In defiance of angry Star Wars fans, Rian Johnson is “even more proud” of The Last Jedi than ever
Ahead of the film's fifth anniversary, Johnson reflects on the "fundamental power of myth" in the Star Wars galaxy and our own
Aux News Rian Johnson
Batten down the hatches—we’re starting to feel another round of The Last Jedi discourse coming on. The movie celebrates its fifth anniversary in December, and it’s only right to mark the occasion with even more rigorous debate on its flaws and merits. Love it or hate it, it says something about the film that it’s still able to elicit such a strong reaction from fans.
Perhaps that’s why Rian Johnson will never disavow his contribution to the Star Wars universe: “I’m even more proud of it five years on. When I was up at bat, I really swung at the ball,” he tells Empire magazine.
Boldly tempting fate (in the form of renewed attacks from online fandom), Johnson even offers some insight into his approach to the film: “I think it’s impossible for any of us to approach Star Wars without thinking about it as a myth that we were raised with, and how that myth, that story, baked itself into us and affected us,” he shares. “The ultimate intent was not to strip away—the intent was to get to the basic, fundamental power of myth. And ultimately I hope the film is an affirmation of the power of the myth of Star Wars in our lives.”
“The final images of the movie, to me, are not deconstructing the myth of Luke Skywalker, they’re building it, and they’re him embracing it,” Johnson continues. “They’re him absolutely defying the notion of, ‘Throw away the past,’ and embracing what actually matters about his myth and what’s going to inspire the next generation. So for me, the process of stripping away is always in the interest of getting to something essential that really matters.”
Johnson seemingly moved on from The Last Jedi brouhaha to enjoy success in a galaxy very, very nearby (the realm of the contemporary whodunit). Yet Star Wars fans should do well to heed his words, as he hasn’t totally parted ways with the franchise–though it’s been put on the backburner for Knives Out, he still potentially has his own Star Wars trilogy in the works, and Kathleen Kennedy says he’s part of “our little brain trust.” The biggest difference in the last five years is that his influence over the universe may be diluted by the constant influx of Star Wars content. You can decide for yourself whether that’s a good or a bad thing.
275 Comments
I’m just here to read the salty tears of so called fans who still haven’t gotten over this movie in 5 years.
Rian Johnson did for Star Wars what peanut butter did for sandwiches. Some folks may not like it, and nobody wants it all of the time, but no reasonable sandwich connoisseur can deny its extraordinary and timeless contribution to the art of sandwiches.
I just got back from Sri Lanka. We have this stuff called Woodapple Jam which beats the shit out of peanut butter. Just wanted to share that.
It’s imperfect, but by FAR the best of the Sequel Trilogy. It was unexpected, beautiful, frustrating, thrilling, and, you know, we’re still talking about it. When was the last time anyone mentioned Rise of the Skywalker or whatever the fuck?
It’s mentioned a lot, likely within whichever hour one might read these words.
I imagine that that’s literally true. I guess I wasn’t talking about an aggregate of every post on every website in the world, and more about mainstream film criticism, articles in Empire Magazine, things like that.
Mentioned positively or mentioned at all?
Rise of Skywalker has been basically forgotten at this point, which is a far kinder fate than it deserves.
Seems to me like people still talk about it. Reminds me of how people kept saying that no one talks about GoT anymore.
Let me guess: you and your friends are still talking about “Lost”, too?
Not me and my friends, but it seems to me like a lot of people remember it fondly.
No one does,
What makes you say that?
Hilariously, a long running UK show had for all intents and purposes the exact same ending as Lost two days before it both in the UK and Australia at least (where I saw the UK show and walked past a TV showing the equivalent scene on Lost).(The UK show substituted a nice pub for the church, though.)
What show?
I’ll go one step further, it’s the best Star Wars film out of both pre/se-quels, and 3rd best overall.
I’ll second that. Time will be especially kind to this one.
and it still sucks, so that really says something about how bad the whole series was.
The Rise of Skywalker still gets mentioned. Just not in a good way.The reality is that the bean counters would have looked at 735 million dollar drop in grosses from The Force Awakens to The Last Jedi (to the point where they got beaten by Black Panther globally) as well as the hit merchandising sales took (whether the latter was directly due to TLJ ot not I can’t say) but fairly or not, I suspect they might have panicked a bit at this point and over-corrected giving us The Rise of Skywalker (giving them the box office and critical acclaim they deserved for that one).
I mean, TFA was the first SW movie in ten years, it was always going to do bigger box office than whatever the followup was (especially since TLJ came out only two years later and there had been another SW movie released between the two).
Jurassic World 1 did 1.6+ billion and then Jurassic World 2 did 1.3+ billion.Avengers/MCU films were steadily building the brand and movie grosses.The drop from TFA at 2 billion to TLJ’s 1.33 billion would be a big enough drop from one thing to the next to set off at least some strongly worded memos in the finance side of things if nothing else even before the drop in merchandising revenue (over 50% I heard but need to verify) whether it’s fair to attribute it to this film or not.
JW1 was 2015, JW2 was 2018; that’s three years, not two, and there wasn’t another JW movie between them to absorb some of the demand.The MCU isn’t comparable; aside from 2009-2010 it’s had multiple movies spanning numerous sub-franchises come out every year since it began. It’s totally sui generis.I’m not saying your original assertion is wrong; the difference in box office (and the noise from toxic fans) probably did make the bean counters panic and ultimately lead to “let’s just go back with the guy who directed the one that made $2 billion,” which wasn’t clearly a smart decision given that TROS only made $1 billion!
“and the noise from toxic fans”I really don’t think this made a significant amount of difference (there’s a Rings of Power article right now making this argument).I believe there was a much larger silent crowd responsible for that revenue dent. One who didn’t comment on the Internet or elsewhere but quietly voted with their wallets, going from seeing Star Wars films multiple times and buying the merchandise to as little as seeing The Last Jedi once and buying none. This also would have had knock on effects to subsequent films.Whether it’s fair or not, there’s a lot to suggest that this film was polarising and there’s a reason why people try to play it safe more often than not, the evidence suggests safe sells. The Rise of Skywalker was a panicked overcorrection and the cinematic equivalent of trying to turning against the skid instead of into it and the crash that happened as a result.(I’ll get to the rest later if I can.)
“(there’s a Rings of Power article right now making this argument).”
If you care to read the article you’d see that is is saying the toxic fans aren’t making AS MUCH of a difference AS THEY WERE only a few years ago.
I wouldn’t even give it the credit of being polarising. It was just dull. People don’t go and watch dull films multiple times. They don’t buy its merchandise.Given the toxic reaction to part of it it’s natural for some to then overstate its merits in defence (especially around these parts), but that doesn’t change how boring the film was in reality.
I believe there was a much larger silent crowd responsible for that revenue dent. One who didn’t comment on the Internet or elsewhere but quietly voted with their wallets, going from seeing Star Wars films multiple times and buying the merchandise to as little as seeing The Last Jedi once and buying none.This is what I believe really happened, just from my anecdotal experience within my extended family. Talking about the movie over the holidays, we are all huge Star Wars fans and all of us were lukewarm on it. I know I saw TFA multiple times in the theater but gave away my ticket to my second showing of TLJ- it was such a chore that I didn’t want to sit through it again.
JW1 was 2015, JW2 was 2018; that’s three years, not two, and there wasn’t another JW movie between them to absorb some of the demand.“Absorbing demand”, that’s not how movies work. It’s totally sui generis.It’s not. If you make movies people like with a coherent serialized story, it doesn’t matter if you make many movies a year or not.I’m not saying your original assertion is wrong; the difference in box office (and the noise from toxic fans)The noise from toxic fans was massively overrated. If anything, it was just used by the movie’s supporters to dismiss people who didn’t like the movie. In real life, I know far more black and asian people who have serious (ignored) concerns about the bad representation and marginalization by the movie than I do angry White guys who are angry because everybody isn’t a white guy.
