The strength of Big Little Lies season 2 lies in performances over plot
I was definitely among the camp of people against the idea of a second season of Big Little Lies. The first season was so wonderfully crafted around the murder mystery at its center, once that was all revealed, and resolved, and concluded with the five women watching their children on the beach, I thought it was a perfect ending to an exemplary production.
But then the show won eight Emmys and four Golden Globes, and speculation about the possibility of a Big Little Lies second season began to take hold. Without the mystery at its core, BLL season two seems to be focusing on performance over plot (based on a novella by BLL author Liane Moriarty), with the Monterey 5 all dealing with the fallout from that fateful night. Obviously Bonnie (Zoë Kravitz), who gave Perry (Alexander Skarsgård) that fatal push, is going to be the most affected, followed by celeste, who now inhabits an entirely different world than she did before. Bonnie’s anguish is only compounded by the fact that maybe the women made the wrong decision that night, as she complains to Madeline (Reese Witherspoon); if they (rightly) claimed self-defense, and then this whole issue wouldn’t even exist. Granted, it must have been difficult to think clearly that highly charged, traumatic night. But the sharing of the secret draws the women in even closer than they were before, especially with Renata (Laura Dern), who Madeline had such a feud with last season.
With five leads now instead of three, the series is frankly spread a little thin. We have Madeline’s problematic daughter refusing to go to college, Jane (Shailene Woodley) working at the Monterey Bay Aquarium, Celeste’s sons still aggressive like their father was, and Renata’s husband getting drunk in the basement, apparently unable to deal with his wife’s rising success. It’s a lot. It may be too much, as this first episode had a lot of place-setting to deal with. For the most part, it succeeds admirably, and Andrea Arnold’s direction seamlessly picks up where Jean-Marc Vallée left off: the jarring flashbacks, the dreamlike beach scenes. Best of all, though, for all of my skepticism, is the chance to see these characters, and performers together again. They’re all at the top of their game, so that seeing Renata awkwardly tear into her daughter’s new teacher is still a straight-up delight.
That said, some characters are having a more difficult shift into the second season than others. Nicole Kidman’s wordless portrayals of Celeste’s complicated grief process are breathtaking (not for nothing did she win all those awards last year). But I don’t remember Madeline being straight-up awful, as she is a few times in this episode: screaming (and punching) at her ex-husband over her daughter’s refusal to go to college (and offering a half-assed apology), screaming at that same daughter that she doesn’t care about homeless people. Maybe it’s the added stress of the secret that’s bringing out Madeline’s worst tendencies, like driving aggressively.
Adam Scott’s Ed was also a slippery character to get a handle on last season: Was he actually ogling his step-daughter? Or Bonnie after that sweaty yoga class? So that awkward run-in in the grocery store was just straight-up odd, doing little to help iron that character out; since Madeline is fantasizing about the man she had the affair with, are she and Ed headed for an extramarital-fueled split?
If you’re wondering what Meryl Streep could possibly bring to this potentially crowded table, let me assure you that her role as Mary Louise reminds us all why Meryl Streep is Meryl Streep. Mary Louise is perfectly politely menacing, so enamored of her dead son that she definitely has the capability to blow this secret wide open. The barbs she swaps with Madeline are downright delicious: She is also terrible at apologies (“I don’t mean it in a negative way… maybe I do”), offering gasp-worthy insults framed in this benevolent, cardigan-wearing grandma background. And yet, Mary Louise clearly contains mountains of unresolved rage, as indicated by her primary, guttural scream of grief; the best thing this episode does is set her up immediately as someone all of the five should be very, very scared of. I think the most fascinating thing about Mary Louise is if she knew the truth about Perry, would she still be as loyal? How far can a mother’s love be pushed to the limit?
The worst things in this episode? There are some inconsistencies from last season, which pointedly started on orientation day. Perry got mad at Celeste that the first day of school was just a dropoff event, so where did this big annual assembly come from? Madeline seems to have fallen into a real-estate career rather quickly, although you can get a license in a matter of months. And for all the talk of the kids, we barely saw them, except for Abigail—Chloe and Iggy got only a few moments onscreen, none for Skye and little Amabella. With so many adult characters, it will likely be difficult to fit everyone in. Especially if these episodes continue to hover around the 40-minute mark instead of the hour mark.
Worst of all, some of the dialogue is downright hurtful. A savvy young woman like Abigail would never diminish the trans population to people that just “mull over a sex change” in college. And Madeline’s “shove it” comment to Warren was too awkwardly acrobatic to make much of an impact.
Despite its flaws, this premiere still holds a lot of promise for the second season. While it seems unlikely that a young child would ask Jane “Why is it the prettier something is, the more dangerous?” at the aquarium, the show took that seemingly obvious nod a different way. Bonnie killed Perry, but it was handsome Perry, who we now clearly see in Jane’s flashbacks, who was the deadly one. Jane’s octopus picture shows that, like Celeste, she’s not completely over his damage either, probably impacted by the fact that he was married to her now-friend.
The beauty of Big Little Lies lies in the secrets and danger inherent in the most picturesque setting imaginable: the idyllic beach town of Monterey, and the gorgeous moms who inhabit it. Season two seems to be focusing on this one main (giant) secret so far, but knowing what we know about these women, it seems inevitable that further ones will emerge as well.
Stray observations
- Best mom outfit: There could never be anything more fabulous than Renata in that shiny magenta dress standing akimbo, lording it over her photo shoot and reveling in her well-deserved success.
- Nice to know that even rich people give the kids protein bar breakfast when they’re running late (mine are usually Trader Joe’s granola bars).
- I bet it absolutely smelled like weed over there.
- Celeste’s walk-in closet is bigger than my kitchen.
- Seems weird that Madeline’s ex-husband Nathan would call her “honey” in that meeting with the academic advisor?
- Welcome to Big Little Lies season two! Abut two years ago, I wrote at the end of season one, “As much as I loved it, I’m kind of glad it’s its own limited package, so we can just enjoy it for the seven-episode perfection that it was.” Don’t know if we’re headed for seven more episodes of perfection exactly, but it’s definitely bound to be engrossing, so I’m excited. And don’t dare take your eyes off of Mary Louise for a second (like you even could).
