On The White Lotus, guests have hangovers and hookups
"In The Sandbox" also digs into how couples do and do not talk to one another about their wants and needs
TV Reviews Leo Woodall
It’s probably best The White Lotus: Sicily doesn’t constantly remind us that we’re careening toward a finale wherein guests (plural!) meet their ends. Just as in season one, we’re just given that frame on episode one and then we’re asked to live day in and day out following the guests and workers at the hotel. So much so that there are times when I forget the pall of death is what’s constantly hovering every interaction we witness. That is, until a character like Lucia (Simona Tabasco) utters a line like “All whores are punished in the end” (similar to the line a few weeks back when Jennifer Coolidge’s Tanya wonders whether anyone’s jumped out from the beautiful view at the hotel). They’re small jolts that keep you guessing as to how it is that the eventual tragedy will unfold.
Will it be an accident? We’ve seen Bert fall and complain about his health already. And then, of course, there’s Giuseppe offering us yet another instance of health complications taking center stage.
Will it be murder? Those decorative Moorish heads surely set up such a violent ending. As does the story about the house on the island nearby.
Will it be both, perhaps, as it was back in season one? Mike White does love himself a swerve wherein the show’s moral compass need not be compromised, so…maybe.
In any case, I worry about Lucia and Mia (Beatrice Grannò) since they do feel like they’re the ones who are compromising more than one Di Grasso—not to mention the likes of Cameron (Theo James) and Ethan (Will Sharpe). Add in poor collapsed Giuseppe the pianist, not to mention the many “sins” they’ve committed under the nose of one strident Valentina, and you can begin to believe Lucia that they may well be punished by season’s end, like some tragic heroines in an Italian melodrama. All they need is to somehow canoodle themselves into Tanya’s storyline and they’ll be squarely in the show’s narrative bull’s eye.
Then again, the episode ends with Albie (Adam DiMarco) collapsing in bed after being serviced by Lucia as White lingers on a portrait of Saint Sebastian wallowing in agony and ecstasy after being pierced with many an arrow so…it really could be any one of our guests. Except Daphne (Meghann Fahy); she’s the only one White made sure to introduce us to in that opening prologue.
But enough about death. We should talk about the homoerotic bedroom talk between Ethan and Cameron (“I want to be inside you”) after they wake up from their debauchery-filled night, right? Or maybe about the way Tanya does feel like the heroine of an Italian opera, even if her adoption by a cadre of amusing gays on holiday is as fun and cringey as you’d imagine? Or perhaps, yet again, about Portia’s outfits, which have gotten increasingly hilarious, and yet keep garnering her the attention of gorgeous boys with accents? (And yes, we should probably also talk about Leo, the bad boy to Albie’s nice guy.)
But really, we should pause and break down why it is that Harper (Aubrey Plaza) chooses not to confront Ethan about the condom wrapper she finds in the couch in their hotel room. On the surface this should be an easy question to answer. After all, the condom wrapper confirms her greatest fears and she’s clearly paralyzed about what that means about Ethan, about herself, and, obviously, about her marriage. But, and here’s perhaps my attempt to unravel every kind of marital drama ever depicted on stage and screen, couldn’t she just have asked about it rather than strategically leaving it on the bathroom counter hours after she first found it when she realizes it truly is eating at her from within?
Missed communications and miscommunications are at the core of great tragedies and funnier comedies. It follows they’d be equally as necessary in biting satires where the key thing being explored is the way in which couples do and do not talk to one another about their needs and wants. For as much as she complains about Daphne and Cameron having a for-show only relationship, she falters when she sees the smallest of cracks in her own. ’Tis a pity because it’ll surely backfire.
Then again, she’s done no different than Tanya who kept to herself the fact that she heard Greg on the phone talking to someone who we’re led to believe is his mistress. Humans are feeble folks when it comes to tackling such issues head-on. Because who wouldn’t rather have a ball drinking and having finger food (a must!) with a gaggle of rich gays than wallow in complicated conversations about one’s insecurities about who you’ve married? You can’t blame Tanya or Harper for their choices. But perhaps you can learn from them. You best not let anything fester lest you find yourself being shipped on a plane in a body bag. Did Armond teach us nothing in season one?