I’ve had my issues with Finn being taught about slavery and learning to love being involved in a war of which he had little choice at first (boy, that scene with him being tasered has aged poorly), and being a Black man does make me a little sensitive to that kind of cloying simplicity.
I think the much bigger factor was that the story challenged some fans expectations in ways that they did not like. I truly doubt that issues of representation drive ticket sales to a significant degree, in either direction. Sure, some people get angry about minority, female, and LGBTQ+ characters. And many people rightly enjoy seeing some representation onscreen. But how many people are actually not buying a ticket to a movie they would have seen as an act of protest? Or watching a ticket solely to feel represented? The argument that TLJ disappointed fans that expected a more direct sequel to TFA makes more sense to me, even though I greatly prefer TLJs originality to the weak ANH remake that is TFA. I also think that disappointment in TFA is responsible for some of the drop as well. Personally, I was VERY excited for TFA and saw it a couple of times in the theater. Later on I realized just how formulaic it was, and I think some of that disappointment lessened excitement for TLJ.
to the point where they got beaten by Black Panther globally
Getting beaten by Black Panther isn’t a mark of failure.
It kind of is, Black Panther was even less known than the characters the MCU had to start with by the general public while Star Wars was extremely well known as a movie series by the general public. However in spite of that huge head start (and financially successful first film in the new trilogy as well as critically well acclaimed enough), it dropped quite a lot in gross revenue while the steady build of the MCU went past it even with the previously lower profile characters (and kept climbing) while Star Wars kept falling even further.
It
kind of is, Black Panther was even less known than the characters the
MCU had to start with by the general public while Star Wars was
extremely well known as a movie series by the general public.
Did you see it in the theater? Every Black person within 100 miles of my theater was there. Black Panther is very well known within the Black community and it was always going to be a big event when it hit theaters.
It might have been obscure with the general public, but even then, Black Panther was vastly better known than, say, Guardians of the Galaxy. I remember seeing little kids wearing Black Panther t-shirts when I was in elementary school.
I did see it in the cinema but am Australian and was in Australia.
And even in tiny little Murray River towns like Swan Hill people were lining up to see TLJ. (Honestly, from this entire comment section I’m stilll notnsure where you stand on the film.)
Every Black person within 100 miles of the theater in most parts of North America isn’t very many Black people. If it was only Black people going to see it it would have lost money. Star Wars has a revenue floor – no matter how bad a SW movie is, there is an absolute minimum it will earn just based on name recognition (whatever Solo grossed is probably it), and the floor is higher when it’s one of the main episodes (Rise of Skywalker probably showed where that is). Black Panther, on the other hand, could easily have sucked and made under $100 million. It didn’t – it was terrific, and it got repeat business in a way we probably hadn’t seen since Avatar.
I mean, yeah, it is. Black Panther was a runaway hit that far exceeded expectations; TFA failed to meet expectations. It was Disney either way, but from the suits’ perspective there should never have been a scenario where no matter how well Black Panther did that TFA wouldn’t outgross it.
“as well as the hit merchandising sales took”
Citation?
It was a 33% drop, which is weirdly consistent with all mid-Trilogy Star Wars films, including Empire. And TLJ was insanely successful on DVD/Bluray. And unlike RotJ and RotS, RoS did not see an increase from the previous film.
it was an over-correction in a pretty obnoxious and predictable way…first let’s revive a “big bad” since Johnson had to go and kill Snoke (who was a pretty good villain but I thought it was interesting that he flew in the face of convention and killed him anyway); let’s pretend to kill Chewbacca to give it an “emotional bottom” (but that was bullshit); and of course let’s obliterate the gay subtext between Finn and Poe, AND give them *racially appropriate* love interests. I hope JJ Abrams cringed the entire time he made Rise of Skywalker having to so ham-fistedly undo Johnson’s movie.
Demoting Finn to a more or less minor character didn’t help it either.
I liked TFA better, myself.
TFA didn’t aim very high, but it hit its mark. TLJ was far more ambitious, but missed.
It’s easy to hit the mark when you’re basically copying the original.
Oh, it totally did. It was like well-written but not particularly imaginative fanfic.
The Force Awakens was the one that confused me, because the world fuckin’ loved it, but other than being fine with the new characters, the whole thing to me felt like just a theme park ride version of the original trilogy. Just rush from thing to thing, do it all again, joke about how you’re doing the same shit again even, whatever, don’t explain anything, keep going, leave a punch of puzzles behind so you can sell shit about them in the gift shop, done!
I rolled my eyes at a lot of stuff from TFA at the time— “sure it’s the third movie with a Death Star, but our Death Star is even Death Star-ier than those other Death Stars!”—but I chalked it up to Abrams/LucasFilm doing their best to give fans what they wanted after the prequel backlash. It still introduced some fun new characters and provided a decent foundation for a trilogy. Then Johnson stepped in and really did take everything in a different direction…but his movie failed to make $2 billion, so LucasFilm mashed the panic button and made TFA, but even TFA-ier.
It’s not that it failed to make $2 billion (they would have been happy with 1.9, 1.8, 1.7 or 1.6), it was that it dropped all the way to 1.3 and a bit when combined with the polarised response that probably spooked them.
The mistake Johnson made was that he just made what he wanted without giving a single shit about what the franchise was supposed to do next. He basically jettisoned everything that JJ set up in the first movie (because for some inexplicable reason they didn’t have a payoff locked in for any of it). Then, after dismantling what he was given, he just walked away with the pieces left on the floor. I walked out of TLJ feeling like they’d just cancelled Star Wars without a conclusion.
I’ve seen every Star Wars movie (counting only the 9 main one’s) in the theater since I was 4 in 1977. I never want to rewatch Rise of the Skywalker ever again. It’s shot better and not as dumb but as bad if not worse than episode 1 and 2!
It is. But this is also like saying that Butthead is the smart one.
Rise replaced Last as the thing to hate but Last is a masterpiece next to its peers in the Saga
I like TLJ, and I’ll agree that its imperfect, but it really tried to make people feel something, which is almost unheard of in blockbuster films these days.
All of the sequel movies are a mess. It looks like they had a ton of pre-visualization and then wrote a script around it. There are scenes in each that are lovely and well-directed, but none of them serve a worthwhile story. The stuff in TLJ is more coherent than the stuff in the other two, but it’s still just…pretty weak and incoherent. If he had earned those scenes with Luke, they’d have been brilliant…but he didn’t, so instead it just looks like a middle finger to old-school fans.The good Star Wars stuff remains in the tv shows – no movie since RotJ has been worthy of the franchise (with the exception of Rogue One).
it just looks like a middle finger to old-school fans.That’s the thing, though. I am an old-school fan. I’m in my mid-40s, too young to have seen Star Wars or Empire in the theater, but the perfect age to have grown up on Star Wars books and action figures, waited in line for the midnight showings of the re-releases in ‘97, etc. And I legitimately don’t see what everyone’s so fucking worried about Luke Skywalker for. He had his Big Hero Moments in all three OT films, and his story was complete. And then, 30 years later, it was time to hand those stories off to the next generation. Having an idealist protagonist broken by the horrors of war and haunted by regrets over his own past deeds is PURE STAR WARS (which is to say, pure Kurosawa.) It was perfect. He had a full story arc within that single movie, and, in the end, sacrificed his own life to preserve the spark of the rebellion that he’d abandoned. It was beautiful.
Having 65 year old Mark Hamill kick flipping his sexagenarian ass around for four hours would have been fucking absurd, even more embarrassing than the fan service everyone complained about in TLJ.
Yeah, I can almost get with that program, but I just didn’t feel like the movie told that story well, and honestly the Luke part of the story is the second-best thing in the movie, after the Rey/Kylo stuff that is actually pretty good. I felt like it was undercooked and the other plot lines were either bad or nonsense.