157 Comments
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mrrpmrrpmrrpmrrp-av says: oh, don’t mind me, I’m just going to apologize by telling you how strongly you remind me of somebody who was a vapid piece of crap under a bubbly facade.
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thundercatsarego-av says:
I loved that whole exchange because of how Mary Louise is such a dick and so mean, but also…she’s not wrong about Madeline. She zeroed in on all of Madeline’s worst qualities with surgical precision.
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ernestj22-av says:
I don’t think it’s that odd for a privileged white girl like Abigail to be woke one second, and then offensive the next. She is also trying to rile up her parents.Madeline was definitely awful last season. Didn’t she tell a man on the phone to go fuck himself? She also terrorized Renata, was mean to Bonnie, and told a yoga instructor that she doesn’t like to be touched. I’m very into Meryl’s performance. Mary Louise is definitely someone to look out for. Out of all of them, I’m the least interested in Jane at the moment. Curious where Bonnie and Celeste’s storylines will head.
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bobfunch1-on-kinja-av says:
Yeah, last season Madeline was made out to be a villain (not THE villain, of course) only to show her better sides around ep3. It would be interesting if by the end of this season (or S3!) if Celeste realizes she needs to get rid of all negative people in her life – her mother-in-law for sure, but sadly also Madeline.
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cariocalondoner-av says:
odd … white … woke one second … offensive the next … trying to rile up — The A.V. Club
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Babylegs-av says:
I don’t even care if the writing is shit (it’s not); I will tune into this show solely to watch Meryl and her icy performance. I’m LIVING for it.
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bastard-people-av says:
Her performance is like a combination of Miranda Priestly and the Mormon mother character she played in the HBO Angels in America. This episode made me so excited for the Kidman/Streep faceoffs—two of the best actors working in Hollywood today.
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theroo-av says:
The gesture with the cross necklaceHer female version of the Steve Bannon three shirtsMary Louise (her real name; I heard the writer wrote it with her in mind) makes Miranda Priestly look like a cream puff
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tuxedosponge-av says:
Watching Jane just rock right out to the Call Me By Your Name soundtrack was…weird.Nobody does that.
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assholisms-av says:
True, usually people just do like I did and listen to it while crying to sleep.
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petrichor-av says:
Honestly, I feel like that is definitely something Shailene Woodley does on the regular.
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busyasabree-av says:
“and told a yoga instructor that she doesn’t like to be touched.”Is this strange? At my studio while we’re in child’s pose the instructor always invites the yogis to raise a hand if they don’t want to be physically touched during their practice (and asks while our heads are down to protect their anonymity).
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rob1984-av says:
Madeline also pulled that stunt where she got half the kids to ditch Ammabella’s birthday party. That was pretty bad.
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michaeldnoon-av says:
I think we will see Mary Louise exhibit some level of dangerous psychopathy that we saw in her son, AND one grandson already. I hope so anyways, because the premise of the season is pretty stupid; i.e telling the police that he fell instead of correctly telling them it was self-defense.
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seanc234-av says:
That “previously on…” montage was arty to the point where it would have been no help at all to somebody who hadn’t watched the first season.You can already tell that Streep is walking away with that supporting actress Emmy next year.
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kumagorok-av says:
For the life of me, I can’t understand why the “previously on” still felt the need to keep Perry’s death a secret! Like, let’s not spoil that for new viewers until they’ve seen the first five minutes of the premiere?
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warrenhugs-av says:
“Previously on…” segments aren’t generally for new viewers; they’re to remind people who already watched what happened. I watched S1 for the first time recently, but for most it’s been about two years since it aired.
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anotherburnersorry-av says:
I’m also very skeptical about another season of this–the first was such a perfect self-contained story.This wasn’t bad. I like how they’re structuring the season, with Steep’s discovery mission strategy replacing the whodunnit of season 1. The mood is just right too–all the friendships seem just a bit off, after they would after the trauma of the first season. The scene with Jane and Celeste was particularly interesting–though they were obviously having a friendly conversation it seemed that Jane kept trying to get Celeste to hate her. It’s a potentially rich setup. That said I agree with Gwen that there might be too many plot threads–which to me suggests that the main story might be a little thin. (For one thing, I don’t think having the husbands carp at each other is going to result in anything interesting.) Madeline’s character does seem a bit off. Bonnie wasn’t my favorite character in the first season (and I feel like I’m the only person alive who isn’t impressed with Zoe Kravitz), so I hope she can do more than mope around this season. So, cautious optimism!
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Babylegs-av says:
I feel like I’m the only person alive who isn’t impressed with Zoe KravitzNah, me neither. I like watching her scenes because she’s so easy to look at, but her and Jeremy are pretty boring. I’m not looking forward to a whole season of “wah, Bonnie has a wall up.”
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kumagorok-av says:
I like her enough, though I admit it’s possible I might just be under her spell. I rank Shailene Woodley firmly at the bottom of the female leads, though I think she’s doing her best to keep up with her gigantic co-leads.I liked this recent appearance of Zoë Kravitz at Colbert’s. They talk about BLL S2 and Meryl Streep. Her timing of “Me, too” was on point.I like that she doesn’t need fancy sexy clothes (Those arm tattoos are pretty awful, though; they look like scribbles by some self-harming child.)I think her mother was even prettier than she is. But she’s probably going to be the better actress.
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Babylegs-av says:
Holy shit, I just realized how dumb I am: I thought she was Lisa Bonet the whole time. The reason I like watching her so much is because I think to myself “that’s the woman who’s married to my boyfriend Jason Momoa.”Anyway, agreed, I think both she and her mother are stunning. I just also think Bonnie’s going to be a bit of a bummer this season. 🙁 Shailene Woodley is a good enough actress but her scenes are a drag in comparison to the compelling stuff going on with her juggernaut costars.
