Marvel makes room for some great acting during an awkward parental car ride
Film Features The Marvel Moment
Is there anything more intrinsically Peter Parker than being trapped in the back seat of a supervillain’s car—but only because he’s actually his ride? Spider-Man: Homecoming spends large swaths of its running time watching Tom Holland’s Peter juggle his day-to-day life against his wider franchise obligations (sorry, “commitments to the superhero community”), which involves a whole bunch of explosions, alien super-weapons, and largely non-memorable aerial acrobatics. (Also: A lot more of Jon Favreau’s Happy Hogan than anyone could ever possibly have been clamoring for.) So it’s telling that the film’s most memorable confrontation deploys no special effect flashier than a sickly green light washing over Michael Keaton’s craggy face, smirking mirthlessly as he drives his daughter and her recently outed-as-a-pain-in-the-ass-superhero date to the big school dance.
As with many of the antagonists who popped up in Marvel’s Phase Three efforts, Keaton’s Vulture feels like a deliberate attempt to push back against the MCU’s harshest critics and the recurring “villain problem” they’d frequently called out—i.e., the thing where most of the universe’s non-Loki antagonists are boring as hell, wasting good actors in forgettable, makeup-slathered parts. By bringing him way closer to the Parker doorstep than Peter had any hope of predicting, Homecoming doesn’t just position Adrian Toomes in the fine tradition of friends’ dads who want Spider-Man dead. It also lets Keaton be terrifying as a man, rather than as a suit of CGI armor, riffing on the classic “dad talk” with world-weariness in his voice and a loaded pistol in his hand. Keaton’s Toomes sounds absolutely sincere when he talks about his love for his daughter. He sounds equally so when expressing his willingness to murder Peter and everyone he loves if he ever crosses him again.
For films that skew resolutely youthful in their target demographics, the MCU movies feature a real dearth of characters who aren’t at least pushing 30 as they punch their way across the stars. By making Pete’s big confrontation with its villain a dark riff on the old, familiar anxiety of being awkwardly trapped in a social situation with your significant other’s parents, Homecoming positions itself as the lone teen movie in a universe full of grouchy, aging dudes. Tom Holland nails the million or so emotions flooding through Peter’s brain in this moment, most notably a deep, palpable fear that few superhero characters are typically allowed to express. (His willingness to be totally vulnerable in moments like this is a key part of how Holland’s Spidey so quickly became the emotional linchpin of the entire MCU.) And as Liz, Laura Harrier heightens the menace step by step, if only by treating her father as just another regular dad; she’s totally oblivious to the blood on his hands.
But it’s Keaton’s scene, obviously: He casually underplays the most violent of threats, even as the manic energy that powered so many “You wanna get nuts?” flares up in tiny little sparks. The inclusion of these kinds of small, memorable acting showcases has always been a key part of what makes the MCU far more than just the sum of its frequently lackluster action sequences. Even the worst of these films—and Homecoming is far from the worst, even if it could do with one less run of “But what would Mr. Stark do?!” whining—has some sort of moment like this, a place where a member of one of the most phenomenal casts of actors ever assembled for a big-budget cinematic project can really cut loose. Like Spidey himself, these movies wrestle constantly with their place in a larger, less forgiving world. And like Spidey, they occasionally manage to do exactly the right thing, just in the nick of time.
247 Comments
As a dad with teenaged kids, I’m not sure why you keep mixing up who is the hero and who is the villian in this scene.
That Peter Parker is a menace!
I really want JK back as JJJ, down the line.
JK Simmons as JJJ might have been the most perfect casting in the history of film, and I say that without an ounce of hyperbole.
Chris Evans as Cap, RDJ as Iron Man, Patrick Stewart as Professor X, Maggie Smith as Professor McGonagall, Robbie Coltrane as Hagrid, Ian McKellen as Gandalf (and much of the LotR cast, to be honest), John Cusack in High Fidelity (and Jack Black in the same), Ben Kingsley as Gandhi, and Ian McShane as Odin are all right up there too, in my opinion. I don’t know about better, but probably the same level.
No disagreement that Simmons was absolutely perfect for the role, though.
Gotta add Willem Dafoe as Green Goblin. Dude didn’t really even need a mask, his actual face would’ve been just fine.
You forgot the dog who plays Krypto in Titans. Yeesh.
Well, the most perfect casting would be Samuel L. Jackson as (Ultimate) Nick Fury since the comics character was modeled after him in the first place. I wonder if Jackson ever thought he’d actually get to play the role after giving approval to use his likeness for the character.
I discount many of these and suggest that you should have equated McShane with Swearingen, the best example of the second choice being the best choice ever( originally, powers Boothe was supposed to be Swearingen)
The implicit premise was in casting someone to play a role adapted from another medium, rather than simply one that was newly written. Plenty of people ended up doing a great job with a role, but that’s different than doing a great job embodying a previously existing character, like Simmons did with Jameson, or the other examples I listed doing the same with their roles.
Yeah, but it’s a subjective choice and I say that McGonnagall could have been played by Emma Thompson, Judi Dench or others and would have been just as good . Could have had C. Thomas Howell or Kevin Bacon play Cusack’s part and still a win. Patrick Stewart was BORN to play Xavier, agreed. Jack Black was a secondary player, but really made that movie. Chris Evans IS NOT. The best choice for Cap, though I think he does all right. He plays Cap as a little naive, and Cap is an anachronism, but not naive…blah blah, blah. It boils to this. I don’t agree with some of your choices. I agree Simmons killed JJJ, though.Oh, and I think American God’s is weak and McShane is struggling to find a part in there. He is riding on his gravelly voiced persona but not really finding a character in all the nonsense he has to spout
But he is perfect as Winston in John Wick.
Agreed. All the gravitas you need for that role
Also CCH Pounder as Amanda Waller.
Which makes it an outright shame they only did it for animation.
One of the smartest moves this movie makes is not recasting JJJ. In fact, I don’t *think* Into the Spider-Verse does it either. Everyone seems to just know that it is fucking impossible to top Simmons.
It is very much impossible to outdo JK Simmons as JJJ, but man, I’ve had the picture of Nick Offerman playing the role in the MCU for a while now. I know it’s sacrilege to think of anyone else in the role, but man, I’d love to see that happen.
