The White Lotus dissects the ways men try (and fail) to understand the women around them
Plus, is there a better sneerer on American television than Aubrey Plaza?
TV Reviews Beau Greg Jon Gries
“In Sicily, women are more dangerous than shotguns.” So we’re told in The Godfather. It’s the throwaway line we get to hear from the TV in one of the beautifully stylized rooms at the White Lotus: Sicily, the kind that plays like a highlighted leitmotif of what’s turning out to be quite the sexy second season of Mike White’s Emmy-winning series.
We hear the line as two Sicilian girls have seduced themselves into a midlife crisis’ed American’s room. Or rather, that’s the way Dominic (Micheal Imperioli) would have us read the scene, with two sirens having leveraged his lust for their own purposes. They may be as dangerous as shotguns. But someone still has to fire those weapons. Indeed, as much as The Godfather line would have us begin to wonder who of these women (not just the Sicilian girls but also the girls visiting Sicily) are to be feared because of their danger, The White Lotus seems just as intent to have us examine the reasons why men would frame the women in their lives with such rhetoric.
Take Cameron (Theo James, having the time of his life with this douche bro of a role). The only way he can understand his college friend’s marriage is by drumming up one of the most tired sexist tropes around: Harper (Aubrey Plaza) must clearly have cut up Ethan’s (Wil Sharpe) balls. It’s a narrative his dutiful and beautiful wife Daphne (Meghann Fahy) wholly endorses, agreeing with him that she’s baffled by women who cut off their husband’s balls only to then complain (as Harper may have inadvertently done at dinner) that their husbands don’t want to fuck them. It’s something she’d never do to Cameron. Even though she could.
In a way, that kind of dynamic echoes what we see with Tanya (Jennifer Coolidge) and her prenup signing beau Greg (Jon Gries), who may or may not be having an affair all while losing his patience with his new wife. If in season one, he approached Tanya and offered her the vacation fling-cum-romance she’d always wanted, here he’s reduced to being constantly frustrated with her whims and her desires. Yes, he mollifies her; he gives her the Sicilian afternoon of her dreams! But he’s still testy (see: that Vespa ride!) and ends up creating a bigger wedge between them that may or may not be due to the fact that his billionaire wife would leave him with nothing if they don’t work out.
Indeed, the entire episode seemed to hinge on the various ways men try (and fail) to understand the women around them. Yes, even Albie (Adam DiMarco) who espouses the theory of the “nice guy” (all girls bemoan they want one; none of them actually do) as he coyly hits on Portia (Haley Lu Richardson)—and maybe even outright ignores what she’s sharing with him? His choice to not be like his cheating dad seems to be a great one, but was I the only one who found his nice-guy shtick just a tad, well, hollow? But maybe I’m just proving his point. I’ve been taught not to trust or want nice guys.
And at the crux of all of this warring of the sexes and the need to imagine codified ways of how men relate to women (don’t get Bert started on what Dominic did wrong; it wasn’t the cheating, it was being sloppy while at it!) is, of course, desire. This is a hot and steamy episode that opens with a porn-fueled masturbation scene (and an attendant boner in boxer briefs), includes a very (wink) convincing line about a couple’s sex life (“No, the sex is amazing,” Harper protests), and ends in a sinful threeway—not to mention a presumably compromising overhead phone call. Yet at every turn these moments feel like fissures rather than bonding moments, as if what we’re witnessing is a series of moments where these intimacies will risk undoing those who most indulge in them.
How all of these unruly desires will unfurl in the next few episodes—and how they’ll likely unravel many of these characters’ lives—is no doubt what’ll keep us coming back week in and week out as we live out another week at the White Lotus: Sicily.
Stray observations
- “This is such a beautiful view. I wonder if anyone’s ever jumped from here.” Are lines like these laying the threat of death and violence a tad too thick this time around? Perhaps, but Coolidge’s delivery can make any blunt piece of dialogue sing anyway. (See also: Persephone’s story as recounted by F. Murray Abraham’s Bert: how many other foreshadowy metaphors and fables will we get before we finally see which guest[s] drowned…?)
- We’re only on episode two, but I wish we were getting more from the hotel’s staff. Part of the joy of season one was watching Armond’s story unfold in parallel to that of his guests, and I’m missing that same kind of symmetry. But maybe I’m just being selfish: I want more of Sabrina Impacciatore, whose exasperation as Valentina when dealing with clueless Americans renting Vespas or asking for, ahem, “friends” to be added to rooms in the hotel is a delight to watch.