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kumagorok-av says:
Well, she’s still Jason Momoa’s stepdaughter. I’m sure he loves her – but not in a creepy way. 🙂
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cariocalondoner-av says:
I’m sure he loves her – but not in a creepy way. :)Urgh. Last week I saw Pete Gardner (aka Darryl Whitefeather) perform “I love my daughter” live, and at one point when he said “but not in a creepy way” he made that obscene gesture of repeatedly sticking the forefinger of one hand into two circled fingers of the other (which made me and the people sitting near me groan!)- and unfortunately I can’t unsee or unremember that when reminded of the song!!
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rob1984-av says:
I think Shailene Woodley is fine. After seeing her in the Descendants she can act. I just think her character is supposed to be kind of withdrawn and quiet and that’s kind of a big contract to some of the other characters.
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wordbird-av says:
Yeah unfortunately Zoe Kravitz is just a little too acty for me, a little unnatural.
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kumagorok-av says:
Funnily enough, it’s exactly what Katharine Hepburn said of Meryl Streep. 🙂
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kumagorok-av says:
I don’t think having the husbands carp at each other is going to result in anything interesting.Man, every time Madeline’s ex-husband shows up, the show comes to a screeching halt. And now his storyline is “My second wife is withdrawn and depressed and I have no clue what to do about it because I have the capacity for empathy of an eggplant. Women, amirite?”
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clevergirl23-av says:
I think Bonnie is going to tell him the truth and I can see him completely blaming his ex wife for it and that could cause some interesting drama.
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thundercatsarego-av says:
I’m late to the party here, but I really dislike the way the TV show treats the character of Nathan. It has made him way too much of a caricature, so in the end both him and Madeline are basically outlandish cartoons doing ridiculous shit to each other. It doesn’t work. So I’m going to be that “book” person who says “But in the book…”But in the book…Nathan isn’t a totally unavailable aggro jerk. In fact, he’s kinda OK. Madeline basically hates him because he has grown up and become a decent father and husband. She resents that he couldn’t be that for her when Abigail was young, but can for Bonnie and Skye. It’s a much more interesting dynamic, and I think it would have been for the show, too, to have Nathan be steadier as Madeline gradually spins off the rails.
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danniellabee-av says:
I have also read the book and I agree Nathan is a much better character in it. There is still time, maybe he will grow up in the show?
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incubi421-av says:
“I think the most fascinating thing about Mary Louise is if she knew the truth about Perry, would she still be as loyal? How far can a mother’s love be pushed to the limit?”Wouldn’t change a damn thing. I know people like Mary Louise, their (adult) children can do no wrong, even when they do wrong.Meryl Streep brings this character to fucking life.
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cariocalondoner-av says:
She’d probably tell Nicole Kidman’s character “He was under a lot of stress travelling and working hard to provide luxuries for his family. I’m not saying it’s your fault my son beat you up, but ….” and then in so many words make it crystal clear she does think it was her fault!
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bcfred-av says:
I doubt she would acknowledge abuse. Maybe he’s tough on her, but he’s an alpha male who is demanding of everyone around him and that’s a good thing! Not to mention it sounds like he may have gotten some of his tendencies from her.
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theroo-av says:
he may have gotten some of his tendencies from her…. or from his dad. Maybe it’s just because Mary Louise is on the screen, but it’s like nobody talks about Perry possibly having gotten those tendencies from his dad, even though Max clearly got his from watching (and hearing) his dad.
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kca204-av says:
“ . . . You have to accept a brilliant, sensitive man can be driven to a passionate reaction. *pause* Have you ever looked into aloe for under the eyes? I hear that helps . . .” I was ambivalent about a season 2 of BLL, but watching Streep ride roughshod over every evil yet passive aggressive line? I. Am. In.
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Babylegs-av says:
Agreed. Her lionization of Perry probably enabled his abusive tendencies. She’s an old woman; her opinions have calcified; and now she’s a grieving mother. She also seems to be a deeply conniving and selfish woman so I seriously doubt she’d side with her dead son’s widow.I never knew women as sinister as Mary Louise but I did know mothers who were completely oblivious to their sons’ bad behavior. Appealing to your abusive husband’s mom of all people should be your last resort.
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incubi421-av says:
A couple things at play here, in mind: her calcified nature and tendencies make me wonder if she’s going to start in at the twins at some point, although she seems to be a force for good at the moment and seems to bring a true reprieve to things for Celeste. Another thing is she KNOWS she’s a grieving mother and understands the latitude allowed for such a state. Brings her in striking orbit of someone like Adora from Sharp Objects (perhaps minus the MBP) and I think I’ll have the comparison in mind the rest of the show at this point (boy, HBO really knows how to create mothers of consequence…)
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Babylegs-av says:
Oh, those twins… I really worry for them with Grammy Meryl putting worms in their ear. 🙁 I wonder how she’ll react when she meets Ziggy.
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clevergirl23-av says:
I wonder if the mom used to beat Perry. I got vibes from Mary Louise that she will be violent when pushed and her remarks to the twins were unsettling. And it might be the reason for Perry’s own abuse of his wife, like retribution for the mother who beat him. Not that it’s an excuse, but abuse can be cyclical…
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Babylegs-av says:
She doesn’t seem like a physically violent type to me (and for all her talents I don’t think Meryl could or would play that). I see more of an emotional and psychological abuser. If Perry saw abuse from anyone firsthand it would have been his father, but again, reading from Mary Louise in this last episode I get the sense that his father was absent and she raised Perry on her own.So I think the reason Perry became an abuser with a mother like her is because she probably slathered him with the kind of parenting that creates toxic masculinity: insisting that he stay tough, discouraging him from showing emotion (but indulging him when he felt victimized or wronged), telling him that he deserved things he probably hadn’t earned, making him feel like the strongest/best/smartest/most special boy in the world, teaching him how to gaslight others, etc.
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rob1984-av says:
See I was going the other way, that Perry’s father was abusive.
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theroo-av says:
Her “I have another grandchild” was … pretty chillingDid you hear her asking Celeste those questions? Like when Celeste told Mary Louise “I don’t like her; she’s short” about Madeleine’s saving one of the twins from drowning and “Really?” wasn’t enough for Mary Louise to retort. She had to follow it up with “And … where were you?”