I see him more as an angry Alex Jones or FOX News type.
Eh, that got old in the PS4 game real quick. I’d like him to at least be funny.
Me too, but it makes too much sense in the MCU to lean into the douche.
For a role like that, you could get JK Simmons and let him riff off his old OZ character. He’d have to tone it down by 90%+, though.
Gasp!Make it happen, Fiege!
I was thinking Michael Shannon as next JJJ to be honest. He is a guy who is really good at playing intense and distasteful characters who seem kind of normal at first but the more time you spend with them the more terrifying they get. Plus, he’s good at mustaches. I haven’t seen Nick Offerman in a role where he seems mean enough to be a good Jameson, but I’m sure he’s a capable enough actor to do so.
Are you a Parks and Rec fan? That’s the tone I have in mind. Ron getting pissed was always hilarious. I think Shannon would be a little too intense for it.
I just can’t picture Ron flying off the handle at some of the insanely petty stuff that Jonah did. But Shannon can do both insane and petty and vindictive quite well as evinced in his previous roles. Offerman/Ron just seems too chill even when he does get so angry his mustache bristles.
JJJ is just an asshole. Michael Shannon looks like a serial killer pretty much all the time.
True. I mean, JK Simmons is only terrifying like 50% of the time (but when he turns it on, it is on!) and Shannon looks like he’s going to flip and kill somebody even when he’s a good guy. Though if you’ve seen “Boardwalk Empire” you know he can walk the line between an asshole and a crazy asshole pretty well.
Would a significant number of people complain if they eventually just brought back JK Simmons, or would that start too much drama about continuity?Alternatively, what other MCU roles would be good uses of JK?
No one would. The only weirdness is now he’s Commissioner Gordan too.
In the smoldering wreckage of Snyder’s Murderverse, I doubt it. I got $50 that says Matt Reeves recasts right along with everyone else.
There’s precedent. When they rebooted Bond they brought Judi Dench along as M because she was so great in the role.As for another role he could play, I think he could do a really great Doc Ock, even though it’s hard to imagine someone outdoing Alfred Molina.
Screw continuity, I would honestly love it. It would be kind of appropriate that in the infinite multiverse of Marvel superhero films, the one constant is that J. Jonah Jameson is always J. K Simmons.
Snap gets reversed, universes mix and mesh together, poof! JK as JJJ. If could happen!
I didn’t know it until my kid was watching it the other day that the newest Spider-Man cartoon also just had JK as JJJ, along with Clark Greeg as a version of Coulson so there is already established material that he theoretically is already part of a version of the MCU.
As for alternative roles for Simmons, though, he kind of looks a bit like the traditional comics depiction of the Vulture, funnily enough.
“I trust my barber” is one of my favorite lines in superhero movie history.
My defining moment for this film is Spider-Man going out of his way to save Vulture’s life after their final confrontation. To me, that’s Peter Parker, a guy who would risk his life to save someone who was just trying to kill him.
This movie really nailed Spider-Man, and the young, just staring out, high school Spider-Man. Peter Parker just wants to do right, and it’s hard work. The “moment” could just as well have been his day-in-the-life scene trying to help out around town, and getting it right maybe only 60% of the time, and his only reward being a churro. Yet he still keeps going, in the face of threats and peril and being a dumbass teen.
The “moment” also could have been when Ned dropped the Lego Death Star, because that was heartbreaking.
The entire movie wouldn’t be out of place as an arc of Busiek’s “Untold Tales.”
Think about how many Lego Death Stars they probably have to have bought and assembled so they could reshoot that moment without having to take the time to reassemble it after each subpar take.
7https://io9.gizmodo.com/spider-man-homecoming-went-through-seven-lego-death-st-1795971372
If they’re not using them anymore, I’d be happy to take on off their hands.
I said this in a previous column, but Peter Parker is one of the few MCU characters whose goal from the outset is to be a hero. The others have stuff happen to them (being kidnapped in Afghanistan, enlisting in WWII, having their hammer taken away) that lead them on a path to becoming heroes. But Peter gets his powers (mercifully, off-screen) and just decides to use them to help.As you say, that scene’s a great way to illustrate that. It’s not always easy, it’s not always fun, but he’s going to go out there and work on it every day, because that’s who he is.
Peter blames himself for Uncle Ben’s death. It hasn’t been specifically stated in the MCU version, but it’s been alluded to – when Peter tells Tony about not stopping the bad things from happening, I’m pretty sure he’s talking about Ben’s death.
Yeah even in Infinity War, Peter really only fights Cull Obsidian to give Tony breathing room, and Thanos just as part of the de-gloving attempt. The rest of the movie he’s trying to save Dr Strange / the Guardians as they’re flung around Titan.
Yes, thank you! It some ways it’s a very basic hero thing – risking your life to save the bad guy is sort of Heroism 101. But maybe that’s why that moment works so well – Spider-Man rushing into the flames to save the life of someone who was trying to kill him is a very earnest, unapologetically pure moment of heroism, the kind of thing a good-hearted teenager would think a superhero should do. The other option is the scene where Peter is trapped beneath the rubble. Holland does such a good job of selling the character’s youthful terror in the moment.
Something that struck me about the scene with Parker trapped under the rubble was HOW young and vulnerable he seemed. Trapped, panicking, and for a second his brain falls back on the training that a post-9/11 New York schoolchild no doubt would have: scream out your location ‘I’m down here! I’m down here!’ I was scared for him and with him in the moment. It’s impressive.
I loved his pep talk to himself when he realizes no one can help him but him. “Common, Spider-Man! Common Spider-Man!”
I like the part where his fans can spell.
Yeah that moment where his voice breaks and starts to get panicky he really sounds like a scared kid was a great way to remind us he is a kid under the suit.
The film makes it very clear that Peter is an actual child, and that full-grown adult Adrian Toomes is still willing to kill him.
The scene where Peter was lifting up the rubble is actually an homage to a famous scene from the comic.Though the stakes in that story, IIRC, are a lot higher than in Homecoming. Aunt May was dying as a result of radioactive blood she got from Peter during a blood transfusion and he was lifting the rubble to get the serum to cure her.
This scene was also in Sam Raimi’s Spider-Man 2. Neither film fully captured the intensity of those five pages in ASM # 33.