- Even as this episode (and maybe the season as a whole?) may not have worked wholly (we’re still in set-up mode, I guess), you have to thank Mike White for gifting the entire Tanya/Vespa sequence. Just as in season one, perhaps, The White Lotus works best when understood as a vehicle for Jennifer Coolidge’s many talents—all of which are displayed not just in that hilarious sequence (“I have a bug…”) but in the dinner sequence that follows. (Her slurping on her Spaghetti alle vongole alone was divine.) In her hands, Tanya is both clueless and perceptive, wide-eyed and keen-eyed in equal measure; it’s a hat trick of a performance, really. Which, true to form, is also hilarious to watch.
- It may have been a throwaway moment in the episode but it was still welcome to hear a brief discussion about Puerto Rico paired with the usual vapid responses from the likes of Cameron and Daphne, who can expound for hours about Venice resorts but know oh so little about Puerto Rico’s relationship with the United States. (“And it’s part of America but it’s not a state…?”)
- Is there a better sneerer on American television than Aubrey Plaza? Methinks not.
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“we’re all snobs, in different ways” ain’t that the truth.Heart went out to Plaza’s character, girly was trying by the end of the episode but those two would never accept a woman like her into their circle unless she gave up a lot of her own sense of self (and the Puerto Rico discussion I think despite the ignorance, also came with a lot of snide superiority when Plaza very generously mentioned her family).
That final moment of conversation in bed, offering herself up – soul crushingly relatable
right? all just in hopes of aspiring to what she thinks her partner wants or his friends want. as soon as she lets her guard down with Theo James’ character, is the moment he’ll prove he’s just as awful as she originally thought. that’s how dudes like him operate.
It’s excellent nuanced writing that allows for multiple perspectives to be simultaneously feasible. My take on Harper’s conundrum in this episode is that her history of curated cynicism and skepticism is derailing her effort to be free and fun. She gives a definite air of judgment in every glance and offhand remark and is constantly denying it, thereby reinforcing it. This can be an affirming personality where you tell yourself it’s just vigilance, but it can also interfere when people don’t find you genuine if you try to shed it for a moment
it’s true, but I think the nuance is that she probably has had to be vigilant as a woman of colour her entire life. The couple inviting her into their circle this episode while also tearing her apart in the next room just validates that her walls are not irrational.Harper is flawed, but I hold a lot of compassion for her perspective because the very thing she is being disliked for by the white rich couple is also a product of their behaviour.
Am I wrong but is Theo James’ character secretly horny for Harper? Not his type but will definitely bang.
definitely some sexual tension between them, but I feel it’s coming from somewhere a little more sinister with Theo around power.
Or it could be that guys like Cam have spent their lives going after as much ass as they can, including their friends’ wives and girlfriends.
I’d say that’s about power in itself. both over plaza and her husband.
100%, he flirted with her in the water, and is starting to build deniability with his wife. He’s only rejecting her to his wife. This is how he can deny screwing her in the future.
Valentina’s bluntness continues to be my favorite part of this season. When she guessed Peppa Pig when Tanya asked her to guess who she was trying to look like, hilarious. Completely agree that the show could use more of her and the staff.
Agreed. That remark and Jennifer Coolidge getting the bug caught in her throat during the vespa ride were the highlights of the episode for me.
… and Jennifer Coolidge getting the bug caught in her throat during the vespa rideAm I the only one who had a flashback to this movie scene from – damn! – almost two decades ago:
I flashed back to this.
When she also pointed out “Monica Vitti is dead” was the icing on the cake on that line. That and the “So she’ll be sleeping with your father?” I agree that she’s my favorite and that I hope we get to see more of her this season.
So, Harper and Ethan’s marriage: He doesn’t want to get caught masturbating to the porn, so he quickly closes the laptop and pulls up the undies. Which looks like trying to hide something from Harper. Which is bad. But when the evidence of his activity is obvious, he doesn’t lie to his wife. Which is good. But when Harper offers to have sex with him, and finish together what he started alone, he declines and showers off. Which is just sad really. This episode makes a point of showing that Harper and Ethan are very much out of sync, at least sexually.