And do you remember when she asked Celeste after the Ambien accident “Was that the first time?” She’s collecting her “evidence” for a custody fight for those twins, I’ll bet. -
Babylegs-av says:
Oh definitely. She’s also a gaslighter of the highest degree. It’s very clear that Perry learned a lot of his greatest hits from Mary Louise.
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mrrpmrrpmrrpmrrp-av says:
ohhh, I don’t think she’s a force for good even at the moment. this woman raised Perry and now she’s spending a lot of time with two impressionable little boys who are already a little violent.
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diedofennuii-av says:
I wonder if she was abusive physically or mentally? She’s certainly a master manipulator. Every word she speaks is intended to get a reaction. She seems controlling. Maybe that’s Mary Louise’s big little lie.
That would help explain Perry’s sense of entitlement and lack of empathy. -
rob1984-av says:
Also, what possible treachery could she have experienced by that woman in boarding school Madeline reminds her of? I just kept thinking, if she stole your BF you need to get over that.
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jennitrixie-av says:
Mary Louise’s comment that “fine young men” must first be “fine young boys” reminded me of the way people talk about white preppy rapists like Brock Turner.Also, good casting of those twins because they look a lot like Alexander Skarsgård’s brother Bill (aka Pennywise).
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jeninabq-av says:
You know, every time I read that Meryl Streep is in a new project I wonder why she gets all the roles for her age. I’d like to see Glen Close or Sally Field even. But then I watch the performance and realize why the fuck she’s always worked and probably always will. That being said, maybe she should stop submitting herself for film awards. Although, that’s probably often why she gets hired because she’ll be perfect and will get at least a nom. And it’s not always the actor’s decision. She will certainly be nominated for supporting actress in TV for the globes and the Emmys. As will Nicole, I’m sure.
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assholisms-av says:
I mostly agree that I would love to see Close and Field get the same amount of love, though I wouldn’t mind Meryl snagging a couple more oscars.And you completely described my feelings on Meryl, I always forget why she’s so lauded until I see her in anything and am thoroughly reminded of my blasphemy. Last time it happened for me was on August Osage County but this one takes the cake. I saw the trailers and wasn’t impressed but her dressing down of Madeline and her final scene with Celeste were just *chef’s kiss*
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rob1984-av says:
Sally Field has a really great turn in Maniac on Netflix recently.
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princepessa-av says:
I hated her performance in August Osage County, horrendous overacting in that movie, but in general her performances are flawless. I do agree with you, I wish that some of the juicy roles would go to other equally talented actresses such as Glenn Close.
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assholisms-av says:
I take great exception to this comment especially as that film is supposed be a little overwrought but you do you. I agree Glenn should be given more roles. It’s absurd that actresses like her and Sally Field are so incredibly good at what they do yet don’t get nearly as much high profile work.
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thundercatsarego-av says:
August Osage County doesn’t do any favors to any of the members of its formidable cast. I blame a lot of it on the script, which stripped much of the comedy out of Tracy Letts’ stage play. But not all of it. Julia Roberts and Benedict Cumberbatch are awful (with the latter sporting a truly cringe-worthy accent). Ewan McGregor is better but kind of blah. And Meryl might be the worst of it for me. A rare misfire from her. The less “big name” actors acquit themselves much better, notably Julianne Nicholson, Margo Martindale and Chris Cooper (who is almost always outstanding). I still can’t believe Roberts and Streep got Oscar noms for it.
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bcfred-av says:
She’s just so damn natural in every role. You belive that she’s been this person her entire life. And any moment calling for a movement, expression or inflection is handled with such perfect subtlety that you can’t miss it, yet it’s never overplayed. Her deliberately larger-than-life persona in Devil Wears Prada was ultimately leavened by her quiet moments. This role sounds 100% tailor-made for her.
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Babylegs-av says:
Every time she’s on screen I just stare at her nose and her mouth. They’re just so stern and delicate and terrifying. Fuckin love this woman.
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zorrocat310-av says:
Cory, I didn’t recognize you at firstYeah, I had my breasts doneAhh………(Damn! Meryl can scream, probably in a number of accents, all of them flawless)
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weallknowthisisnothing-av says:
I was a bit undecided about this season, but I’m all in if the reward is seven episodes of Meryl Streep dunking on everyone.
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assholisms-av says:
Seriously. Coming into Season 2 I thought “there’s no way they can carry this show without Perry for another full season” but as soon as Mary Louise called Madeline tiny I was completely invested.And I’m hoping this season will finally explain what is up with Adam Scott’s character. They kept insinuating in the first season that something was off about him and I kept imagining a bad scenario for every scene he was in, but the moment never came.
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bcfred-av says:
I actually thought Perry was to thinly written and the weak point of season 1. Skaarsdude played the menacing parts perfectly, don’t get me wrong, but it was all either abuse or apology. I could have done with more of the middle ground that would have made him appealing in the first place.
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assholisms-av says:
Yeah, but I think that was the point. He was breathing plot device that set the events of the show in motion, he wasn’t supposed to have any more depth because the story wasn’t about him.
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cornekopia-av says:
Plus, the casting alone defined his appeal: Celeste’s hot husband. Too bad he’s a creep, right?
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rob1984-av says:
Agreed. They didn’t really go into much depth with his character. I can understand that to a degree. He’s abusing his wife, do we really need to know more about him? But now that his mother is here I suspect we’re going to learn more about him.
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kumagorok-av says:
There’s also the mystery of what happened to his beard.
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kumagorok-av says:
I need Meryl Streep reducing Madeline’s ex-husband to tears in a casual way, like he’s completely inconsequential like an insect you crush without even being entirely aware of its existence.
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jennyhones-av says:
This was a boring episode about annoying rich people. Reese is vastly overrated as an actress.