I think we can probably all agree that the real problem is that no one actually knew where the story was going. Say what you will about Lucas, the presence of an auteur (or, hell, a show-runner) was the downfall of the sequel trilogy.
the fight sequence in Snoke’s chamber and when Holdo blew up all those Empire ships were IMO the most thrilling sequences in the last 3 movies. The whole subplot on the “Las Vegas” planet was a complete misfire but I like that Johnson at least addressed something I had wondered all along about the Empire’s “military industrial complex”. Definitely my favorite of the last 3 movies (also due in no small part to how much the fan boys complained about it LOL).
The movie’s not perfect, but it was literally breathtaking for me since, for the first time since Empire Strikes Back, I had no idea where any individual scene or the overall movie was going. After decades of predictable storytelling, Johnson flipped over the table and did new and exciting stuff.And the backlash to it means we might never see anything challenging or exciting from Star Wars again. (But hey, at least we get the big questions answered, like what Leia’s wedding dress looked like? What was Leia like as a kid? Did Boba Fett ever teach tusken how to ride speeder bikes?)
Subverting expectations is a pointless and empty exercise if it is not in the service of story, or any larger theme. In fairness to Rian, TLJ is just part of a massive cautionary tale on what happens when you commit to making three movies without any story outline.
“Subverting expectations is a pointless and empty exercise if it is not in the service of story, or any larger theme.”
Well then, it’s a good thing that the theme was so obvious that only a complete and utter moron or someone purposely missing the point might ACTUALLY miss the point.
“Subverting expectations is a pointless and empty exercise if it is not in the service of story, or any larger theme.”The larger theme was that societies which enslave themselves to tradition are doomed and only by accepting and embracing new ideas can we grow as people and as societies. There are a ton of examples of this throughout the movie but the most famous one is probably where Luke goes “THE SACRED TEXTS!” and Yoda’s all, “Yeah, fuck ‘em.”
And Johnson puts his money where his mouth is by making a sequel which deliberately avoids pandering to the nostalgia of the audience and instead creates something new and different within a tired setting. So yes, it was in service of story and theme.
Also, does Red Letter Media just plan to continue whining about this movie on a weekly basis until the sun explodes or what?
Imagine thinking RLM is legitimate film criticism in 2022.
Actually, I’m pretty sure even RLM are walking back their criticism of TLJ, possibly led by Jay Baumann. Rich Evans’ criticism of Star Wars has always been that it’s creatively bankrupt and as deep as a puddle. He should really be waking up to the fact that TLJ was actually trying to broaden the story and make it more meaningful.
Except the Sacred Texts weren’t destroyed. Rey took them. And that’s not a retcon from Rise, that was shown in TLJ. Also, what was new and different? It wasn’t the “anyone can be a Jedi” shit, since the entirety of the franchise already said that. It wasn’t “weapons manufacturers are immoral” because that ain’t exactly rocket science. It wasn’t the good guys failing, because there are two previous movies (one of which TLJ is a remake of) that show that for the majority of its running time. Is the new and fresh stuff the First Order being a bunch of idiotic dumbasses with no comprehension of military tactics whatsoever? Or the Resistance using paper mache bombers several hundred years out of date compared to the bombers used a few decades earlier?Also, that RLM video was 4 years ago. Once they did their video on Rise of Skywalker, they pretty much stopped talking about Star Wars completely. They haven’t even talked about any of the Disney+ shows yet.
sUbVerTing EXpEcatIonS baD, hEreS yoUtuBe OpiNion vIdeoLol RLM. Yuck.
Subversion is a very good exercise in cinema and denying it’s any good is like saying adapt a book verbatim is a solid thing in film.As for the frequent “but there was no plan”, let’s not forget the prequels changed course from the original one and the originals had no plan either.But if RLM had anything to contribute since making nitpicky satire argument videos of the prequels, they probably should have put out something of substance since then.🤷♂️
It WAS in servi- …. Nevermind no one wants to go down this road again.
I just thought the core of The Last Jedi was a poor man’s remake of the first Battlestar Galactica episode ‘33′. Given that it was over 13 years older than TLJ and made on a TV budget probably 50 to 100 times less than this movie was even more baffling to me.Original Battlestar Galactica also did a better casino planet (very nasty things going on in the basement!).
BSG’s “33″ was definitely better than TLJ’s ‘outrun the baddies’ storyline. Such a great episode to follow the pilot/mini-series
It’s a bad remake of ESB but made to be as stupid as possible.Instead of an exciting cat-and-mouse chase through asteroid fields, it’s a 2-hour slog through space because reasons.Instead of an ice planet battle with Imperial walkers closing in on the rebel base, they’re on a salt planet.
Instead of a training sequence with a wise mentor, it’s you’re already the greatest Jedi ever, you don’t need training.By the end of the movie, instead of actual character growth and plot progression, everything is right back where it left off at the end of the first movie.
It was also a remake of Empire Strikes Back, just with Hotham the ending instead of the beginning and the finale from Return of the Jedi jammed in for some reason.
This is parroted so much it’s satire and has no meaning as a criticism of tlj. The only thing parroted more is the prequel defense “’It’s like poetry – it rhymes’, daddy George told me, so it’s only valid in 6 movies and not the other things that are cyclical in that universe!”
And then when Holdo’s actual plan was revealed it was the biggest WTF?? moment in any of the movies, for sure.
The biggest WTF moment for me was Rose crashing into Finn in order to save his life as if the crash wouldn’t have killed them. And then they somehow run miles across the battlefield back to the base without dying.
Yeah that was pretty dumb too.
Nah it was great
The challenging things really don’t make any sense. Rian is the ultimate “I would rather prove I’m clever than tell a coherent story” writer. (See all his other work). It works for people who like clever things more than they like coherent stories.
While that may be true, implying that anything about J.J. Abrams’ version of Star Wars is “coherent” is a stretch that challenges even the most elastic philosophy.
The Force Awakens may have been somewhat boring (being highly derivative of A New Hope) but it was perfectly coherent. Rise of Skywalker was incoherent but that’s because it was trying to write its way out of how The Last Jedi just killed one plot thread after another.
It didn’t kill any threads but the Luke one, and even that was shown to have potential in RoS. JJ just dropped the ball on everything he was left with.
Rise of Skywalker was incoherent because it was not only trying to erase The Last Jedi, but also do what Lost so memorably had to do – figure out an ending to the entirely unplanned puzzle box that J.J. Abrams wrote himself into with the first film.And sure, if you pick nits, the plot of TFA is coherent, but it also sucks a metric ton of ass. How else to explain the questionable choices of the First Order and Resistance; Han Solo leaving the one thing he ever truly cared about to molder in a junkyard that’s coincidentally right where the heroine needs it; absolutely everything about Starkiller Base; 90% of the script’s dialogue; the endlessly stupid visual indulgences that are the hallmark of any Abrams film (oh look! Lens flare! An upside-down camera perspective! Etc.); and on and on and on?The sequel trilogy is worse than the prequel trilogy – something I never, ever thought would be possible – but TLJ at least tried to break some new ground in a fictional universe that deserves far better than to retread every single character and plot point ad nauseum.
If coherent stories are your thing, the Star Wars franchise is going to be nothing but heartbreak.
I couldn’t have put it better.
Thats weird since most of his films are pretty damn great
Ahem, Christopher Nolan exists.
I don’t understand the argument that he did new and exciting stuff. I do understand not wanting predictable storytelling, and I definitely agree that he flipped over the table. I just don’t understand how anyone thinks that he actually did anything with it after flipping it over. He didn’t set anything up, he didn’t shine a light on anything new or interesting. He just flipped the table, that’s it.
This is the correct takeaway.
If 9 had stuck the landing and followed through on everything he set up in 8, we would be having very different conversations about the movie now. The fact that they completely tailored 9 to appease all the toxic fanbois on the Internet and negate everything about 8 just ruined everything about the trilogy. (that and sidelining Finn to appease Chinese racism)
Let’s not pretend that’s entirely China. China fucking loves the Fast & The Furious Franchise, and they don’t cut Tej out of the marketing. Boyega was done dirty for American racists too.
The Venn diagram of toxic fanbois and white racists is nearly a circle.