The woman in the video he chose kinda looked like Daphne.
That would be 90% of the porn out there though. So I’m told. By a friend.
Sure, but within the context of the show and the character, busty blondes like Daphne and your typical porn star could be what Ethan is really attracted to and why he seemingly doesn’t want to have sex with Harper anymore. We’ll see how that develops.
Busty??? When they showed Daphne and Harper side by side in their bikinis, Daphne is at best a little larger than Harper. They’ve definitely dressed her to maximize her assets but she by no means has a porn star body. Lucia on the other hand. . .
Contrary to what this reviewer is believing and writing here, it’s actually not that complicated as to why Ethan isn’t into his wife: Harper treats him like shit and is seemingly always mad and judgemental of everyone around her. The line that Daphne says about women who neuter their husbands and then wonder why they no longer are attracted to them is pretty spot on. Harper only wanted to initiate sex with her husband when she recognized it’s something they are lacking in, and gets upset that he denies her. But she is clueless to the fact that he feels belittled by her all day long, so why would he believe she wants to have sex with him? It was obvious she’s not wanting him for him, she was wanting to complete a task. It’s not very romantic and it sucked the life out of his desire. They are, despite their ability to talk to each other and get along somewhat, not a very good couple and clearly are miserable together.
Contrary to what you’re believing and writing here, Harper absolutely does not treat Ethan like shit. She’s resentful for being stuck there with Cameron, but she offered to have sex with Ethan twice and didn’t get upset with him when she caught him jerking off, and they do get along and have much in common. Not sure how that qualifies as hate.
Oh she def treats him like shit. She’s nearly always criticizing him and projecting her own insecurities and frustrations for outside influences onto him. You’re correct that she’s resentful for being stuck with Cameron and going on that trip, but she’s resentful in large part because she’s clearly attracted to Cameron and hates herself for it. He represents everything she hates about society, but is also physically attractive and so clearly confident that she’s drawn to him and wishes more than anything she was not, because it makes her feel like a hypocrite. She definitely would like to be more into her husband, but in her mind, she sees a wimp. A smart, good looking and successful wimp, but he’s just such a pushover it’s unattractive. Her offers of sex with her husband were hollow at best, and obviously being done not by any real desire for sex with him, but more because she is seeing and hearing right next door a couple who actually desire each other. That is making her come to the conclusion that their sex life is in fact somewhere they are failing as a couple. There was very little intimacy in those offers, and Ethan rightly felt it as coming across as a chore for her. She delivered it all as something she would do for him, not as something she wanted to do together. If you’ve ever been in a dying marriage, their story is really right on the money on hitting all the ways in which you don’t want to accept what is happening before your very eyes, and all the ways you try to rationalize it in order to not divorce, because divorce feels like a failure, even when it’s the right thing to do. Very often, getting along and having much in common is not equal to being romantically good together.
Tl;dr, you must be watching a very different show because she does not do half of the things you claim and imagine her to do. At all.
I’m gonna guess you see a lot of yourself in her.
I’m gonna put you back into the greys. Bye bye.
lol k.
I think this season is treating the prostitutes like hotel staff.
Yeah, totally lampshaded when Lucia was talking about how hotels were invented to make money off of people like her.
really funny
Greg didn’t bat an eye when Tanya mentioned that her assistant was still present, which makes me think he knew all along and just played along.
To the * Sicilians, * Persephone’s abduction occurred in Sicily.Bert uses the myth to marvel at how old Sicily is. I find this funny. Why point to myth when you can point to history? Does Bert regard them as the same thing?Bert also uses the myth as an example of forgiveness. Which, you do you, Bert. But, iirc, the point of the myth wasn’t Demeter’s forgiveness of Hades for his raping Persephone. Also, times change. I hope we’re not judging current conduct by classical standards.
Oh, look what coincidentally just dropped in the last few hours.Kneel before James Bissonette!
These are some of the best history videos on Youtube. Jumping for joy in a field of flowers was never so funny.
I’m not sure about the accuracy of the statement on the video that pro-statehood feelings are on the rise. The most recent plebiscite (2017), in which statehood won for the first time ever, was an absolute joke with only 23% of the voting population actually voting (historically voter turnout on the island is quite high, around 80% or higher).