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reika-t-av says:
Don’t mean to be negative, but I’m just not feeling it. Whereas season 1 had a strong central conflict (Celeste’s abusive relationship and the school incident), season 2 simply doesn’t. There are two problems here.1 – I don’t really give a damn about Perry’s death, and by extension I find the PTSD displayed by Bonnie and Celeste to be completely unrelatable. I just don’t sympathize with their feelings at all, and therefore I don’t find them realistic. He was a monstrous rapist and he deserved to die. And they should know that.2 – Even if the truth of the incident were to come out, it’s still self-defense, and therefore the only legal jeopardy they’d be in would come in the form of delivering false statements to the authorities. Which, frankly, they all kinda deserve at this point, considering it was incredibly stupid to make those false statements under the circumstances. They wouldn’t have been punished anyway, because again: self defense.So, yeah, bad start to what I fear will be a pointless season. And I don’t think even Meryl Streep can save this.
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chobaniyogurt-av says:
I get the conflicted feelings Celeste and Bonnie have. Bonnie because no matter how terrible a person Perry is empirically, she did kill a fellow human being. That’s gotta stay with you, especially if you can’t talk about it to another living soul.And Celeste’s conflict is clearly nuanced. On the one hand, she hates her husband’s violent streak, she hates what he did to their children, but she was still in love with him when he died and was besotted with his sexuality. She didn’t have a chance to deal with those competing emotions before he was killed, hence her nightmares and her return to therapy. I’m with you on the self-defense angle, though. I thought it was interesting it was Madeline’s interfering with the truth (‘we have to lie to protect Bonnie’), which was misguided even if well-intended. In the aftermath, it’s clear Bonnie would much rather have confessed to self-defense, taken her punishment and been able to work out the fact that she killed someone with the help of her family and a good therapist. Now she has no emotional help and has to keep the secret with 4 other women she doesn’t necessarily trust to have her best interests.
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docprof-av says:
The secret that this entire show is built around still more than somewhat perplexes me. Their story is that Perry was beating Celeste badly, they tried to stop him, and he lost his balance, fell down the stairs and died. The truth is that Perry was beating Celeste badly, they tried to stop him, and Bonnie pushed him down the stairs and he died. Those two scenarios are really not very different. Would people knowing that the latter happened rather than the former really change things? Also, why was there ever a lengthy investigation (that is also still ongoing for some reason) into the incident in the first place? There are five witnesses that say the same thing happened, Celeste clearly has the physical injuries to prove that Perry was attacking her, and there doesn’t seem to be any evidence that contradicts their story whatsoever.
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bobfunch1-on-kinja-av says:
I kept thinking all they need is a long talk with the police and a couple good lawyers… (and this group would no doubt-at-all be able to hook up with some good lawyers. Celeste already is one anyway) … and all this trouble would go away. Mary Louise would scream bloody murder, but she’s doing that anyway.
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seanc234-av says:
Yeah, I had misremembered it as them trying to say there was no fight and Perry’s fall was a complete accident, which at least would differentiate the scenarios a bit.This really shouldn’t have been a problem at all. Even if the DA had for some reason decided to bring charges, the defence would be bulletproof.
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kumagorok-av says:
Yeah, the problem is that the S1 ending was mostly symbolic: Bonnie is the unexpected angel of death, freeing Celeste from her prison and vindicating Jane for her trauma; this act and the secret that begets cement the impromptu “coven”, which shows how female solidarity can go beyond petty divisions like those Madeline had with Renata and Bonnie, while also speaking of women not needing men to win their battles and feel accomplished. In that regard it was good to end the story that way. But the real-life logic of it falters once you let the world of the show continue turning from there.
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hcoffman-av says:
It’s been a while since I’ve read the book but I think (someone correct me if I’m remembering incorrectly) that when Bonnie pushes Perry, he’s not being actively violent so the case for self-defense isn’t quite as strong.I definitely do buy the idea that Madeline was the one who came up with the lie in a misguided attempt to protect Bonnie and everyone falling in line in the heat of the moment.In the lead up to the season I was wondering if race was a factor in the decision to lie about what happened. It would make sense that a black woman would feel unsafe coming forward about killing a wealthy and beloved white man, even if it was self-defense. The premiere doesn’t indicate that the show’s going to examine that, though.
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kumagorok-av says:
I think in the Monterey society the show depicts (true or false that it may be), money trumps race, and Bonnie is backed by money, possibly more than Madeline.What Perry was doing when Bonnie pushed him is irrelevant, though. There are no other witnesses except for the Monterey Five. There’s evidence of wounds and bruises on Celeste, they could easily say Perry was about to break her neck when Bonnie intervened.
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warrenhugs-av says:
I get the sense that Nathan/Bonnie may be wealthy by normal person standards, but in Monterey they’re a little on the “nouveau riche” side. Last season there was a scene where Nathan had a bit of an inferiority complex about running a construction business in a town full of the more white collar/tech millionaires like Ed and Renata.
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cariocalondoner-av says:
I giggled when, during the “Previously On” segment, they showed my favourite moment from Season 1: Renata shouting “I SAID THANK YOOOOUUUUU!!!!” (I don’t think I’ll ever not find that funny!)(Another gem which still cracks me up is “I’ll even get Snow White to sit on your husband’s face. Maybe Dumbo can squat on yours!”)
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cariocalondoner-av says:
… and in this episode I liked her “It’s my house, and I live here” photo shoot. Glad Laura Dern will be getting more to do this season.
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bcfred-av says:
I can’t be the only one who wanted her to play the rest of the season in a full-on eye patch. It so matches her personality.
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randmart37-av says:
I thought that too, but then she’d be too much like Darryl Hannah in Kill Bill
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bcfred-av says:
Ha, good point. Right down to how their eyebrows arch. Could have lampshaded it with a ninja joke, though.