Finn’s tlj arc is a callback to a Clone Wars episode. I think if JJ didn’t throw it out the trash we would have seen Finn and Rose taking down the underworld. Thematically Lucas probably regrets not having Jabba funding the Empire the whole time.
And in the end RoSN wasn’t even liked by the toxic fanboys. No one liked it. It’s honestly almost been memory holed by so many people.
TROS was terrible, and the hatred is justified, but that was also the last movie I saw in a theater before the pandemic. That’s probably true for a lot of people (the only movies that did any business between then and March 2020 were Bad Boys for Life and The Invisible Man) and I think it’s part of the reason it was memory holed as part of the Before Times. Without that stupid virus, maybe our culture could have fully reckoned with just how awful and insulting TROS really was.I liked TLJ when it came out. But knowing that nothing really *matters* in the end, due to what happens in the follow up, it kind of needs to be memory holed too.
You forgot Sonic the Hedgehog. Which was the last movie I saw in theaters before life shutdown
Counterpoint: TLJ works as a fine conclusion to the Sequel Duology and as the last movie in the Skywalker Saga.
I find it funny how people botch about TROS not following up on TLJ as an insult to Rian, but are perfectly OK with TLJ not following up on anything from TFA.
I honestly don’t remember, what did TLJ not follow up on from TFA?
That’s easy. TLJ followed up on everything. It’s not his fault JJ and co never said ‘oh Finn has Force powers”.Finn ko? Poe cocky? Rebels blew up a base? Luke was missing and a hermit? Rey’s unknown parents? Kylo is conflicted? All of these literally followed up on if you paid attention.
It answered the mystery of Rey’s origin by saying she didn’t come from any special bloodline. She would have to stand on her own, not beholden to anyone else’s legacy. It set up more of Finn’s growth from scared deserter to actually caring about the rebellion and anyone other than Rey.It set up Poe to eventually become a general after learning what real leadership and responsibility means. It explored the power of myth when Luke goes from saying “what do you expect me to do? Face down the entire First Order with a Lazer sword?’ to doing exactly that and living up to the legend he tried to run from. And it set up Kylo Ren to be the new Emporer. Finally making his choice and going full dark side. (Which the sequel ruined by making him a simpering, insecure fan boy bowing to Sidious without a fight.)
People love to use that bullshit “whataboutism” to attack TLJ, but there’s literally fuck all about TFA that was “not followed up” in “Last Jedi.” Except for utterly meaningless side business like “Who are the knights of ren?” which was never anything of even remote significance.Please, though, do tell me specifically what from TFA TLJ “didn’t follow up on.” I’d love to be proven wrong.
What did he set up? All he did was tear down what came before, with nothing to put in its place. There was no possible version of The Rise of Skywalker that could have followed up successfully on The Last Jedi, because there was nothing left at the end.
9 built on things 8 established. It followed through.“Chinese racism” Lol. I like you give it a special name. Unlike American or European racism, CHINESE RACISM is uniquely scary! Gotta love the casual sinophobia from the anti-China scaremongers.
I liked Last Jedi
Hey, me too!
I don’t dislike a single Star Wars movie at all, just variable levels of really like to awesome, Last Jedi is on the awesome scale. Well okay those Ewoks movies are a little lame but the 2nd one with Wiford Brimley kicks it up a notch. It’s the right thing to do.
Still better then the nonsensical bookends that caved to pressure from rabid disgusting “fans”
Johnson definitely made a bold swing and I agree with him that he was trying to build up Luke instead of tearing him down. But our image of Luke as a purely heroic figure from the original trilogy was hard to stomach when Jedi showed him to have flaws, and obviously some did not take too kindly to that.
I mean he had flaws in the original trilogy, he started out as a whiny, impulsive kid who was going to Tosche Station to get some power converters, guy! And then didn’t listen to Obi-Wan and Yoda and zoomed off to Bespin and got his hand chopped off for his pains. The original trilogy reiterated over and over that Luke was only one bad decision away from going down a dark road; I don’t see what’s so unconvincing about the idea that he lost his way later in life.
I think we should take any Star Wars news with a grain of salt when the source is a magazine run by the Empire.
Now that the dust has settled, the final rankings of the so-called “Skywalker Saga” are:TESBSWRotJTPMRotSAotC(Tie)TFA/TLJ.TRoSThat’s right, Attack of the Clones is better than every film in JJ’s abomination trilogy.
No way is shitastic Phantom Menace at number 4. The “are you an angel?” scene alone is worse than anything in any of the sequels.
That’s because it’s a good movie. People who complain that it “ruined” Luke Skywalker clearly want a character with no flaws whatsoever. Force Awakens already established that Luke disappeared and didn’t want to be found so making him someone who was disillusioned was hardly a shock, and he has a fantastic arc as a result. That’s more than we can say of the decision JJ made to have Han Solo immediately abandon his wife. Yes, the movie suffers from side quests that go nowhere, but so did most Star Wars movies if we’re being honest. I personally think that not putting Holdo in would have been better for Poe’s arc and given him more to do, but beyond that a lot of the “problems” are the problems of doing a trilogy where people have too much plot armor because of stuff that is going to happen.
Should The Force Awakens have explained in flashback why Han left Leia?
I do feel like I needed to see Leia raising her lightsaber over Han’s head as he slept.
I do feel like I needed to see Leia raising her lightsaber over Han’s head as he slept.The other head.
Snore-grunt. Mm Leia… so warm.
I mean…it would have been nice.
That has no bearing on the story 🤣
Yes.
Luke was one of the better parts of the movie: His Jedi academy always fails and he always gets people hurt because he wasn’t properly trained…plus, as Clone Wars showed us, the prequel era Jedi were really bad at their jobs, so Luke was starting with a handicap anyhow. Holdo was only interesting if Johnson was actually making a point about very bad leaders. I happen to think that all of the leaders in the movie being bad at their jobs was a deliberate choice, but it’s possible that I’m wrong.
“Holdo was only interesting if Johnson was actually making a point about very bad leaders.” A really well made movie would have been clear on that point.
Eh, there’s something to be said for subtlety in media. I like stories that make me think about the point more than stories that make it super obvious.Though, really, considering Johnson hasn’t really talked about the leadership thing makes me think it was an accidental thing instead of purposefully.
Yeah, it’s a shame that Johnson didn’t have the characters turn directly to the camera and explain all the themes to you.
I think Holdo would have made more sense if she had some sort of military background and shown to have a keen dependence on adhering to the chain of command. But she was just some politician, why not keep everyone in the loop especially since everyone assumed they were all just going to die without a plan
It was a bad example of telling rather than showing: People talk about how awesome she is but everything she does in the movie is actually dumb.
Holdo is actually fine at her job–why would she tell a soldier who recently disobeyed orders anything–and the fact that people miss this is one of the biggest reasons why TLJ is dumb.
Right, that does make sense, even though her plan is dumb it’s not like she would know her plan is dumb.Sure, telling Poe might not have been a good idea in her mind, that’s fine. Thing is that she doesn’t tell anyone else about her dumb plan or get any other advice about her dumb plan. Which, and this can’t be stressed enough, relies on nobody from the First Order looking out a window.
That’s not even getting into the fact that the orders Poe disobeyed were bad ones that, had he obeyed them, would have gotten all the bombers destroyed without taking out the Dreadnought. His action in the beginning of the movie was the single best military action in the entire trilogy.
“Holdo is actually fine at her job …”Is she, though? All that seems to be happening to those not in on the plan such that it was is that they’re running in a straight line until run down and gunned down. At the end, Poe’s just asking if there is a plan at all, he’s not even asking for specifics. The fact that he’s able to get enough people on board to overthrow the leadership shows that they’ve really done a bad job in communicating that there’s anything in mind apart from being mown down and killed.Also, the plan doesn’t have a Plan B as shown by when the bad guys work out what’s up, their transports are basically toast. In the end, you could probably fit what’s left of the resistance into a small bus and they were lucky to have that much left.