It should help to note that the actual most recent one took place on 11/3/20, with statehood receiving 52.5% of the vote, and turnout reaching nearly 55%, suggesting that pro-statehood feelings are indeed on the rise.
youtubes are loading on the G/O pages again?
Are Cameron and Daphne #CoupleGoals?
“Her dad committed suicide.”“Can I kiss you?”Yikes.When does Portia connect the dots that Albie sees her as a “pretty wounded bird”?
Yeah the “wounded bird” line is SUCH a red flag. Girl, run.
Harper:
My theory for the season is that Cameron isn’t after Ethan’s money like Harper believes. I rewatched episode one, and in the same scene they discuss Harper being a lawyer specializing in employment law, and Cameron mentioning him having his own disagreement with his employees. Given his continued attempts at seducing Harper, I think he wants something from her related to his own legal troubles, and not Ethan.
OK, I have what I know many will see as a hot take:Judging solely from the season premiere episode (haven’t seen this second one yet) I’m on Jennifer Coolidge’s character’s side and am actually quite irritated with her personal assistant.Hear me out: I know Tanya is high maintenance and a nightmare boss, but the assistant is being paid to hang around in a luxury resort in Sicily with seemingly not a lot of work to do. Boo hoo! Downside is the clear instruction to make herself scarce – not great but, again, she’s in Sicily on someone else’s dime. So why oh why would she then plop downstairs for dinner in the main restaurant!! Order room service! Go out to dinner in town! It’s on your millionaire boss’s tab! A plethora of options and she picks the worst one. She gets no sympathy from me!
Watch the second episode. Your annoyance with Tanya will dissipate as the cartoonish nature of this show comes into sharper focus.
I mean, that’s the joy of this show – nearly all the characters are both obnoxious AND understandable in equal measures. There’s no pure good guy vs bad guy dynamic. Even Jake, the most annoying asshole of the last season, made sense in the context of his mom – and he was right, Armond was intentionally fucking with him!
Why aren’t they funny or entertaining though? Geez the writing and acting are brutal.
Tanya has the assistant she both wants and deserves. She craves drama too much and is too crazy for an assistant who is professional as that person would also maintain appropriate boundaries. Like, a more experienced person would have said “I’ll find a nearby hotel and will remain in walking distance and completely accessible via text/call,” then enjoy essentially being on vacation. But that wouldn’t be nearly as satisfying to Tanya as childishly pulling one over on her husband while also ensuring Portia remains 100% focused on her ridiculousness.
I too came away from Episode 1 with the same thoughts about Portia’s decision to stay in for dinner.Without being spoilery, episode 2 addresses this by showing what happens when she does. As well – all characters on this show are flawed. If you find yourself rooting for them – chances are good you haven’t gotten to know them well enough yet. It’s that kind of show. I’m sure Portia has more on offer than just poor decisions on how to manage her working life.
Given his “nice guy” speech, we can probably guess where Albie is going to end up going as a character.
Without being spoilery, episode 2 addresses this by showing what happens when she does.Look forward to it. I think I might just wait and binge-watch the rest when the season wraps. I loathe waiting a week between eps like we’re in the olden days!As well – all characters on this show are flawed. If you find yourself rooting for them – chances are good you haven’t gotten to know them well enough yet. It’s that kind of show. I’m sure Portia has more on offer than just poor decisions on how to manage her working life.True. Looking back on season 1, I’m trying to think of who the “good guys” were supposed to be …
This seems so ridiculous to me. You’re basically saying that if an employer pays for you to travel somewhere nice for work, every second of your day becomes their property to dictate.Portia’s not enslaved by Tanya, she’s an employee. Her personal time after work is still her personal time even if she’s in Sicily. And Tanya’s request for her to stay in her room for a week straight is both unprofessional and unreasonable.
You’re basically saying that if an employer pays for you to travel somewhere nice for work, every second of your day becomes their property to dictate.Oh dear – of course I’m not saying anything of the sort (basically or otherwise).Just pointing out that I was irritated seeing the assistant sitting in the main restaurant – where ALL the hotel guests are having dinner, felt like the absolute opposite of what she should do make herself unseen. I don’t think we know her usual working hours so there’s no evidence that Tanya is dictating “every second of her day”. I don’t feel particularly sorry for this PA who hasn’t got much to do but lounge by the pool, when in real life around the world there are PAs following their bosses around on business trips, having to work their asses off. Anyway, I did say Tanya is a nightmare boss, and that I know it’s a hot take, and that I haven’t seen episode 2 yet, so – as many replies to my original comment have stated – I’ll probably change my mind about who’s in the right/wrong when I see more …
Asking someone to be unseen for the entirety of a day is trying to control every second of their life in itself. The ask itself is incredibly ridiculous and again, doesn’t matter if the trip was paid for by Tanya or not.