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cariocalondoner-av says:
Your comment made me wonder – I’m sure Laura Dern and Daryl Hannah have been up for the same roles a couple of times.From Laura Dern’s IMdB page: She turned down the role of Daryl Hannah’s character, Andy Huben, in At Play in the Fields of the Lord (1991) after learning that she would have to swim in a parasite-filled river as part of the role.Also, some other info there I didn’t know: Stars along Shailene Woodley in Big Little Lies (2017), where they play two parents with tense conflicts; while in The Fault in Our Stars(2014), they actually portrayed mother and daughter.and Is just 9 years older than Reese Witherspoon, who played her daughter in Wild (2014)
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cariocalondoner-av says:
Ha! Why do I feel like we actually did get some scenes with her in an eye-patch, tearing into Made-LYNE!
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bcfred-av says:
We did, but it was just a weak-ass gauze bandage or something. I wanted her to go full pirate.
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cariocalondoner-av says:
Some of my random observations:
– Even when supposed to be looking depressed, I can’t help but stare at how flawless Zoe Kravitz’s face is. She’s in her 30s now – I reckon she’s one of those actresses who could still be playing a teenager when she’s 50! – Oh what happened to coffee guy from last season who liked Jane? we now appear to have surfer colleague as a substitute, and we have weed-smelling-beach-hut as a substitute for the old coffee place, so I’m guessing we won’t be seeing him this season? That’s a shame – who’s the new guy? I don’t trust him!- And, I thought Jane was an accountant? And coffee dude helped her get new clients in town. What’s she doing working in an aquarium? How does she support herself on that salary in the same community as the likes of Renata? that school can’t be cheap!- I agree with this review: Meryl Streep’s barbs at Reese Witherspoon were delicious. Just when I thought she was apologising she would get more digs in. “I see you’re wearing heels”.- Looks like this season is giving us more of Tori (ahem). Even though this review says characters and stories are spread thin, I actually wouldn’t mind Tori and her husband getting some screen time in the mix too. But I really hope they won’t go down the route of having Tori and Adam Scott’s character get together to get revenge on their cheating spouses …- Speaking of Adam Scott, after that exchange between Madeline’s men I’m now definitely Team New-Husband. I can’t believe the gall of the Ex to ask Adam Scott to take his wife to lunch (like the two are girlfriends or something) with the snide implication it’s because he’s a new age wimp who can talk to her “in his little way”, and then he repeatedly calls Adam Scott a snide fuck for not jumping to his demands to do his bidding.-
Babylegs-av says:
I think the school is public, but funded by what I’m assuming is some seriously hefty tax dollars.
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pandagirl123-av says:
Zoe Kravitz – she’s got the genes – her mom is in her early 50s and she looks 30 (and is with Jason Momoa – Lisa Bonet is my #goals), so she has a great future ahead of her.
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kumagorok-av says:
Nooo, they wrote Coffee Guy (aka Good Hipster) out! In between seasons I even loved him (meaning, his performer, Joseph Cross) a lot in that little gem of a sci-fi indie that is Everything Beautiful Is Far Away.When they cut to Jane giving the tour to those children, I couldn’t remember if that was a thing we already knew. Like, “OK, so Jane works at the aquarium now because… uh… she seemed to like the sea?”And that co-worker / new love interest seems like an asshole to be honest. Making Jane look bad in front of the children? Calling her a psycho because she was dancing alone? I couldn’t understand why she was smiling at him.Also, as an European, I learned that Monterey is pretty left-wing. That school is public, for instance, so people with Jane’s income don’t have to share their neighbors’ means to afford it.
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petrichor-av says:
Also, as an European, I learned that Monterey is pretty left-wing. That school is public, for instance, so people with Jane’s income don’t have to share their neighbors’ means to afford it.Not really. A lot of places in the US, the public school system has a lot to do with real estate value. A town with a top tier public school ranking is a lot more expensive than one with a low ranking school district. Yes, the school is free, but a two bedroom one bathroom home would easily cost half a million dollars. The fact that Jane can afford to live there at all, even as a renter, requires a lot of suspension of disbelief.
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tigheestes-av says:
Pretty sure surfer colleague is teenage genius from Continuum.
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cariocalondoner-av says:
Ah, so I guess he has experience playing a know-it-all who interrupts with the right answer …
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warrenhugs-av says:
Yeah, I have to laugh at shows like this that portray relatively poor single moms like Jane living in a detached single-family house (!) in Monterey, which would probably cost about a million bucks these days – hence, Madeline’s burgeoning real estate career.To be precise, I just looked on Zillow and the lowest-priced house (not condo/apartment/etc) in Monterey is $769,000! And after that they’re all $1 million+. The lowest rental price is $3,500/month.
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cariocalondoner-av says:
Oh my gosh, in scenes of Skarsgard and Kidman dancing THEY USED CASSANDRA WILSON’S VERSION OF “HARVEST MOON”!!I absolutely LOVE that song, and every time Neil Young’s Harvest Moon gets played in a TV show or movie (which happens a lot!) I always wish some show somewhere would be different and use Cassandra’s version instead, just once.Coupled with Sade’s Cherish The Day that played last season- this show is really giving me flashbacks to some of my favourite concert performances :
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Babylegs-av says:
Is it just me or are they angling for a Madeline-Eats-Her-Feelings subplot? First she was double fisting red velvet cupcakes at the school, then an hour later she’s at the coffee hut NOT picking up what Celeste asked for but walking around with a muffin as big as her head. I predict this now iconic shot came after a “you want your belt to buckle, not your chair” comment from Mary Louise:
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kumagorok-av says:
“I apologize, it’s not about you, I’m ashamed to admit I’m awfully prejudiced against fat people.”
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zukka924-av says:
One thing i disagree with: Abigail ISNT savvy. She’s every teenager who thinks they know everything. Remember her extremely galaxy-brained decision to auction off her virginity?Like, what skills could she possibly have thatd be useful for this startup? So her making that dumb offhand comment, to me, is a perfect example of showing “wait, this person just thinks she’s profound but actually isn’t, even if her heart is in the right place.”
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chobaniyogurt-av says:
I loved that they made Abigail exactly the same self-centered, entitled teenager she was in the first season. Every 17-year-old is like that: thinks they’re more observant than their parents, actually knows nothing, but loves to talk as though they were the first ones to discover income inequality, racism, climate change… – at the same time they’re still living at home, eating their parents’ food and talking shit about how bourgeois Mom and Dad are.