I love it when the subway commuters realize Peter’s just a kid and stand up for him.
I think what sold the “buried beneath the rubble” scene was his raw panic. We’ve seen superheroes scared, worried, even terrified, but we’ve never seen a superhero in full-bore panicked meltdown, begging for someone to help. It was raw and real because it’s exactly how a regular sixteen year old kid (or anyone else, for that matter) would react.
I want to throw up every time I get to that scene. Holland sells the terror.
I think it’s because we’re used to our heroes wasting their enemies. Or at least allowing then to die, I don’t have to save you, etc. so Spidey stands out and shows them how it’s done.
Does the rubble scene count, since it was straight out of the comic?
And most of those people who try to kill him are always his friends acquaintances. From his best friend’s dad to his college professors. If you know Peter Parker for more than five minutes you will eventually become a supervillain.
parker is kind of a smart ass he brings out the worst in people, really
norman osbourne, wealthy philanthropist driven INSANE by his little smart ass “quips”
That’s ridiculous! I’ve known Peter Parker for ten minutes and ….uh oh!
You know, you’re right! They even made Gwen Stacy a supervillain – or rather, her daughter by Norman Osborn Who Looks Just Like Her.
You know, I never thought about that. Everybody that knew Peter from 15-24 winds up dead, a super villian, or a dead super villian. Weird.
It’s such a standard movie trope, especially in superhero movies where the hero has a no killing rule, for the villain’s death to be their own fault, like in the first Raimi Spider-Man when Osborn’s attempt to kill Peter backfires on him. I loved that this movie so blatantly set up the Vulture to be killed by his greed and then Spider-Man saves him anyway.
If you can do the things that Peter does and you don’t, then, when the bad things happen, they happen because of you.Peter isn’t a superhero to kick ass. He’s in the game to save lives, no matter who they are.
“no killing rule” – I love that in infinity war, Peter basically brainstormed a murder for Tony, most likely without really thinking through all the ramifications.
I also love when he jumps in on the arms deal to save Donald Glover. “If you’re gonna shoot someone, shoot me!” What a brave guy!
This is of course the correct moment, but the Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man scene earlier in the film is so, so, so good. Pete being a guy just trying to help people is my favorite version of the character, and that scene showed that side of him off well. It also tapped into something Spider-Verse got at, being able to do whatever a spider can is dang fun.
The guy at the food stand requesting a backflip from Spidey, and then Pete immediately acquiescing, is the greatest.
Also, simply giving directions to an old lady who asked (and in true New York fashion wasn’t phased by his costume)…
I smile every time I see that.
It also makes perfect sense from a logistical perspective. There aren’t crimes just constantly happening where Spider-Man is going to see them and be able to do something about it. He’d mostly do what he was doing, which was just kind of hanging around.
Spider-Man: Homecoming
Wait, Spider-Man performed at Coachella too?
I thought people were saying Peter is Bae, not that he’s Bey.
Michael Bey?
Queen Bey does sound like the name of one of his villains.
largely non-memorable aerial acrobatics…its frequently lackluster action sequences Maybe you saw a different movie than I did, Mr. Hughes, but the for the most part I enjoyed Spider-Man Homecoming largely because it seemed to buck established tropes of previous Spider-Man films, including the needless acrobatics. No swinging through downtown Manhattan. No flashbacks to Uncle Ben. And none of that “We’re not so different You and I” nonsense. Particularly of note is what Redlettermedia called the “anti gay panic” scene, where Aunt May barges in on her nephew and his friend while Peter is changing out of his Spider-Man suit. Nearly everyone in the theatre I was in expected May to humourously overreact like in a sitcom or a Michael Bay movie, but instead seemed perfectly fine with discovering her nearly naked nephew alone with another teenaged boy.After a few initial sequences of learning their powers, the Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield adult Spider-Men seem to spring out fully fleshed out gracefully acrobatic heroes complete with immaculately designed costumes. But this Spider-Man is still a kid, still learning, still awkward and prone to making mistakes when going into action.And despite being a Spider-Man fan for most of my life, I gotta admit, I did not see that twist coming. Not at all. What other modern blockbuster can say they were able to pull that off?
Yeah, this is, impressively, the smuggest, most wannabe hipster write-up yet. Homecoming is much closer to being one of the best MCU films than “from the worst.” Even Dowd gave it a B, and he hates superhero movies as such.Toomes is tremendously effective as a big, scary adult who’s out of Pete’s league, and the fight scenes are a credit to that…while also doing a ton to show just how damn strong Pete already is.The ferry scene being *his fault* is a great touch, too, and Tony’s subsequent statement that “if you’re ‘nothing’ without the suit, you shouldn’t have it in the first place” does a great job of refuting the kvetching about Peter not being his own man in the movie.
Good Lord the nerds on this site can overreact like no one else.
Good Lord the nerds Calm down, son. We’re all nerds here.
Nah, man…he’s a COOL KID who spends his weekend mornings in the comments section of superhero features on pop culture websites!You can tell because he’s trying to make fun of “nerds,” (in the comments section of a superhero article on a pop culture website), rather than interacting with other humans, or engaging in some sort of physical activity!(It’s 4pm where I am, and I’m still recovering from following up a water polo pub crawl with watching the Celtics game, but the guy trying to flex on “nerds” is DEFINITELY the cool kid!)
Ahh, so that explains your overreaction. Remember, kids, don’t drink and comment.
lol.Reading is important, sweetheart.To quote Dewey Finn…I was drunk yesterday.That has nothing to do with my ability to mock whining children desperate to score “internet points”…hence this interaction!
LOL, you’re dinging me for reading comprension, but in your reply below, you’ve gotten all sore over me mocking nerds when all I was micking was your overreaction. Don’t smoke around that strawman.
Oh, I’m not sore. I just like making fun of people who attempt to put on airs about “nerds” in an Internet comments section about a superhero movie.That ethos, of course, extends to people like plumberduck (Hughes) whose desperation for a sort of “haute culture” cachet that the quality of his writing has, frankly, never earned leads to his frequent making bad faith arguments that anyone familiar with the subject at hand can easily refute.
“to put on airs”Yeah, I’m not surprised the guy who thought this ‘article’ was hipsterish nonsense managed to extract so much bullshit from one tiny ass sentence of mine.