Or that Portia is well aware she’s dealing with a high maintenance, nightmare boss and is therefore too apprehensive and scared to go out and too far and wants to stay close in case if Tanya comes screaming.
It would take a lot to get me on Tanya’s side. So definitely Team Portia and Team Greg.
Tanya’s antics can still be funny, but I’m finding them more and more sad as the series goes on. She has serious problems that all her money can’t fix.
She didn’t tell her to just make herself scarce, she told her to not come out of her room. Tonya is fucking mental.
See my other post: Greg is dead and is a Sixth Sense figment of Tanya’s imagination.
It’s not that she’s hanging around the resort that has her upset, it’s that Tanya wants her restricted to her room in this beautiful place, a once in a lifetime destination, isolated, waiting, purposeless, experiencing nothing, that has her upset.
That was some romantic jerking off. I just find what I want on my phone, then look around for a sock, or something, to finish into.
Albie was giving serious incel vibes this episode. Wondering if and when he’ll have a rage-filled blow up at Portia when she at some point denies him, or maybe he sees her talking to another man, one who is more stereotypically “macho” than he is, and lets it fly.
i’m thinking she turns him down and then he uses the NDA stuff against her
NDA stuff is a smoking gun. He definitely seem to recognize what she was telling him, probably something related to his internship.
I think that’s getting way too deep and “Mission Impossible” for this show. He would have had to have known about her boss and set about a plan to be in Italy, assume the assistant was an available tool, etc… He’s just a college kid on vacation, probably with some issues, because everyone has issues in these things but for maybe one stable character.
Reminds me of Quinn from Season 1 – there were some theories floating around about his sexuality and why he’s hanging out with the native rowers so much. Turns out he’s just a kid.
He wouldn’t have to have known or done any of that? You are suggesting he was purposefully targetting her for this information – something no one else is suggesting – rather than she just accidentally revealed some information recognizable to him as important given his work in Los Angeles which he could use to try and use to get promoted (or against her in rage from being rejected, or both).
Happiness Is A Warm Sicilian Woman?
So Greg – is he still chronically ill?
I’m gonna guess that all his bitchiness and secret phone calls is a red herring, and he’s actually way sicker than he’s letting on. He seems extremely fragile (the squeezing on the Vespa) and in that first scene he’s just sitting in bed spaced out about something… maybe his impending death? Maybe his trip to Denver is a last-ditch medical procedure?
The “I love you too” is trickier to explain, though. Did he mention being married before, or having any children? I’m just not sure why he’d feel the need to berate Tanya for things like eating unhealthy macarons if he didn’t actually give a shit about her.
I bet he was speaking to a relative about his illness being fatal and keeping it from Tanya because he feels she is too self-centered to open up to. Definitely feels like there is a misdirect at work with Greg.
Yeah if we’re following the narratives from season 1, there should be a lot of early misdirects. Seems way too obvious to paint Greg as an evil schemer this early in the season.
I actually think this was a dream fake out. She woke up (or did she?) and went looking for him, and heard him say things that would be her worst nightmare.
It would really be a drag if Greg was just secretly a really bad dude this whole time…it gave my stomach a joyful little flutter to discover that Tanya and him married, seeing as his honesty and heart (and/or horniness?) in light of her biggest issues gave her a bit of a nudge to make some peace with herself and her situation. Even if it’s a bittersweet outcome, I hope the best for their relationship.
Then there’s white women, who think they understand gay people and POC lol
White women can’t be gay?
This is how the prejudicial snake eats itself. Confusing the general with the particular.
Gay men are some of the most misogynist people on the planet.#notallies
The poor, much-maligned Ies! #NotAllIes
I was expecting Tanya to say “i wanna look like Sophia Loren” who is the most well-known Italian actress in the States. I have a hard time believing Tanya would know of Monica Vitti who is known for starring in Antonioni classics and Tanya seems hardly the conossiuer of European cinema. I would even accept her saying Claudia Cardinale but Vitti? It’s a line that only a gay man of a certain age who is a cineaste would write. Vitti is a refined taste that Tanya doesn’t possess.
nah, a central theme is that being “cultured” or “refined” does not equate to having substance.
exactly. Tonya didn’t understand or appreciate the movies, she just enjoyed the way one of the actresses in them looked. So, she learned that actresses’ name.