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bcfred-av says:
It’s delicious that she acts this way while living in an obscenely beautiful and expensive home overlooking the Pacific, with zero appreciation for how someone actually attains these things.
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chobaniyogurt-av says:
Exactly! As far as I can tell, Abigail is perfectly drawn. I cannot stand her because she feels pretty true to life. So good job, actor playing Abigail!
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bcfred-av says:
I guess it would be too on the nose for mama Dern to get busted buying Abigail’s way into a top 20 school.
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rob1984-av says:
I think you mean Reese Witherspoon but yeah, that would be a little too ripped from the headlines.
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bcfred-av says:
yep – meant Witherspoon. But these women are definitely the types, and wouldn’t think they were doing a thing wrong.
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warrenhugs-av says:
I read it the opposite – she’s intensely aware of her privilege, meaning she often goes way too far in the other direction to try and “make up for it” or whatever you want call it. It can be obnoxious at times, but I don’t see her as unappreciative of the power of money.If anything, her plan to work for a startup was way more sensible than I was expecting with all the buildup. Based on last season, I wouldn’t have been surprised if her college alternative was a vision quest in the Mojave or “volunteering” at an African orphanage. Working at a for-profit company with a socially-conscious mission actually strikes me as a pretty sensible compromise. Of course, it’s suspicious that this startup is willing to hire a teenager with no useful skills right out of high school… If Madeline would chill out for a minute – and drop the Stanford-or-bust mindset – she could probably convince Abigail that she could work for a company like that while going to college, which a lot of students do in the Bay Area.
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philadlj-av says:
Big Little Lies, Season 2: “Dig UP, Stupid!”Holy crap that Madeline scene with Abigail was tough to watch. Mostly because Madeline is so wrong and is only pushing Abigail towards college debt because she regrets not going herself. This isn’t about her. It’s Abigail’s life and her choice, and if it turns out to be the wrong one, it’s not the end of the effing world!
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kumagorok-av says:
It seemed absurd to me that wealthy parents don’t just chill (as much as Madeline is capable of chilling) and give their daughter the option to take one sabbatical year before deciding. It’s not like she either goes to college right now or she’ll be prevented to go for the rest of her life.
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mrrpmrrpmrrpmrrp-av says:
right? she might even have something less boring to write in her entrance essays.
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soniagbu-av says:
“It seemed absurd to me that wealthy parents don’t just chill”Um, most people get wealthy because their parents were NOT chill at all.
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rob1984-av says:
It seems like the father doesn’t have as much of a problem with it.
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avclub-ae1846aa63a2c9a5b1d528b1a1d507f7--disqus-av says:
I’d read the book and so binged the first season last year, and at first my husband was like “meh, lady stuff, hate Shailene Woodley” and then got totally sucked in.So now he’s watching with me and after last night said “I always thought Meryl Streep was a little overrated, but damn”
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Babylegs-av says:
This is the general Meryl consensus: the only thing she does anymore is prove to everyone why she’s the motherfucking GOAT of Hollywood. She’s pretty much the only reason I’m OK with a second season of this show when the first was so perfectly self-contained.Which leads me to my next conclusion: I would watch a ninth season of Game of Thrones if Meryl was in it. Dead srsly.
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kumagorok-av says:
It’s not that Meryl Streep is overrated, in that she deserves all praises. What’s annoying is how award entities now just default to nominate her for whatever thing she’s done that year, no matter how inconsequential, even when this means another performer more in need of validation won’t be acknowledged. I swear Meryl herself felt bad to have unwillingly hijacked Amy Adams’ slot at the Oscars in 2016.
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Babylegs-av says:
IIRC, that was the year she was like “I know everyone at home is rolling their eyes because it’s me again” and then said:
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bcfred-av says:
She grew on me over the course of the season, but I’m not much of a Woodley fan either. Granted it wasn’t her fault she was surrounded by the actress equivalent of Murderer’s Row (ha ha) last season, and it just got 100% tougher with Streep’s arrival. But she always felt too young for the role in the first place.
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wordbird-av says:
Does anyone think this episode felt like it was trying too hard? Like, the show has always had an undercurrent of soapy camp, but I feel like they laid it on a little thick this episode. The dialogue was laughable at times, and the moodiness felt hackneyed and silly compared to the first season.Not gonna lie, I was pretty disappointed. I hope Meryl can save this.
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chobaniyogurt-av says:
Nathan is still the worst. Who asks his ex-wife’s husband to take his own wife out for a lunch date and then act like a jerk when the other guy points out this isn’t appropriate – nor would it solve the actual problem?
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rob1984-av says:
Adam Scotts performance was great in that. His “do you now hear yourself?” face was great.
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cariocalondoner-av says:
Or after Marley (who was named that after Stardust, but Jane may not even know that!)
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kumagorok-av says:
It was established in the pilot. Chloe: “What kind of music do you listen to? Don’t tell me. Bowie!”
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diedofennuii-av says:
I don’t think Renata’s husband is scared of her success, it was set up last season that she was always more successful than him. His room full of trains seems a long-standing metaphor for feeling emasculated. I think the the incident created the bond she needed to obtain the status she has always wanted with the other women. Without her insecurities from being seen as a “Working mom”/Outsider, she now has nothing holding her back. Her fragile tower of insecurity has a big, heavy mass of confidence on top, just waiting to cause an avalanche.
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danniellabee-av says:
I think you have hit the nail on the head with your analysis here. Excellent summary!