Your willingness to go to so much trouble to put your words in other people’s mouths is your problem, not ours, regardless of how many fake laughs and cute nicknames you use.
Holy shit, I just read your second paragraph. Something wrong with you man.
Sorry, hon.“Airs” is the vernacular where I live, but I wrote this before I realized you lacked the capacity to focus on something for more than five minutes before expressing an (invariably ill-informed) opinion on it!At least you’ll have the rest of middle school before that becomes a problem – I really wish you the best. High schoolers can be mean to people who lag behind a bit, even if it’s through no fault of their own!
What’s with all the exclamation points? You seem really excited.
Yet somehow,I just read four comments in a row from you.
Your bar for obsession is pretty low then.
Oh, so he’s Nathan Rabin, desperately trying to convince us to ignore his incessant whingeing about how hard it is to be a freelancer and a parent…?
You’re a remarkable idiot
I’m not.
Of course not, sweetie!You’re special, and awesome, and sooooo cooo, and objectively you can say, that you have all the friends!
Nah, I have a fatal flaw. I lack the ability to obsess for longer than 5 minutes. So don’t worry, I’m not special, just another normie foryou to ignore.
Ah, gotcha. That inability to spend more than 5 minutes engaging with an idea, much less finding an insightful way to articulate it, explains a ton!Sorry for being mean, earlier. You’re gonna have a tough enough time once you get to 9th grade – my piling on would border on ableism!
I lack the ability to obsess for longer than 5 minutes….he says in his fourth out of seven rebuttals to a post he made 2 1/2 hours ago.
I may be a nerd, but I won’t be caught dead saying something as lame as “Good Lord.”
It’s easter weekend. Figured I’d throw a bone to the faithful.
The one instance where it isn’t lame: while singing Edwin Starr’s ‘War’.
This is AV Club! You mess with one of us, you mess with all of us!
https://yarn.co/yarn-clip/f5332d09-b1c8-4f07-8c6d-d77f833a12fd
Hey, that’s not true. Some of us are dorks, some of us are geeks. And every now and then a spaz makes their presence known.
Man I’m envious you can type replies on the coolest site on the internet The A.V. Club while slamming back a scotch and coke on the rocks while crushing some puss like a true Alpha dawg
Ewwww, scotch and coke?Don’t even joke about that shit, man.
I would never joke around, especially in the presence of the president of The Romp dot com here.I miss Jake’s Booty Call, dude!
I had to google that…but Jack Daniels isn’t scotch, haha.A jack and coke is fine, even if the only mixer cocktail I’ll usually buy is a G&T
Look it’s early morning and my memory is a little hazy
Some people on this site actually do drink some scotch and bang some puss. Not everyone here rubs one out all the time.
Jesus, does anyone on the Giz verse actually have normal amounts of self confidence? Its either the dudes flexing or guys that are afraid of real life women.
hahahahahahahahahahaha you can’t fool me
Why would you come to a discussion forum for an article that examines every MCU movie if not for a nerdy discussion? I mean, I’ll admit I’m a nerd and like traditionally nerdy things if it makes you feel good about yourself. Kind of thought we were over the whole having interest in comic books and whatnot is nerdy and worth making fun of, but guess not.
The surest sign of a friendless loser is their attempting to mock “nerds” on the Internet.
Boredom and curiosity. Not everyone is motivated the same way.
Not every motivation is good either. But I suppose if you’re admitting yours is to troll people because you’re bored, then best thing to do would be to simply ignore and move on. Enjoy whatever thrills you get here.
Should I stop taking the piss? It’s like playing slap cup with someone new to the game, at this point
In general, yea trolls feed off of replies. They’ll focus on one part of your thoughtful and lengthy responses and ignore every other part that they can’t actually come up with a solid argument against. There’s no winning any ground in those types of arguments so unless you find it fun (I certainly don’t), no point to keep going. Not saying I don’t get caught up in this type of back and forth ever, but have found it better to reply to people who actually want a conversation about the topic at hand.
Believe it or not, but this *isn’t* the first time Captain Dipshit has sniffed his way into an article, scoffed on everyone in it, and then badly attempted to swish his way out of it when called out. I’d keep firing. Then again, I’m an asshole.God’s work, friend. Carry on.
Honestly, my only impulse to continue the interaction stems from the fact that being an asshole to people like him helps me be nicer in real life.
Funny how that works, innit?
honey, you’ve made a billion and a half comments arguing over whether an anonymous commenter should have made fun of nerds. whether you’re a nerd or not, you’ve proven him righter than he ever could have predicted.
Eh, there was no argument. Just me making fun of him.Anyway, I had fun, and was nicer to the assholes I have to deal with on a daily basis.
It’s always nice when a rando on the internet buts into a convo with a blaring sign that says “I’m an asshole neither interested in nor capable of contributing to this discussion.”Stress relief is key to wellbeing!
Nerds are academically inclined.I feel like ‘geek’ is the better nomenclature to use.
Says a man calling himself “Captain Splendid”…
…go on.
The irony of somebody dissing geekdom when he’s got one of the geekiest names on this discussion board, that’s all…
Captain Splendid is one of the geekiest names around? You learn something new every day…
I get that not everyone likes superhero movies but the amount of performative disinterest in these articles is really annoying.
The ferry being cut in half was not his fault. He engaged some baddies who were indiscriminately firing an overpowered weapon. This, after trying to report the situation and getting stonewalled. Stark asked him to be a major league Superhero fighting major OTHER superheroes. Left him with major tech (that Tony himself would have investigated thoroughly and unlocked) Stark and Happy were assholes. They could have just said ” We’re on it” and things would have been fine. Also, nothing in that scene was because if the overridden suit. And who the fuck is Stark to boss the kid around anyway?
You do know “far from the worst” means “among the best,” right?
You do know that a writer’s tone conveys meaning beyond the literal definitions of the words he uses, right?
I love the scene where he’s in the suburbs and has nothing to swing on.
That one’s based on a classic Spidey comic from the 80’s, and I love that they included it here.
Your post reminds me of the Spider-Man game that came out after the first Tobey Maguire movie where he doesn’t sling his webs off of buildings or anything like in later iterations, but instead his webs just attach to the top of the screen and he goes about as if he was webbing into some invisible dome and it never gets addressed what he is attaching to.