The first time I saw TLJ the whole “I have them on a string!” thing led me to anticipate that somebody among our heroes was a mole, and Holdo was such a glaringly obvious suspect that I spent much of the rest of the movie looking around wondering who it was going to be. It turned out there was no mole, “I have them on a string” was just paying off a barely-noticed line in Rogue One, and Holdo’s deal was being half of a “this could’ve been avoided if these two people would just talk to each other” communication breakdown.
Even though he’s being as sarcastic as here, I actually thought the suggestion here of Rose Tico being a mole was unironically genius. Option B would have been Captain Phasma being the double agent. A potentially much better way to show how war can be morally grey (Phasma having to do some very bad things to maintain her cover) than flat out telling us in reference to weapons dealers.
The completely underrated tragedy of this trilogy that I at least thought Rian Johnson got is that NOTHING Luke, Leia or Han did ultimately mattered. The New Republic rose, only to fall. Leia and Han were united in love, only for Han to bail after their son went dark. Luke tried to rebuild the Jedi only to have that destroyed by the darkness *in his own family.* The only way around that is to not have the sequels, but that was all setup by Force Awakens. Rian Johnson just ran with it.
Yep, once you take into account both the prequels and the sequels, the overriding theme of Star Wars is failure. The failure of qui gon, Ben, Yoda, Anakin, the Jedi as a whole, all the heroes of the original trilogy, the old and new republic, and the bad guys too.
“the prequel era Jedi were really bad at their jobs”“Holdo was only interesting if Johnson was actually making a point about very bad leaders.”I don’t think you got any of these movies.
No, I definitely do. Jedi are about peace and life but don’t even question where the clone army came from or if it’s a good idea to send them all to their deaths. They don’t notice Palp or Pong Krell in their midst. Hell they keep sending Krell out because, even though they might not like his methods, he gets results. One single Sith runs rings around all of them and snatches the government right out from under their noses.
Holdo was an amazingly bad leader with a plan that hinged on nobody from the New Order actually paying attention.
Holdo was there to break Poe down. The plot makes it pretty clear that Poe is too cocky and cost hundreds of lives.
I can’t help but feel the events of Luke Skywalker and what happened with him, Ben and his Jedi school were not only worth a film of their own but that the narrative of The Last Jedi really could have been helped if we’d seen more than the Cliff Notes version of those past events because those few flashbacks had a lot to unpack there.
Absolutely agreed, but I don’t know that that can be laid at Rian Johnson’s feet because “Luke screwed up with Ben in some way” was likely part of whatever brief he was given since the seeds were planted before Last Jedi.
True, but Obi-Wan screwed up even worse with Anakin, but didn’t get all disillusioned with his life’s work. He did do the whole “be a hermit” thing too but that was for a reason — he was protecting Luke.
Did you watch the Obi-Wan series? Cos that sure suggests he went through several years of being pretty disillusioned to the point that he couldn’t even connect with the Force.There’s also the fact that Luke was never fully trained.
Obi-Wan and Luke are two entirely different people. You expect them to act exactly the same?
I’m sure JJ Abrahams also stands by his Star Wars movies.
I’m sure he does stand by his movies and that’s totally fair. Force Awakens is good. Rise of Skywalker doesn’t make sense, but that’s because they choose to over course correct. Much like the original trilogy, I don’t believe for a second there was a roadmap of the three movies or the big plot points. I personally think Rian Johnson did a good job of taking Force Awakens and playing yes, and with it. Rise of Skywalker suffered from trying to undo that unnecessarily. I do suspect that some of the choices in Rise of Skywalker – though not the worst ones – were likely created by Carrie Fisher’s death given what was said about Leia’s alleged central role.
I’m pretty sure he doesn’t with RoS. I kinda remember his press before the movie came out, he was basically like, “We didn’t know what to do, so just said fuck it, let’s go tits out, and people will either hate it or love it.”The problem with JJ’s storytelling is that it’s never about anything other than its own plot. At least Rian tried to make TLJ about something. Myth is ultimately about the fundamental human condition. Take the greatest of them all, The Iliad. If JJ adapted it, it would basically just turn into an Avengers movie with quips.
“People who complain that it “ruined” Luke Skywalker clearly want a character with no flaws whatsoever.”Clearly that has never been the issue. Compared to previous written accounts of Luke, there was lots of potential to make him an actual character, not some sort of clumsy attempt at “subverting expectations.” But for me the issue is it looks great but there isn’t a single particular scene I enjoyed, the plot isn’t interesting and it’s as cringe inducing as the other two, if not more.
To me it wasn’t that Luke shouldn’t be flawed; I was fully expecting him to have turned his back on the Jedi in some fashion, else why would he be in hiding (given that the Jedi no longer needed to fear persecution as under the Empire)? The problem was in the execution. TFA ends with Rey discovering Luke and handing out the lightsaber to him. TLJ begins with him taking it what was offered and casually tossing it away like garbage. It’s a metaphor for how Johnson intended to treat the franchise, and there is no universe where fans were going to embrace that.
Or Luke is horrified by abilities that not only brought him to the brink of harming his nephew, but also the Force that seemingly is in an endless pattern of corrupting those nearest and dearest to him all while grappling with the reality that nothing he and his friends did had any real impact on the world as the Empire reasserts itself under a new name and apparently Palpatine has been alive ALL ALONG.The lightsaber that he clearly *already threw away* given it wasn’t with him and Rey found it. So yeah, disillusioned guy throws his sword away and has to find his way back to being the hero we knew him to be while his own mentor appears and outright states that none of the trappings matter, it’s what’s inside of you that counts? Sounds like a pretty standard arc and no different than Han ditching Leia.
You missed my point. The problem wasn’t that he rejected the lightsaber, or his arc in general. I have no problem with his story arc at all, honestly. It was actually one of the things I liked about the movie. It’s the way they had him do it, just casually taking the setup from the previous movie and immediately throwing it away like garbage. It’s just one example of the contempt that Johnson clearly felt for the franchise and its fans. It bled through in other ways as well (Rey’s parents were no one, Snoke chopped in half like nothing).
But what is contemptuous about that? Luke is established in Force Awakens to having “failed” in some way. It’s established that everything that they fought for was ultimately for nothing. His family is torn apart again. And he had already ditched the light saber.Why wouldn’t he throw it away? And again, throwing it away only to reclaim it metaphorically by the end is sort of the point, isn’t it?And additionally, Rey’s parents being no one. What the hell is wrong with that? Why should she be directly connected to the Skywalkers?
Why not?Because it’s an insult to the fans who watched the previous movies. “Here are all these plot ploints you are waiting for resolution. Jokes on you scrub, none of it matters.” It’s just bad storytelling.
I’ve been a Star Wars fan since 1979 and I didn’t feel insulted. I felt like someone was taking this big beautiful thing and drilling into it, showing us themes that had been in there since ANH and giving us the clearest view of Luke as an adult we’ve had. I love it, and it’s probably my favourite Star Wars film after ESB.
Yes, thank you.
All of the plot points were resolved, though.Who were Rey’s parents? No one. They were poor people in a crap galaxy who ditched their kid and her waiting for them to come back was all for nothing. Why did Luke disappear? Because he failed Ben and had a moment of weakness. Not liking the answers and the answer being it doesn’t matter isn’t the same.
Luke is established in Force Awakens to having “failed” in some way. It’s established that everything that they fought for was ultimately for nothing. His family is torn apart again. And he had already ditched the light saber.Why wouldn’t he throw it away? And again, throwing it away only to reclaim it metaphorically by the end is sort of the point, isn’t it?Again, I’m not complaining about him rejecting the lightsaber, or any part of his story arc. It’s entirely in the execution. The way that the first thing he does is utterly dismiss the setup from the previous movie set the tone for TLJ – namely, whatever happened before was not going to pay off or be built upon, because fuck all of you, Rian Johnson wanted to make a movie for himself, not for you. I would have been fine if he’d said “No”, or examined the lightsaber and handed it back to Rey. And additionally, Rey’s parents being no one. What the hell is wrong with that? Why should she be directly connected to the Skywalkers?She doesn’t need to be directly connected to the Skywalkers. I was hoping she wasn’t. But throughout the previous movie, the identity of Rey’s parents was set up as a mystery that would be paid off in future installments. It didn’t need to be Skywalkers; it could have just been some people with an interesting story. Instead, that entire setup is just discarded, because again, fuck all of you, Rian Johnson wanted to make a movie for himself, not for you.There are many clever ways that the movie could have subverted fan expectations and taken the film in an interesting direction. That’s not what this was. The contempt for the previous film’s setups, and by extension the franchise and its fans, was palpable.
