BoP.
but it seemed to just be a largely plot and character development free nonstop attempt to make each scene gorier than the last. the bad guys were cardboard cutouts of bad guy tropes, Cena and Elba were flat and uninteresting.
polkadot man and ratgirl were ok, shark dude was a waste of space.
This movie ended up being surprisingly fine.It also improves upon the watching of Black Widow, which was so awful I had to turn it off.
“From comic books” means comic book fans decide what happens and honestly after reading comments from those people online for a while I wouldn’t care what they have to say either. Just use all that stuff as a starting point because comic books fans are pretty much exactly like Comic Book Guy in real life. There was also ‘Batman can’t go down on catwoman’–because it’s not in the comics or some junk. ALWAYS ignore these people who want things to stay in comic book canon.
There was also ‘Batman can’t go down on catwoman’—because it’s not in the comics or some junk.Weird point, since that wasn’t a case of “it’s not in the comics!” and pretty much everyone including comic book fans thought it was some ridiculous BS.
Between this and Birds of Prey, we’ve had two consecutive strong Harley movies, and I’m thrilled (not to mention the spectacular animated series on DCU/HBO Max, which everybody should watch).
That scene was lovely. And I am suitably impressed that she can do those ribbon gymnastics. We already knew she could from the first movie but still. But every article I read describes this move as a startling contortion. She lifted her feet to her hands the way your body does it. CUT TO tight shot insert of foot inserting key with lock sound effect CUT TO Harley dropping to the ground. Very athletic, but not crazy.
Agreed, I don’t know what everyone is on about with that. She folds forwards. I quite like Robbie and am impressed it was her but lots of dancers could have provided that shot.