It addition to the refreshing lack of gay-panic in that scene, it also serves as a great contrast to May’s reaction at the very end of the film when she catches him in the suit.
I would even defend the “wider franchise obligations.” The film does a much better job than other MCU films would have of making Tony Stark an actual character in the film rather than a glorified cameo by making him a mentor and father figure.
Initially I thought that Stark would hang around Peter a lot because he was trying to get with his hot aunt (I mean, who could blame him she’s played by Marisa Tomei) after seeing his reaction to her in “Civil War”. However, he really seemed committed to making sure that Pete gets to be well rounded as a hero and person and doesn’t sacrifice his education or formative years to only focus on being a superhero despite his responsibility. Like, in the comics Pete is always screwing up his education, personal life, relationships with people, career etc. to chase some powerful, yet abstract ideal of his Uncle Ben “With great power comes great responsibility” and Stark is offering a different perspective than we’re usually used to seeing in a Spider-Man story because he is a man who “has it all” even without his suit. Not saying that Tony Stark comics aren’t full of his own set of problems, but I like that he is encouraging Parker to live more aspects of his life instead of just obsessing over the superhero facet.
Not only is there no “You’re not so different, you and I” moment, the subtext of this conversation with Toomes is pretty much, “You and I are very different, and I don’t particularly like you.”
Also a great point about this movie being about Peter figuring out the hero business. The first two “origins” really glossed over that development, but being Spider-Man seems really hard physically on top of the mental stuff, and I’m glad this movie gave it its due
just to be clear everyone in this thread deserves a wedgie and their lunch money stolen.
I adore how this movie has such a casually diverse cast. Even the fact that Liz is biracial, which could very easily have been factored into part of the twist, is just presented as this thing that exists, worthy of no more surprise than water being wet.It took me an embarrassingly long time to realize Donald Glover’s character here is the same guy as Uncle Aaron in Spiderverse, which has some interesting future possibilities.Finally, anyone else have serious trouble not thinking of this when presented with Peter Parker as Tony Stark’s protege?
Laura being biracial does actually seem like part of the twist, in that it makes it harder to see it coming, but once revealed it makes perfect sense and totally organic.Although I’ll admit that when Toomes opens the door to greet Peter, for a second I thought that he had invaded Laura’s home and taken her hostage or something. Then I realized the truth, which was actually much worse.
Yeah, the way the audience gasped at my screening, that’s exactly how everyone perceived that reveal
To be fair, ever since Norman Osborn was revealed to be the Green Goblin, pretty much every supervillain that was introduced into Spider-Man’s Rogue’s Gallery has been someone Peter’s at least acquainted with. From his college professors. To former coworkers.To even friends of his Aunt May.In conclusion, a casual acquaintance with Peter Parker is a gateway to supervillainy.
To former coworkers*pushes up glasses, snorts*Eddie Brock being Peter’s coworker is an invention of the movies and cartoons. Originally, Eddie was just a journalist from a rival newspaper.
But even as a rival journalist, still someone who was acquainted with Peter.
Not really. In the broadest sense of the word, they were colleagues. They didn’t become “acquainted” with each other until Eddie became Venom.
J Jonah Jameson funded the creation of Scorpion and the Spider Slayers, Ned Leeds was brainwashed into being Hobgoblin, and Phil Urich was Green Goblin and Hobgoblin.
Ned Leeds was brainwashed into being HobgoblinNed Leeds was brainwashed in order to forget that he was had discovered the original Hobgoblin’s true identity, and then he was framed and murdered by the Hobgoblin’s successor i.e. he was never actually a villain.
To be fair, Peter was acquaintances with Rodrick Kingsley, the real Hobgoblin, who employed MJ for a bit.
I’m not the only one! I spent a few seconds thinking, “Wait, how did he already figure out Peter was Spider-Man, and that he was dating Liz?” before it all clicked. It helps that Michael Keaton still looks creepy as hell just opening the door to his house.
What makes it a great twist is that it doesn’t cheat. All the information we need to put it together has been presented onscreen by the time Toomes opens the door and proves Ebert’s Law of Economy of Characters.
I also like how quickly Toomes puts 2+2 together. You could feel everyone in the theater trying to will Liz to shut up as she inadvertently outs him as Spidey
I also like the change-up with Flash Thompson as a character; the jerk jock is archiac as hell, so making him an intellectual rival was inspired (love the way Marc Bernardin put it, he’s a “Bully of privilege”). Plus it makes more sense that they would run in the same social circle.
I will say that Remender’s “everyone has an abusive, alcoholic father!!!” schtick works much better with Flash than that insertion tends to elsewhere, in that it does explain why Flash would lash out at Pete, rather than just having fun being tall, handsome and athletic.
I liked that element as well. When Spider-Man first was published, it was a rare town that had more than 2 or 3 High Schools in it and most the kids had been going to school with each other since Kindergarten. So it made sense that Peter and Flash would be in the same situations together. But the population of the United States has doubled since then.
Updating Flash is also just a result of how schools work in NY. OF COURSE Peter Parker would be going to a STEM school. Which don’t generally come with an overabundance of dumb-jock assholes.
It’s also funny that both Atlanta leads have played the Davis brothers; Glover as Aaron in Homecoming and Brian Tyree Henry as Jefferson in SpiderVerse
“It took me an embarrassingly long time to realize Donald Glover’s character here is the same guy as Uncle Aaron in Spiderverse” well at least you didn’t have it pointed out to you in some random AV Club comment 6 months after seeing the movie.
HISHE kinda missed the mark on this scene; part of what adds to its greatness is that Peter doesn’t know the gun is there. The spidey-sense is not telepathy or clairvoyance, just more like a danger radar.
Yeah if Peter’s spider sense went off every time he was near a gun then he’d be on a constant buzz cause he lives in New York and also the same city as The Punisher. If someone is about to use a gun near him however, that would trigger the sense. Hence the “danger radar” you describe.
Man, Homecoming was just so much better than a second attempt at a reboot has any right to be. A lot of MCU movies are great in the moment but feel more rickety after you’ve had time to think about them, but Homecoming is sort of the opposite: a lot of fun as you watch it, and then when I thought back on it later I found myself impressed with how well so many individual scenes worked, and how fantastically they nailed both the hero and the villain (especially since the Vulture has always been one of Spidey’s duller villains in the comics.)