I can’t picture Tonya watching trash tv or listening to bad music, I bet she watches and listens to lots of art and probably has experienced more interactions with artists than most of us. But she doesn’t have any depth to absorb any of it.
Which… that’s how real art gets made, by bewildered rich people willing to pay for what they don’t understand. Art, and vespa rentals I guess.
lol true dat. we need these tonya’s for the money.
Tanya may not have seen any of Vitti’s work, but surely she’s read about the “Queen of Italian cinema,” no? Vitti did a lot of comedy, too.
But I think the line is White’s commemorating her passing this past February at the age of 90.
Not sure about that. Now that we know a little bit more about her upbringing, it’s not a stretch at all if she took cinema and history classes at her (no doubt) private schools.
I agree that the show dissects how men try and fail to understand women. But aren’t the women doing that too? Harper is actively ruining the vacation for her husband, and never credits him for anything or throws him a bone despite his understanding and patient ways. Maybe she does understand him but they’re just a bad match… I’m just bummed that one of my favorite shows may primarily be a vehicle for pointing out the flaws in men.-Frustrated straight white male trying not to become an incel 🙂
I think they’re just a bad match. For the frustrated, the books Unplugged Alpha and No More Mr Nice Guy are pretty good. The books work to respect the mechanics of both men and women. Just don’t take any one book too seriously, each of those two has issues.
I’ll check those out, thank you!
Harper is not actively “ruining the vacation.” She’s annoyed and resentful towards Ethan for having them hang around that vapid airhead couple that she can’t stand that he seemingly respects and defends. And while there are signs that Ethan is not all that attracted to her anymore, it’s way too early in the show to know if they’re a bad match. They still seemingly love each other and generally get along. If anything, you should be examining more Cameron and Daphne’s marriage who looks too good to be true. Especially with Cameron who is clearly trying to flirt and tease Harper while Daphne does not seem to be happy being a mother.
Good points. She’s not ruining the vacation, just expressing herself and her feelings of disapproval for the airheads (as would I). Cameron and Daphne definitely have underlying issues they don’t examine. Cameron is scary and so far seems like the most toxic male in the show…although the Hollywood dad could be trending toward that indictment.
I loved Greg and Tanya’s argument in the restaurant because they were both right. Tanya fails to grasp that Greg’s financial future is tenuous because of the prenup. And he’s DEFINITELY right that she is prone to flippantly disposing people (see: Belinda, Season 1). But she’s also right: he hates her. His contempt is palpable and yet he stays and stews. That’s my favorite kind of fight, when both sides are very, very wrong and correct simultaneously. That said, the whole bug choking thing on the Vespa was too dumb for even Two and a Half Men. Really embarrassingly dumb.Also: Albie is DANGEROUS. His creepy nice guy sheen really came to the fore this episode. Like his father, Albie superficially wants to defy his own father’s legacy, but I suspect deep down he is the same (or maybe worse). Just as Dominic sneers on Bert’s pathetic flirting while hiring borderline of-age prostitutes, Albie claims to be distinctly nicer than his father while betraying a darker side. This dynamic finally got a little interesting.The Cameron-Harper dynamic continues to be a highlight. I do think Cameron and Daphne are kind of vapid but I also think Harper is a snob. Also, it’s clear Daphne’s experience of motherhood has been difficult, even if she rarely shows it. Portia and Valentina need to be given more to do other than being a comedic obstacle/love interest and one-dimensional uptight manager, respectively. Give us more!
Valentina one-dimensional? She’s been giving us some of the best lines, humor, and personality of the season so far with her trying to maintain order admits the chaos of dealing with vapid moron rich American tourists riding Vespas in the courtyard and importing prostitutes into her hotel.
All they’re giving her is a character that stomps around and snaps at people. Armond was given so many more layers — publicly beseeching, privately seething (and also something of a predator in his own right). I’d just like to see more “behind the curtain” with characters.