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disqusdrew-av says:
Last season was terrific and this 2nd season premiere looked like it captured at least the feel of the 1st, but I have to admit I’m having to suspend my disbelief going into this season about the investigation. I hope they drop it as the season goes on but I doubt they will. I just have a really hard time believing the police would actually be investigating a situation like this and that there would be a very real, serious criminal threat to these women.Perry was beating Celeste. The women were fighting him off. In their version, he slipped and died.There’s 4 witnesses that saw Perry attack Celeste. It’s pretty open and shut it was self defense. Even in what really happened, Bonnie shoves him away, he falls, and dies its still self defense. It would take one hell of a lawyer and a lot more evidence to determine that Bonnie’s actions were premeditated and that she fully understood in the moment that she was going to kill Perry. And I have a hard time buying the police and the town’s “Monterey 5″ stuff as if these women made some kind of pact to kill him. They made it clear that these women had conflicts with each other yet they would all buddy up to plan to kill Perry? After all the stuff between Renata and Maddy/Jane, would any of those other townspeople really believe Renata would lie to benefit Maddy/Jane or vice versa? This starts falling apart a lot the more you think about it.Sorry to go rant on yall. Don’t get me wrong, I’m still fully on board with this show. But like I said, I gotta suspend some disbelief here. Hopefully the show starts focusing more on the effects of trauma and these women’s relationships.
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chobaniyogurt-av says:
Celeste’s therapy sessions were the absolute best part of Season 1. I’m glad she recognized she needed to restart them. More of that!Did anyone else notice Celeste’s jaw-dropping walk-in closet had been scrubbed clean of all of Perry’s clothes and shoes and her own clothes had migrated over to the empty space? Whoever dresses the set has a great eye for the small details.
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Babylegs-av says:
Yes, I definitely noticed the “mess” that she’s made of the bedroom now, and I noticed Mary Louise noticing it too. Granted, her mess is what my apartment looks like on a good day, but it was a subtle nod to both Celeste’s grieving process and her newfound freedom.
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warrenhugs-av says:
The therapist is a great character. I just realized during this episode that she is played by the same actress as Calamity Jane from Deadwood! Talk about range.
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gsollars1970-av says:
It looks like they’re already set up the big mystery for Season 2, by which I of course mean – WHO gave Shailene Woodley that haircut??!!! Or that wig, if that’s the case. Just tragic. But yes, like many others have noted, this is going to be well worth it just for Meryl Streep’s digs & burns – her explanation (for the earlier dig) at the real estate office was fantastic – an apology……WITH some background, that just turned into another dig (but technically an apology). She’s the best.
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pinkpicnic-av says:
Bad/dramatic hair changes are normal and expected after trauma. It looks weird but I appreciated that attention to detail. You change your hair to change your life, and sometimes the change is very awkward.
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soniagbu-av says:
“A savvy young woman like Abigail would never diminish the trans population to people that just “mull over a sex change” in college.” I think you missed the point of that line? She was being sarcastic.
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mandalalala-av says:
I will watch this but Meryl Streep’s character stresses me the hell out. I couldn’t put myself through it last night. This week
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therealanniesisk-av says:
I’m waiting for that weird story ML told Madeleine about her short fake former bestie from school who betrayed her to come back around with a Chekhovian bullet.
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acsolo-av says:
Robin Weigert as Dr. Reisman is the most calming presence.
Laura Dern power posing in a gown is just what I needed. -
gally88-av says:
I still love the show, nothing will change my mind. By the way, how you watch the show if you are not from the US? Because I need to use Surfshark VPN if I want to unlock it.
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bobkatnadamar-av says:
“Worst of all, some of the dialogue is downright hurtful. A savvy young woman like Abigail would never diminish the trans population to people that just “mull over a sex change” in college. And Madeline’s “shove it” comment to Warren was too awkwardly acrobatic to make much of an impact.”Don’t forget hot aquarium guy asking Jane if she’s on the spectrum, like what?
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loginuniqueidentifier-av says:
I think the insensitivity of that dialogue kinda mirrors their privilege. Like Monterey is the kind of place Tyler Perry satirizes in Get Out. But I agree about the “shove it” line.
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cariocalondoner-av says:
Monterey is the kind of place Tyler Perry satirizes in Get Out
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drew-foreman-av says:
what a ridiculous insult to Jordan Peele. holy shit man.
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michaeldnoon-av says:
I think the aquarium guy alluded to the fact that he might be (and most definitely is) on the spectrum himself, thus explaining why he would speak so bluntly and rudely to her.
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genejenkinson-av says:
Worst of all, some of the dialogue is downright hurtful. A savvy young woman like Abigail would never diminish the trans population to people that just “mull over a sex change” in college. And Madeline’s “shove it” comment to Warren was too awkwardly acrobatic to make much of an impact.Did… did we watch the same first season? Most of these characters are not good people. Even ones that are recovering from past trauma are still covering up a murder. The entire framework of the show is built around women that pretend they’re woke mamas that can Have It All, but they still fall into manipulative backbiting and privileged worldviews. Seems like a weird criticism to make considering the show itself has no compunction about portraying Madeline or Renata’s behavior in an unflattering way.
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boymeetsinternet-av says:
Re-Binged all of season 1 in one day. Glad to see the show back
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mrsouchi-av says:
Ok lets say the truth comes out now…would they get into trouble? Maybe for lying but it just seems a bit of that this detective wont let go..clearly Perry was punching his wife that night so is it really a big difference if he gell or got pushed? Im not saying just kill the guy but its not like they planned it..so no idea why this detective is so into it.Also as much as I love Streep – im already annoyed. Like finally the husband is gone and now this? That poor woman cant get a break
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drew-foreman-av says:
So I just binged the first season this week (loved it) and was floored by the performances, obviously, but also Vallee’s direction. I figured that would be a standout after Sharp Objects (yes my viewing is all backwards) was so amazingly directed. So now after watching this S2 premiere, and realizing Vallee did not return, I’m kind of shocked to see Arnold just do the exact same thing here. That’s… not great. Not that I don’t love the style, but knowing it isn’t actually coming from its originator is kind of messed up. I hope to see Arnold leave her own damn mark on this season in the coming episodes.Also in no way was Ed “ogling his step-daughter” last season. As for Bonnie, a little yeah, but not in an overtly creepy way as much as just entertaining the idea in his head as he was dealing with Madeline constantly talking about, and probably still havinng feelings for, Nathan.
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dirtside-av says:
A bit late here, but I assume Abigail isn’t going to college because she wants to run off to South Dakota to be a hunter.
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