The world is never in danger in Homecoming, and our hero’s skills never rise above the level of Just Competent Enough to Not Get Killed, but it’s one of the MCU’s very best movies.
And yet it’s amazingly not the best Spidey movie since the seminal Spider-Man 2, thanks to a certain animated masterpiece from last year. Good time to be a Spider-Man fan.
Hell, the story is about his skills *rising* to the level of “just competent enough not to get killed,” haha.He’d have been done for a couple times without outside help…which makes a ton of sense if you’re treating him as an actual teenager living in this universe.
I think the most (unexpectedly welcome) ‘Spider-Man’ moment of the movie comes after this one.After Vulture makes a very serious threat to Peter’s life and offers him the easier path of standing down and stopping being Spider-Man, Peter enters the school and with almost no sign of inner conflict leaves Liz, puts on the suit and goes after Vulture, with no intermediate scene of him contemplating what to do.It’s one of the few moments of the movie where the whole “Great Power… Great Responsibility” thing really shines through without them having to actually do an ‘Uncle Ben’ flashback. (I actually would have liked a few more scenes like that instead of those ‘Gee Whiz, Mr Stark’ moments)
One of the great things about the movie is how it never puts Uncle Ben or “with great power” in the text, but all of the choices are infused with that. It knows we know, and trusts that we get it.
One of the great ironies is that he latches onto Tony as a father figure, but everything he does screams Cap.
Honestly, maybe that’s what Tony sees in Peter. He sees Peter as a young Steve Rogers and wants to help him as his father helped Steve. When he strays from this platoinic hero ideal, he acts like a disaponted father.The MCU has nailed his heroism. Even in Infinity War, they make a point to show him panically saving Mantis and Drax on Titan.
He also views Peter as a chance to build a better version of himself – who he could have been, if Howard were more involved in his life.
Steve is the son he wishes he could be.
This. It’s the one Spider-Man franchise that makes no reference to the “great power, great responsibility” line – I think Garfield’s mangled the line into something else roughly equivalent – but it’s the one that really runs with the theme, for all it’s major characters. Peter has his powers, and thinks it’s his responsibility to use them as a hero, but neglects that his responsibility is to learn how to control them. Toomes gets his hands on the power of the Chitauri wreckage and sees his responsibility to provide for his family, but ignores the responsibility of people’s safety by making these weapons. And Tony has a more nebulous but important power: he’s an inspiration to a young superhero. He sees his responsibility as keeping Peter out of trouble, but doesn’t realise he has to also be a role model. The film is all about the extent to which these characters can grapple with their obligations.
Yep, he already knows he’s going after Vulture, his face is merely showing how nervous he is thinking about what he’s going to say to Liz.
I thought it was even better than that, he’s genuinely intimidated in the car and we’re wondering what he’s going to do, but when we discover that he intentionally left his phone in the car we realize that, even during the whole Dad speech, Peter was figuring out how he was going to take Toomes down.
“frequently lackluster action sequences”
Seriously, what films are you watching?
Hot take: This movie is fine. It sits above Thors 1 and 2, IM 2 and maybe Captain Marvel, but that’s it.It’s disposable in the way that the Ant-man movies are, but at least those movies are aware of it.
The only bad thing about this flick is Zendaya’s MJ. She’s so ‘cool’ she’d be the girl that everyone in school made fun of, nobody would ever talk to her. Other than that it was solid.
Clumsy though it may be, I don’t think they intended to have her be Mary Jane, though. Her name was Michelle, and I think the whole MJ thing was a way of saying that she was going to be filling in that role rather than the traditional Mary Jane.It is interesting that the love interest role has been filled by multiracial actresses in the more recent Spider-Man movies – Laura Harrier (Liz), Zendaya (Michelle), and even Zoe Kravitz voiced actual Mary Jane in Spider-Verse. Also, Gwen was voiced by Hailee Steinfeld, though it’s debatable whether she was meant to be a love interest. [insert Emma Stone is Asian joke here]
‘filling in that role rather than the traditional Mary Jane.’Obviously she wasn’t the traditional MJ but I struggle to figure out what even made them think it was a good idea to include her in the movie. Her character is bad and like I said there’s no way anyone would talk to her in high school.
I think that’s the point? She’s shown only at the end as starting to embrace the fact that maybe she doesn’t have to put up a “try-hard abrasive front” by offering that her friends call her MJ, even though it’s still a habit she can’t quite kick, likely because there are reasons for her to have begun acting like that. She didn’t WANT people to embrace her, but clearly she needed it, and her facade started falling once they all literally embraced her at the competition and then elected her the team captain. Nice kids do exist, you know. I never would have had friends in high school had two girls and this guy not voluntarily come over and eaten lunch with me repeatedly after noticing I was sitting alone and clearly initially not comfortable with people showing me any sort of attention. I thought she was a more than decent character, in other words.
It was weird how they cast Zendaya and then made a conscious effort to make her look frumpy on top of the try-hard abrasiveness, as if to scream “SHE IS NOT THE LOVE INTEREST, NOTHING TO SEE HERE!”. She looked like she was cosplaying Cameron Diaz in Being John Malkovich.
After the reveal, I thought they might have been setting frumpy “MJ” for a “Face it, tiger, you just hit the jackpot!” clean-up scene later (which they might well do in Far From Home).
She does look a lot more cleaned up in FFH; at the very least, gave the hair a rinse.
You can’t keep Joe Quesada locked in a closet forever. That’s why her name is Michelle and not May Jane.
I would pay good money to have Joe Quesada locked in a closet forever.
C.B “Akira Yoshida” Cebulski deserves it more. At worst Quesada is responsible for two of the worst Spider-Man stories ever written. Akira Yoshida pretended to be a Japanese person to get a job at Marvel.
“try-hard abrasiveness” is a great description of that character. I agree with the OP that she wouldn’t have been “cool” she would have been kind of ostracized for acting like that. Like how the “21 Jump Street” remake showed that people don’t really go for the stereotypical jock bully as popular anymore, being mean and unlikable to people doesn’t make you popular, just unlikable. Especially since most people in Pete’s school, outside of Flash, were nice and friendly.