It’s only been two episodes dude. Let’s wait to see for the season to progress to see how she turns out. So far, I like her open and direct bluntness as opposed to the passive aggressive Armond.
“That’s my favorite kind of fight, when both sides are very, very wrong and correct simultaneously.”Yup — thanks for seeing it. Everyone’s a “relationship expert” until they talk to relationship experts.
The scene where Daphne describes her difficult, very difficult birth, and Harper watches Cameron’s real emotion — real love for Daphne — was pretty amazing. It lifted all of the characters. You could see Harper trying to get beyond her own (probably perfectly correct) prejudices.
Really miss the quality of the White Lotus review/recaps from season 1.Definite drop in quality in terms of analysis and thoroughness.Some interesting points being made but there’s a strange vapidity to the reviews here I can’t quite put my finger on, does anyone else get that sense from the tone and tenor of this content?Like it got a little duller?
The AV Club went from having a staff to hiring freelancers presumably for very little money per article. I don’t think the current writers lack talent but I also don’t think they’re able to put in the time and effort we used to see.
Maybe no-so-crazy takes: Greg already died and isn’t really there. It’s the fan-service Tanya being whacked out about her loss (and whacked out in general) and the writing not really giving a shit about how so many things wouldn’t make sense to that end as currently played. (He’s no M. Night Shyamalan) It might explain why the manager was SO freaked out about “Tanya” taking the Vespa – she was alone. There’s been no actual interaction between Greg and Porchia – which is ridiculous. Greg’s character basically saying “She has no idea…” It’s the worst plot line as it is, but we’ve seen far worse in other HBO gold star productions (hello, Nicole Kidman).
Theo and Daphne are broke scammers on the make. (He doesn’t even have luggage) Their scenes when they’re alone should logically infer that, but that’s probably just a lazy misdirect. They also never make any concrete declarations of exactly what he does to make so much money, only vague brags on spending it on non-tangible things. The glitch here is that while Harper is perhaps rightly suspicious, White wrote that “they” had been planning this group vacation forever – but then the scenes have been written like they hardly know each other and in fact don’t even like each other. Again, not the best writing – but we’re already watching, so Mike White doesn’t give a shit.
Portia, the wounded bird, made a statement about just wanting to get casually laid on this trip, so developing her as a vulnerable “wounded bird” seems a little off. She’s apparently DTF at least on occasion, so it wouldn’t figure that she would be crushed by a player, if Albie is actually just a scuzzy bruh player. I like some other contributor’s ideas that SHE hooks up with a macho local and he feels manipulated and loses it – maybe then jumping to his death?? (Foreshadowing CI) That would play better to how the characters have been developed thus far. He’s slow and honorable and she just goes out and gets some – and he loses it.
Real world take: Mike White starts getting flack about parading his male talent around with their dicks out so much for no real reasons.
sort of love how unhinged these takes are.i like how you’re going ‘well this thing i’m imagining doesn’t really make sense based on what’s happening on-screen, but that’s bad writing not me being wrong’
That man IS NOT THERE!…oh wait. There he is.
The man’s dick was not out. You saw his bush. A bush is not a penis, sir.
Valentina told Tanya that her husband had already checked in.
She actually says, “Your husband is already here.” (or something close to that) meaning he could be in an urn waiting to be “thrown away” (one of Greg’s lines later on). After that the scenes get in to Greg always being in the shot with Tanya if he silently interacts with anyone else at all (except for the waitress, which I think is a fail in this regards) . I’m not sure how clever Mike White is being with “Sixth Sense” or “Fight Club” type editing chicanery, but it’s kind of sloppily realized IMO, and it can get picked apart. BUT there are all these other weird contrivances and scenes with Greg, plus the past history that lean towards this “ghost” thing. But I’ll grant him that. He’s got a lot going on in this series to write, produce, and edit.
While I’m thoroughly enjoying Valentina’s dialogue and character, it seems a bit strange she would be hung up on Dominic’s situation with his “guests.” Rich dudes bringing hookers to an exclusive hotel would be a fairly regular occurrence, no? Or is it these two particular young ladies that gets under Valentina’s skin (a possible Armando scenario in the making)?