We’re going to have to agree to disagree. Throwing the lightsaber away vs. saying no is minimally different and projecting tone on to the end of TFA to show anything in terms of what Luke was feeling other than displeasure at having been found is a reach.And again, other than Rey remembering her parents as having ditched her, it was hardly set up that *they* were that important. They’re important to Rey, but I think suggesting that the *one* flash of them proved they were intrinsically important is a stretch.
Rey’s parents being nobody (just like the boy with the broom) was easily one of the best parts of the movie. It works very well on a thematic level with some of the other deconstructions in the movie. Rey is so obsessed with the question of her parents that it’s clouding her ability to move forward with her life, and to grow with the force. She’s asking the wrong questions just like the Jedi were looking at the wrong things in the force in regards to thier conflict with the dark side.
It also creates a nice counterpoint to Kylo Ren who is so fixated at being like Vader. They are so much alike.
The problem is that the story of how Luke became disillusioned is too big to be told in a few flashbacks. The problems with the sequel trilogy go all the way to the decision to make them focused on new characters, yet have their story stay connected to the old characters. The story needs to focus primarily on the new characters but the audience cares more about the old characters. In the end neither are served well by trying to split the difference. The old characters feel like they have been ignored and the new characters don’t get enough chance to develop out of the shadows of the old ones.
Yeah, it’s that scene (and the scene where Snoke gets unceremoniously killed) just have the “Poochie died on the way to his home planet” vibes. Like that it is kind of funny, yes, but at the same time shows contempt for both the characters and the audience.
That’s such a base and shallow take on that scene.
It’s the only reasonable take on it. If you have another, I don’t know what you were watching.
Not to mention Luke had basically transcended the Jedi’s take on the Force and aligned himself in a way that felt more organic to him. It’s not that Luke couldn’t have faults – he has since early on – but that the Jedi couldn’t. Luke ultimately becomes one with the Force in a way even more directly than Obi Wan and Yoda did. That whole arc in TLJ opened the door for something entirely fresh in the final film (which would definitely not been called Rise of Skywalker) by taking conflicted characters unbeholden to the light side / dark side dichotomy, Jedis, or anything else. Rey and Kylo plotting a separate way would have been the perfect conclusion to the whole 9-film saga.
Absolutely! And the idea that more people with a connection to the force will continue to be born was also a great touch. My cynical little heart grew two sizes when the kid grabbed the broom! Now, I do cut JJ a little slack that *some* choices in Rise might have been predicated on Carrie Fisher dying in so much as I’m very sure Ben/Kylo would have had more to do with Leia if she could have been in the movie. But that doesn’t justify anything related to Palpatine.
Yeah, I left that part out. You can’t tell me that Han doesn’t use the Force in his own way despite not being explicitly trained – no one is that lucky. If the Force binds all living creatures together then it follows that everyone has some abilities with it, just like people have varying degrees of intelligence or natural athletic ability. Every now and then the stars align and a couple of seemingly average people have a child who is off the charts in some way or another. The idea that the Force works the same way makes so much more sense than it needing to be completely hereditary, especially given the massive amounts of intelligent life across the SW universe.
Luke’s ending is actually awesome and a very intriguing new way to think about the force. He’s the only one that actually managed to bring balance to the force. I think the fact that the other Jedi couldn’t see past the whole Light/Dark dichotomy is part of why they failed so hard in the prequels; if they were truly looking for balance instead of focused on the light fighting the dark maybe their ability to sense through the force wouldn’t have become so clouded that they didn’t notice the sith lord right in front of them.
Agree. While I wasn’t a huge fan of “Luke the coward who runs away” in TFA, at least Johnson did his darn best to justify that decision and give him a lovely arc.Frankly, Favreau did so much more damage to Luke’s character in “Book of Boba Fett” by having him spout the same shitty, utterly discredited Jedi philosophy of “no attachments,” even though Luke himself refuted that stupid rule since it was only by his attachment and compassion for Vader that Anakin was redeemed.Talk about completely missing the point, Favs! UUUUGH.
I will say the Favreau choice at least made me thin like “Oh, this is how Luke got from point A to point B. He didn’t learn his lessons so they repeated their mistakes.”
yeah, but to me that’s just insanely dumb. Luke SHOULD have known better, since he literally saved Vader and by extension himself and the entire galaxy BECAUSE of his attachment.He shouldn’t have from ROTJ to, “Hmm, I’ve been reading up on the Jedi Order now and I realize that I should totally copy the ways of that calcified, overly dogmatic group that got themselves all wiped out even though I’ve already proven their theories incorrect.”
I can totally get behind that. I’m just amused by how much all sequel stuff is built around “Well, that was all for nothing…”
Heh. Fair enough.
It’s a great movie compared to Awakens, which is a terrible movie. It’s not a good movie compared to movies.
It was one of the worst things done to a property in recent memory. He swung big by changing characters established personalities and behaviors. IE what if the next Indiana Jones he SELLS artifacts because he has become jaded over time, the next Bond He has left the service to be a for hire merc and given up saving the world. The next Fast and Furious Dom HATES family and lives as a recluse in the desert lol!
Sure it subverts expectation’s but it’s FUNDAMENTAL restructure of a set foundation……in the 8th of 9 movies. It’s the 8TH MOVIE in a SERIES…..not a standalone story. It is not the writer of the 8th part’s job to REINVENT the series and try to make it his own and fundamentally change established characters. There will be those that back Rian for this and quite frankly……you are wrong lol. If this was his own Star Wars movie….sure…swing big but as the continuation of a 7 movie series it is a TRAVESTY of writing and setting up the finale and frankly he should have been fired instead of the guys that did Solo.
lmao all these film pitches slap
Right?? Dude is like “what if characters changed and grew in different ways?”
OP actually thinks Indiana Jones was remotely good at being an archaeologist.
Daniel Craig only had one movie where he’s an active 00-agent through the entire thing, and it was Quantum of Solace.
Dom going against the family was literally the plot of Fast 8…
Go outside, man
The funny thing is that in every one of your examples, the franchise in question has released an installment that does, in fact, change the primary characters’ motivations and try to undermine the franchise status quo. Bond *repeatedly* goes rogue and quits Her Majesty’s Secret Service in disgust, like to the point where this is literally the most common plot for a Bond movie. Indiana Jones almost never successfully returns an artifact to a museum, and the fourth movie has him dealing with alien skulls or something. Dom betrays his family in Fate of the Furious.
This reads like a guy who saw tlj one time and retreads geeks and gamers talking points, never realizing Jeremy loved TLJ until he saw profiting off fan hate, and then just came to believe them and never paid attention to the film again
I absolutely despised Rian Johnson’s film and hated it more than any of the other 20 to 30 films I saw at the movies that year.That’s right, I absolutely loathed Knives Out.Expectations subverted?
I find he is more concerned with outsmarting the viewer than telling an interesting or coherent story and Knives Out is prime example.Unfortunately, this is a pretty popular mystery author trait, so it works for some fans of the genre (though most people who liked the movie don’t watch other mysteries, as mystery is not really a big genre in film anymore).
And like with Only Murders in the Building shows, the idea that the audience is supposed to be able to actually rationally solve the mystery given the evidence presented rather than just have a twist ending seems have been lost these days.
I love it. I don’t think it’s a mystery. It’s not structured like one. It’s a character comedy.