‘She looked like she was cosplaying Cameron Diaz in Being John Malkovich.’Goddamn that is spot on.
There’s way too many MCU films now to adequately judge what I think should go were in terms of rankings, so how I judge them now is by rewatchability – because I don’t often decide to rewatch most films. A film can be great but it can also be a one-and-done experience for me. So if I come away from it thinking “man, I’d love to see that again”, then it’s a clear hit in my mind. And Spider-Man: Homecoming easily cleared that litmus test.
(Raimi’s Spider-Man 2 is still the best Spidey film though. Yes, Spider-Verse was great also)
I actually just rewatched infinity war and liked it even better than when I saw it in the theater. There’s so much going on that you just try to keep up in the first viewing, but the second time you can just relax and enjoy the performances and jokes…probably watch it again after endgame.
Infinity War cleared the bar for me also. Partly because it’s so jammed full of information, it’s easy to miss a line or a nod; and partly because it’s just so damn fine to watch. The Stark team vs. Thanos on Titan is one of the best sequences of comic book heroes in action being realised since the ‘one-take’ in Avengers 1.
I love this scene because it leans into Michael Keaton’s greatest strength as an actor. No one is better at playing someone who is saying one thing but is thinking another (see also: Batman, Beetlejuice, even the crappy Desperate Measures).Also LOVE the shot of the stoplight going green on his face when he figures it out
The way they light him with every line visible on his face is outstanding at reminding us that intelligence and experience can be even more formidable than reckless raw power.
Agreed, Keaton is really one of the most subtle of actors. He understands that the best type of threat or emotion is the one that’s hidden, unexpected. He does what he does better than anyone else. And yet he still had enough range to go full on crazy for Bettlejuice.
And 3/4 crazy for “Birdman”
And 3/4 crazy for “Birdman”
Michael Keaton is a fucking badass. The car scene was exactly the kind of calm, intense, with a dash of psychosis Keaton moment I was hoping would be in the movie. After that scene, the rest of the movie was gravy.
Just look at that screen cap. That’s creepy as hell!
He’s doing a Jack Nicholson face, ironically.
Keaton has that ability to play an ordinary guy who’s completely batshit crazy. You look at him, and he seems like a regular guy, but the longer he talks, the more you realise he’s deeply unsettling. I like that because I’ve met that kind of guy plenty of times: someone who seems like a regular Joe until they start speaking and acting really fucking weird.
That’s why Keaton is my favorite take on Batman. Just his body language lets you know that Bruce Wayne is damaged and somewhat mentally unstable. But he is capable of presenting himself as normal enough to pass through his social circles. Keaton truly is one of the most underrated actors.
Kilmer and Clooney didn’t seem like they were even trying to portray Bruce as damaged, and Bale’s take (as much as I liked it) managed to get the obsession and the sadness, but still seemed too stable. Keaton was the only actor I’ve seen to really suggest that Bruce Wayne is genuinely fucked up.
It’s a great scene, no doubt, but my pick was the “friendly neighbourhood” montages which showed Spidey as a much more down to earth type of hero, despite his incredible abilities. He wasn’t fighting monsters or robots or gods… just trying to find out whose bike that was!
“Do a flip!
Yeahhhhhh!”
Keaton / the Vulture is the best villain in the MCU so far, with the arguable exceptions of Loki and Thanos.
So, are we going to talk about Hannibal Buress’s PE teacher and the CapPSA running gag? This was a great movie.
“Patience…”
I haven’t been 100% with how lately, the movies use the cliffhanger-y scene in the mid-credits and the post-credits one is a jokey thing, but that one was absolutely perfect.
“Pretty sure this guy is a war criminal now, but…”Such a perfect line to give Hannibal Buress, too, after he basically took down Bill Cosby with one stand-up set.
I love that real public school system quality. “Well, yeah, the guy’s a wanted criminal, but what, we’re gonna get someone else in and record a bunch of new PSAs? With what budget?”
That is funny, but I always thought Peter’s nerd school was private. No?
To quote a long running radio gag, “I never made the connection.”
Him standing on the wrong side of the tv is perfect.
The way they depicted school teachers in the film cracked me up so bad. Not only the “war criminal” scene, but the shop teacher as well.They took a similar approach later in Ant-Man and the Wasp, with the “eh, whatever” hallway scene.I hope they’re able to keep going with that trend, finding different angles on them. It’s some funny shit.
“But take it from a guy who’s been frozen for 65 years… the only way to really be cool is to follow the rules.”Says the guy who went on to break the rules in the most epic fashion possible. Talk about mixed messages.
I love the half-hearted “Hey, where you going? Get back here” when Peter bails on detention
“So your body’s changing? Believe me, I know how that feels.”[Gets up to turn the TV off]
One thing I really liked about this movie is how they used it to give us a little window into what it’s like for a regular person to live in the MCU. From the “Fuck, Marry, Kill” game to the bank robbers wearing Avengers masks, those little touches really help to flesh out that world.
My favorite being a picture of Bruce Banner in the school alongside the famous and real scientists through history
So many great moments in this movie, with this one sitting very near the top. It’s always a pleasure to watch Keaton get his groove on, but it’s worth noting that Holland holds his own for every second of it. No small feat, considering how much of a powerhouse Keaton always is. What a great find Holland was for Marvel. He IS Peter Parker. My favorite one, hands down.Love Donald Glover’s scene with his hand webbed to his own car, as well. ‘Man, I got ice cream in here.’Peter having to run across the big open field on foot in pursuit of the bad guys because there’s nothing around to swing on. ‘This sucks!’Peter’s high school has some SERIOUS diversity going on. I counted at least two Sikh kids, for crying out loud. lol (Anyone thinking about yelling at me for that, piss off. Of course it’s a good thing.)The easter egg of Jim Morita from the Howling Commandos showing up in a picture in his grandson Principal Morita’s office, both of whom were played by the same actor, Kenneth Choi. Wait, I thought Jim Morita was from Fresno, ace?This probably should’ve gone in the Civil War comments, but RDJ is so skeevy around Aunt May. Always makes me laugh. When he first shows up at Peter’s house and is sitting on the couch next to May as she talks to Peter, watch RDJ’s face. He’s practically running a damn marathon with it. So many weird looks and funny expressions.I have a theory that every character that Martin Starr has played over the course of his career is the same person. Mr. Harrington is Gilfoyle after he’s taken one too many acid trips and become a normie.I love how much Zendaya doesn’t give a fuck about Peter. So funny.I also really enjoy watching how easily this movie sets up what could be the Sinister Six going forward. It’s effortless. Sony practically broke their ass trying to do just that in the TASM movies, but Marvel just introduce characters with vague backstories they could build on, and boom – Sinister Six. Stoked to see Michael Mando in that mix, too.