Musings through two episodes:Albie is going to turn out to be the biggest scumbag of all.The floater will not be one of the guests. I think one of the takeaways of this show is that the normies usually feel the ramifications of the wealthy people’s actions.Harper and Cameron are totally hooking up, but not for the obvious reasons they’re establishing. I think they’re both going to end up being sympathetic figures by the time it happens (well, as sympathetic as a character can be on this show).Tanya is truly insufferable. I know she’s supposed to be, but it’s really, *really* wearing on me. Like, to the point where I struggle to watch her scenes. Greg is clearly pulling a con job and has another family out there who is on the take, and he’s questioning his decision because no amount of money is worth dealing with this woman.Valentina is a treasure. Need more of her. Her scene with Dominic was incredible.Tom Hollander is yet to appear, and I’m intrigued to see what his role will be.
Count me all in for the sexual intrigue. Maybe the show won’t have that much to say about class, etc., but I’m in a Portia mood, maybe I don’t always want all that discourse, maybe I just want to have some fun. Must be the Italian setting; Italy always does something to me. (I fully expect to be devasted by the last episode – I’m so scared that anything will happen to the local girls… my heart sank when their names got recorded on Soprano guy’s room. I had thought they were safe, not counting as guests of the hotel, but I guess now they do.)
Both of the young couples are a bit horrible, but in an entertaining way. I’m utterly mesmerized by Daphne – she’s all sunshine and roses and blink-and-you-miss it joking menace – talking about vacations being a perfect opportunity for murdering spouses, reminding her husband she can always cut off his balls. If this season’s corpses are not again the results of tragic accidents, but indeed, murder, I’m putting my money on her as the murderess.
Cameron does seem to love his wife – he had a nice moment at dinner, being all broken up about almost having lost her during a difficult pregancy. I buy it. Still, I’m not sure that his me-too-vibes are entirely baseless or that he’s particularly sexually exclusive. I don’t think he’s genuinely trying to seduce Harper, but he did show her his ass on purpose. Maybe just to mess with her, put her off balance? Or maybe he’s trying to lure her into a compromising situation, to prove to his buddy that she ain’t shit. He clearly thinks his friend could have done better. Maybe because he’s got designs on him himself? In the first episode, at dinner, when wondering about his friend’s lack of game in college, he says “I would do you” – why not take him at his word for that?
I’m also starting to really feel for Harper. Sure, she’s clearly miserable in her marriage, and she’s taking it out on others. But Daphne completely misses the point in her anaylsis of the problem, blaming it all on premature ball-breaking on Harper’s part. I really don’t think that Harper’s attitude is the biggest problem in her marriage – or if so, merely indirectly. True, her pushy demeanor probably got her into that mess – because this guy wouldn’t have married her, if she hadn’t told him to. Because he’s simply not actually into her. This episode she’s already starting to be more accommodating, even vows to be “fun” from now onwards, and still, he outright rejects her advances on more than one occasion!
Cameron suggests that at college Ethan was always too busy for sex, and even though Harper hates Cameron and has found a way to disagree with everything else he says, she’s quick to confirm that this is still the case. I don’t think she saying that to undermine Ethan – she has just acquiesced to eat the damn fish, because she’s noticed she’s creating that impression. You get the sense it spills out of her in spite of herself – she’s clearly genuinely frustrated about it!
My take is that Ethan married Harper, because it was the path of least resistance, and she has never really been his type. I suspect he’ll end up cheating with Daphne, someone he would never have dared to even dream about before he got rich. Cameron’s probably got his number right – he really is the original incel who settled for a Harper/Becky, because he was convinced the Stacys/Daphnes are only for the Chad’s/Cameron’s of this world. Poor Harper! Right now she’s clearly over-compensating her insecurity in an obnoxious manner, but my bet is her insecurity is not unfounded.
I think it would be fun to have a proper love quadrangle – Harper actually wants Ethan, who actually wants Daphne, who actually wants Cameron, who actually wants Ethan. Cameron will finally convince everyone to have an orgy, and then everyone will be crushed when it becomes apparent, why everyone else agreed to the plan.
I’m already tired of the farty, flirty grandpa, but I’m afraid Portia isn’t. She seems to find him more entertaining than Albie (who lost some points with me this episode with his nice guy’s lament). This could go all in a very unpleasant direction, where Portia gives grandpa too much attention because she thinks he’s cute and ultimately harmless, which he takes as encouragement to become even more obnoxious. That’s the potential subplot I’m looking least forward to.
Not bad but the bitch needs to show more cleavage. Show us those titties!