Both are fantastic films but go on
I’ve heard the reasons Rian Johnson didn’t direct Star Wars IX apparently included not enough time to do so.Well that was one dropped ball. Let there not be another and move heaven and earth to get him to direct Scream 8.
Last Jedi sucked and Rian Johnson is a fat faced idiot.
Hey good for him! There were plot holes big enough to drive a Star Destroyer through and some unexpected messaging about leaders not being great just because someone says they are, but at least it wasn’t nearly as bad as RoS!
some unexpected messaging about leaders not being great just because someone says they are
That doesn’t feel like a radical argument for Star Wars.
For the ‘Imperial’ side, sure, but saying that the ‘Rebel’ leaders aren’t very good is a new one.
I thought the messaging was that you’re supposed to blindly trust leadership because you never know when they might have a secret inscrutable plan. They seem to rub Poe’s nose into it don’t they?
That just stresses how wrong those orders are. Leia committed to sending one fighter as a distraction for a bombing run. The mission was a major success, a handful of bombers and one fighter took out a huge capital ship. The bombers weren’t well defended and were getting ripped apart by TIEs anyhow, if Poe had followed orders the bombers would have been lost for no gain at all.
The movie sends mixed messages at best, but really all the leaders were bad: Holdo’s plan was bad and her talent was talked about but not shown, Leia’s emotions causing her to issue orders that would have gotten people killed for no gain was bad, Snoke’s hubris was bad, Hux was just an idiot…in the whole film, the only leader who realizes he’s not fit for it is Luke and he’s the one who pretty much saves the day.
Nah Leia’s plan was going to work otherwise Poe wouldn’t get demoted
“if Poe had followed orders the bombers would have been lost for no gain at all.”If Poe had followed orders the bombers and fighters would have disengaged before the remainder were lost.
No one would tell Poe any plans, in this galaxy or any other.
OPSEC is an actual thing, and Poe did not have it.
I feel like the prequel series is all about how the Jedi Council are impotent morons who actually caused most of the trouble of the OT by having their heads firmly up their asses when Palpatine was cackling to himself and rubbing his hands together in front of their allegedly psychic asses.
Honestly the Clone Wars series only reinforces that idea.
Two words: Pong Krellhttps://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Pong_Krell
Aw contraire. Rise of Skywalker had some fun scenes of Rey, Finn, and Poe interacting with one another. That alone makes Rise better than TLJ.
No, it really doesnt. TLJ sucked, ROS was worse, which i didnt even think was possible, but they did it.
Theres plot holes that big all in the first six movies 🤷♂️
TLJ was definitely the most interesting SW movie of the Disney era. But it’s a lot more interesting as a way to examine what kinds of things a big-budget franchise entry is expected to do, or capable of doing, than it is as a Star Wars movie, or even a fully coherent narrative. As much as I appreciate a lot of what Johnson did, a lot of the narrative structure of TLJ is an incoherent, unsatisfying mess.
Nah
The amount of writing about this thing isn’t justified by the fairly bland movie. Good lord, wouldn’t it be neat to ACTUALLY get subversive, clever SF/fantasy.
Name some.
Oh look, sometimes war and the people who sell weapons are morally grey. They even sell weapons to both sides, those bounders! Who would have thought it?There was a very good film about this … it was called Lord of War and came out in 2005.
Its almost like Rian was referencing the prequels in the warlord commentary but fanboys didn’t read the memo
Wow, just like Tony Stark!
Battlefield Earth, DUH.Oh wait, that’s supposed to be NON-fiction.Yikes.
We got Farscape–what more do you want?
The BSG reboot as well
More Farscape for starters?
This +1000Of all the shows that needs a reboot or spinoff for its universe, FARSCAPE.
More Farscape for starters?
That fifth season we were promised. And the revival. And the movie. Hell, even the webseries.So. Just more Farscape.
You did get that in TLJ and hated it lol
Nope. Not watching a video essay on this (or practically any) subject. Not now, not ever.
Whoa! A Youtuber has negative opinions about The Last Jedi?? Stop the fucking presses!!
End of Summer. Not a lot going on in the entertainment mediascape right now. What are we gonna do to spark some traffic today? Just say something, anything, about The Last Jedi.Well played, media overlords, well played.
Batten down the hatches—we’re starting to feel another round of The Last Jedi discourse coming on. We don’t have to! It’s okay!
Time is a flat fucking circle.
Look at that comments count while you relive the greatest hits from the last time we did this. I think we all know why we’re back here again today.https://www.avclub.com/the-last-jedi-let-the-past-die-and-pissed-off-a-galaxy-1847403412
If reliving the greatest hits means bringing back Tom Breihan I’m down for that.
At the very least I’ll give TLJ credit for being one of if not the best-looking of all Star Wars films. But as a story continuation it still sucks out loud, it’s almost like Exorcist II with how much disdain the creator apparently had for the preceding film.There’s no point in trying to apologize for it at this point, the whole trilogy was hot garbage and being the “best” of that is a dubious honor. It still just baffles me how hard Disney/JJ botched the sequel trilogy, a modicum of planning would have gone a long way. And they still haven’t really figured things out yet. Maybe Andor will finally get SW on track, but I haven’t caught the hype for it yet.
There’s really no sitting on the fence with this film, is there?
I liked parts, didn’t like other parts.I enjoyed the Luke and Rey parts. Didn’t even mind the sidequest with Rose & Finn, except the character of DJ, who comes out of nowhere, and then disappears into nowhere. The weakest part for me was the low speed chase. The Poe and Holdo stuff didn’t really land for me. I remember once I realized this was where all these characters were gonna stay for most of the movie, I thought “oh, okay…”Traditionally, I’m just used to the main characters in a Star Wars film bouncing from place to place throughout the film. Tatooine to Death Star to Rebel Base and back to Death Star. Hoth to Dagobah/Asteroid Field to Bespin. Tatooine (again) to Dagobah to Endor to Death Star.Even TFA had Jakku and Takodana and Starkiller Base…Part of the fun of Star Wars is going from place to place and never staying put for too long.I think that’s my least favorite part of TLJ. Some characters go on different side quests, but the driving force of the movie is just a bunch of people stuck in one place.
Yep. The Poe and Holdo stuff killed the momentum the rest of the film managed. I liked the rest of the film. I wish Carrie Fisher had been given Holdo’s screen time instead. That would have been a more interesting movie, and would have propped up the lagging part.
The thing is, there are PARTS of the low speed chase that are, to me, some of the strongest parts of the movie. I know people got mad at Leia using the Force to fly back to the ship but I thought it was quite powerful. And Holdo smashing her ship through Snoke’s was breathtaking. I remember seeing that in the theater and just having a physical reaction to it. But overall, the bickering between Poe and Holdo, and the entire conceit of them slowly chugging along through space for the length of the movie, didn’t work for me.
It astounds me that they created Holdo when Leia was right there and capable of serving the same part! It would’ve been a wonderful mirror to the Luke-Rey story, with Leia having problems with her would-be successor. And it just would’ve been more time with Carrie Fisher after TFA terribly underused her!About the only thing that would need massive rewriting is the Holdo Maneuver, but then again I think it would’ve made so much narrative sense if it had been Poe who sacrificed himself in penance for his mutiny.
I appreciate what he was trying to do but I’m not too sure how well he succeeded. As its own thing it’s not bad but as the middle part of a trilogy it’s kind of a failure. Part of that is a result of Rise of Skywalker dropping the ball since I do think TLJ mostly set things up to go in an interesting direction, even if I’m not exactly a fan of how things got there.On the other hand TLJ completely jettisoned most of what TFA was setting up and didn’t seem to know what to do with a lot of the characters. Holdo was generally unlikable; Poe’s whole thing was just being mad at Holdo; Finn and Rose going to Canto Bight didn’t really lead to anything; etc…I do think they should have stuck with Rey not being connected to a legacy character or anyone significant, though. It was far more interesting than what we got or whatever else they had planed and made her a more interesting character.
“Part of that is a result of Rise of Skywalker dropping the ball since I do think TLJ”
Jesus, fall over yourself some more to find something to blame TLJ on.