RDJ and Tommei dated in real life a lifetime ago. The flirting was another of the obcene amount of Gen X insider jokes I enjoyed in this movie. Aso, EVERYONE flirted with Aunt May. What a fun take on the character.
I love them putting the OG Aunt May granny glasses on Tomei, in the horrible lighting of that restaurant, as if any of that made her a scintilla less hot…
It’s funny that people don’t think about it, but it’s really weird in retrospect that a teenaged Peter Parker had an aunt who always seemed to be in her seventies.
Pulling a 180 to make her “Hot Aunt May” is pretty awesome.
Seriously, in some of those comic panels May looks like she’s about 105. Was there a huge age gap between Uncle Ben and his sibling, or did Ben go for significantly older women?
Right? It’s his aunt, not his great-great grand aunt. His father’s sister. If he’s sixteen and his aunt is, like, 70, then his dad had to be, like, 20 years younger than his older sister. That’s a weird-ass story that was NEVER addressed . . . ever. It was just a given that Peter Parker’s aunt and uncle are about the age his grandparents should be.
Did they? I knew they did some rom-com a while back, but I didn’t know they were a thing.I, too, would flirt with Marisa Tomei.
I heard she likes short, stocky bald men. *adjusts tie*
I read she has no desire to have children. *puts on pants*
When I was a kid, she was a side character in the Cosby spinoff “Different World”, and I had a total crush on her. And with that ensemble of great upcoming actors, not getting lost in the shuffle is no small feat. Then later she was in Cousin Vinny, which was just too damn awesome. And now she’s Aunt May. She’s a great actress, but also just seems like the coolest chick to hang with.
Blows my mind that she’s 54 years old.
Yeah I guess the Fresno quip is a joke but I like to think that Morita’s son probably moved to NY where he raised his own son, the principal, there.Oh my god, I’m looking forward to Mando as one of the S6. That’s gonna be amazing. Do it right, Marvel.Never thought what a pain it would be for Spider-Man to be in the suburbs until this movie.
“Dad, I know you love Fresno – you’ve spent your whole life here – but it’s a fucking hole. I’m moving to New York to raise my kids somewhere good.”
I took my test to become a black belt in karate in Fresno, CA. I can affirm that it is indeed a hole. It did have a very large Japanese population before the war(s), too, so it makes sense. The producers did their homework on that quip.I know far too much about my home state – https://www.californiajapantowns.org/fresno.html
Peter having to run across the big open field on foot in pursuit of the bad guys because there’s nothing around to swing on. ‘This sucks!’There was an entire issue of Peter Parker, The Spectacular Spider-Man written by Peter David in the late 80’s that featured Spider-Man stuck in the suburbs of Long Island with no buildings or anything else to swing from. He jumps on top of a bus but is spotted by the driver and told to get off, and he’s stuck taking a cab.
I saw the panel somewhere in the comments. Hilarious.
There’s a moment in the film where he runs by a Big Wheel, which is a little Easter egg to the bit in that comic where a boy offers to let Spidey borrow his.
Ladies and gentlemen, Jenny Nicholson:
Thanks. Hadn’t seen this.Hm. Alex McLevy..
My kingdom for some AV Club contributors who can write about the MCU without sneering at it every other sentence.
fucking seriously
Anyone who hasn’t seen Jon Watts’ movie ‘Cop Car’ should really do so. He’s got the same kind of keen eye for what it was like to be a kid that John Hughes had. Great choice to direct this film.
At one point Ned asks him if he can summon an army of spiders and Peter says no. But like…has he tried?
Good lord I just realised if there was ever a time to make Worm into a TV series it would be now.
The car scene is without doubt one of the best of the movie. Firstly it shows Keaton’s acting at it’s best. Compared to the hyperactive levels of Pacino or Nicholson, he’s always been more of a minimalist actor – minus Beetlejuice of course lol. He get’s more by showing less and when he does show intensity – as in this scene – it’s more of a hidden, mysterious tone which in many ways is more dangerous.As the article says, it did show that the MCU was again willing to inject much needed presence into it’s villains but making them more than one note. For me it was at this point in the movie where Keaton should’ve taken centre stage and his character should’ve driven the story.But instead we go to Peter running scared and then confronting Shocker, which completely undercut the tension built from this scene.
Man I’ve seen people come off hipsterishly smug in articles before, but wow
Homecoming continues to prove this study:https://entertainment.theonion.com/study-87-percent-of-movies-would-be-better-with-michae-1819572301
To me, what makes Keaton’s villain work when so many others haven’t (apart from the casting of Michael motherfuckin’ Keaton) is that the motivation for him is so clear and so “reasonable” (to him) that we can always understand his actions. And I think the movie makes his motivation clear by giving it to us in two parts: it tells us what the motivation is, and then it shows us. In the opening scene (“Guess you over-extended”), Adrian tells us he can’t lose this money because he has a family to support, and that makes sense; it’s a struggle we can understand. But it’s still a little abstract, and Toomes still comes across as a dick. But then we get this car ride scene, and the scenes at the Toomes house before it, and we actually see what’s at stake and what drives this guy. It doesn’t make him any less villainous – quite the opposite – but now we know exactly who this guy is and, significantly, that he’ll absolutely fucking kill a teenager to protect his interests.My favourite part? He makes Peter say thankyou after threatening him.
After he gives his speech in the abandoned warehouse near the finale, I leaned over to my son, and said “Well, he’s convinced me! I’m with him!”
After only six months in the Trump Hell-verse (at that time), I was all for “fuck them rich bozos! Take it all!”
This is probably my favorite MCU movie and it’s not just because Spiderman is my favorite character