If you’re blaming TLJ for ROS’s failings, then shouldn’t you be blaming TFA for TLJ’s failings?
my favorite part of the movie is how he wrote it with the tone of a conclusion to a trilogy when it was the second film, making the writers of the finale have to scramble and retcon a bunch of shit to make it work. real cohesive.
I might not have enjoyed the movie, but it’s good to see him standing by his work.
Standing by your work is one thing, trying to drag down other people’s work im defence of your own especially when that other work is The Empire Strikes Back is bang out of order, son.
Jesus go touch grass
I hate this expression more than his movie*. It seems like it’s trying to be clever when it really isn’t.*said movie being Knives Out.
Yeah that didn’t happen and that guy’s just a recluse in a mask
When did he drag Empire Strikes Back, exactly. Please be specific.
I believe there’s a handy video linked to which contains the answer to that question!
Who do you think has 18 minutes free to watch this detritus
The fundamental challenge for any new Star Wars project is that they’re not really competing with previous entries in the series, they’re competing with the nostalgic *feelings* that fans have about previous entries in the series and the whole universe they imagined playing make-believe with Star Wars toys as kids. Showing Luke Skywalker as a flawed adult was basically going back in time, grabbing those fans on Christmas Eve as children, and telling them there’s no Santa Claus.
Honestly, I never expected the sequels to come close to the original trilogy in quality; you can’t catch lightning in a bottle twice. I wanted an entertaining story, some fun new characters, and some time with some old friends, and by and large, I got that and was satisfied. Still beat the prequels all to hell.
Thanks to general Star Wars fatigue and the unmitigated disaster that was Rise of Skywalker, I’ve cooled significantly on the whole sequel trilogy. However, at least Last Jedi felt was trying to say something original instead of just smashing a bunch of Star Wars action figures together for two hours.
The Last Jedi is the only one that has any sort of interesting tail, which is the mark of a solid “film.” The other star wars in the previous trilogies all had something to discuss and TLJ is the only that lives up to that. Force Awakens was like someone gave JJ 100 million to make a fan remake of the original. Not really anything to talk about besides, ooh look they made it feel like a movie from 40 years ago. Rise of Skywalker was just garbage that noone talks about.TLJ, love it or hate it. You can dissect it. You can get into what it means to be a hero. or what the rashomon nature of the flashbacks, or the holdo manuever, or the spirit projection, thenature of war, etc.
As he should be
He should be proud of it; it’s an absolute masterpiece.
The entire sequel trilogy sucks, but for me TLJ sucked least of the three. Faint praise, indeed, but it tried to un-Abrams Star Wars and that is noble in and of itself.
The entire prequel trilogy is pretty bad next to 2 sequel films is wild tho
Perhaps that’s why Rian Johnson will never disavow his contribution to the Star Wars universe: “I’m even more proud of it five years on. When I was up at bat, I really swung at the ball,” he tells Empire magazine. My 3rd favorite Star Wars movie ever and I’ve seen them all in the theater (I don’t remember seeing a New hope as I was 4).I love old man Luke, as I’m 48 now and we all make mistakes and there is a point in your life you think you are lost and even gods like Luke and Superman go through that.I feel like Luke in TLJ is like Supes in Kingdom Come.
The Last Jedi did some cool things thematically, but it was still narratively and logically a bit of a mess. I’m just not sure a meditation on failure is a fit for the Skywalker Saga. And Luke’s arc still really doesn’t jell for me.
gel
If you’re going to try to correct someone, at least make sure you’re right.https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jell
Well, it’s past 6:30am in Australia and I’ve just been out of whack with my sleep cycle because I just got back from overseas.Now I need to go get my driver’s licence renewed before I forget and drive on an expired one but I imagine the rest of the Australian crowd here will be here to take over if they haven’t started doing so already.
Don’t let anyone who describes Luke in this movie as “flawed” near sleeping children.
None of these movies exist. The timeline of Star Wars ends with the last episode of the Book of Boba Fett. I have spoken.
Reminder that, according to The Rules, if you don’t consider The Last Jedi to be one of the greatest films ever made by humans ever and have any problem with it, no matter how small, you are a Nazi, racist, misogynist, alt-Right Trumper who just doesn’t like female characters with agency.
I feel like you’re not living up to your username.
It’s amazing how many idiots think the villain’s dialogue is the message of the story.
“The final images of the movie, to me, are not deconstructing the myth
of Luke Skywalker, they’re building it, and they’re him embracing it,”
Johnson continues. “They’re him absolutely defying the notion of, ‘Throw
away the past,’ and embracing what actually matters about his myth and
what’s going to inspire the next generation.
Sigh. I promised myself I wouldn’t talk about that film again but how many people defended The Last Jedi by saying it actually was about throwing away the past? This movie seems to have acted as a Rorschach test for many people.
I defended the Last Jedi but was smart enough to know that a self-serving speech by the villain meant at least partly to justify cold-blooded murder was not, in fact, the thesis of the movie itself.
Good! Fuck those nerds.
Well, this went about as well as expected with yet another Twitter thread devolving into an all-in brawl as per usual whenever TLJ is mentioned.
The solution is to ignore Twitter completely
Considering that Last Jedi was followed by the pure excrement of Rise of Skywalker, the utter mediocrity of The Mandalorian and the pure excrement of The Book of Boba Fett, Johnson definitely has more reasons than every to be proud of The Last Jedi.
Batten down the hatches—we’re starting to feel —> Batten down the hatches; we’re starting to feelJohnson seemingly moved on from The Last Jedi brouhaha—> Johnson seemingly moved on from the Last Jedi brouhaha backburner —> back burner
The like/not like this movie debate is exhausting. What the real take-away that could be discussed is how Kathleen Kennedy & Co have apparently promised future trilogies (kinda willy-nilly) to 4? 5? different filmmakers that were hot for a hot minute and then fizzled. D+ and The Mandalorian happened and focus shifted to streaming. It seems to me like Disney doesn’t want to risk another big-screen Star Wars perceived failure. Is Star Wars done with big-screen movies? It feels like they are.
So hack who made a terrible movie continues to believe his movie was good?Sure. Fine.
He set things up so well and then they really dropped the Death Star.
to paraphase TLJ on TLJ““Let the Last Jedi Die , Kill it if you have to”
The real problem is that Last Jedi is essentially trying to force the films to radically change tone, theme and direction at what is basically chapter eight of a nine chapter story. Like, sure, you want to make a Star Wars film that breaks the rules and deconstructs the existing myths and traditions of the narrative and Subverts Expectations, Man, more power to you, but you’re not doing so in a vacuum. Star Wars is still a known quantity at this point. It’s familiar, so people who are going to watch a new Star Wars film forty years on are doing so at least partly because they want that familiarity for better or worse. So if you want to knock over the chessboard and change the rules, you can do that, but you need to start doing that at second one, minute one, teaser trailer one; otherwise, don’t be surprised when people act like you’ve pulled the rug out of them when you suddenly spring it on them one film before the finale, because that’s exactly what you have done. . It all gets back to the bigger, more harmful issue that absolutely no one seems to have any kind of goal, idea or direction for what they wanted to say or do with the sequel trilogy, so everyone involved has pretty much just been winging it. Had The Last Jedi been the first movie, there would have probably been much less negativity towards what it was trying to do (though that said, it’s not the masterpiece it’s more ardent defenders insist it is either).
Now just what the heck is “Star Wars” anyway?
Cool. When is the next anniversary for that Ghostbusters with the broads?
When the backlash to your movie caused Disney to do a hard 180, throw out all your ideas, and make Rise of Skywalker which people hated even more I’d feel that you deserve a victory lap.
JFC this guy is delusional.
Know what Johnson did right? He concluded the Hero’s Journey.Beowulf didn’t kick back and die of old age in a mead hall. He was brought out of his surly retirement to face one more cataclysmic enemy, and die in the process of claiming victory, and in the process became a legend.That’s what Johnson did right. He respected the arc of the myth.