Stray observations
- An episode after Daphne playfully referred to her husband as a “naughty boy” here we have Jack being introduced as a “naughty nephew.” I wouldn’t think twice of the word except it so conjures up so much of socially sanctioned “boys will be boys” rhetoric. (But also, you can’t deny Leo Woodall, like James, makes this rascal of a “bad boy” who doesn’t mind when gay guys cup his ass and looks great in his sexy underwear, a total goofball of a dreamboat.)
- I wasn’t the only one who felt Mia was having her Roxie Hart moment with Giuseppe right? Only, instead of reaching for her gun after hearing he maybe wasn’t going to make her a star right away, she found herself aghast at the fact she’d given him the “wrong” pill earlier. Oops! (But also, wouldn’t you have done the same?)
- I’m going to need an art history major to walk us through the many paintings White and his production design team have assembled to adorn the many rooms at the White Lotus: Sicily. They all seem so overdetermined with meaning that, as with the opening credits, you’d likely be able to track the season’s arc just by examining them all as a whole.
- What do we make of Tanya’s treatise on female friendship (“most women are drips, but it’s not their fault. They have a lot to be depressed about,” she muses)? Especially after we’ve heard similar from Daphne, even as she’s tried to make herself available to a begrudging Harper?
- More awkward Valentina flirting, please!
127 Comments
she falters when she sees the smallest of cracks in her own.Even if Ethan and Harper appear to be disconnected sexually, they are very connected in their communication. Now she might not have the level of communication she assumed. To me they are the more intimate couple. Daphne and Cameron are very different people away from each other, Ethan and Harper stay true to who they are even apart.I think it makes sense why her character is terrified of asking what he seems so keen to hide. it’s not a tiny crack, it’s potentially devastating. Ethan also could have communicated the events of the night. Give a girly time to process in her amazing swim suit top.*sidenote, I fucking love Portia’s wardrobe.
Wtf, Ethan?! Marriage vows trump the bro code.
Okay, show, now let Albie and Jack hook up.
Really difficult time accepting Harper not confronting Ethan. I think we certainly have been given enough of her character that she would bring it up to him. I honestly think she knows he wouldn’t cheat…..and he didn’t……so her distant disposition , while well played, just didn’t ring true for me. Also with Harper knowing Cameron cheats, and she shared that with Ethan, there was no bro-betrayal him telling her what happened.Otherwise a solid episode. Getting Tanya out of her funk with a hilarious troop of gay guys was spot on, adding a straight boy-toy to the mix coasting on the generosity of all of them felt perfect, especially Portia hooking up with him.
Also with Harper knowing Cameron cheats, and she shared that with Ethan, there was no bro-betrayal him telling her what happened.But she doesn’t know what happened in this particular instance so Ethan is still under Bro Code obligation. That’s Bro Code 101.
It also defies logic that Ethan would worry about adhering to bro-code with a guy he KNOWS is just after his money AND his wife has just confirmed to be a cheating philanderer. I’d have preferred they flipped the script here and had Ethan and Harper strengthen their somewhat awkward marriage by uniting and scheming to take down the frauds. Instead, it’s the typical trope of not telling someone something obvious just so contrivances can happen. That alternative would be a load more to write though. White might be better served by having a few less characters in these series so the plots aren’t spread so thin.
That particular trope is lazy storytelling 101. The amount of goofball shenanigans it takes to make these contrived stories work hinders the great work the actors have been putting in.
but Mike is playing with italian comedies and tragedies, like the reviewer pointed out. these are fundamental tropes to the story he is telling.
I mean, Ethan did kiss Mia, albeit briefly. Yes, he turned down her advances, but it’s still sketchy enough behavior for him to rather not tell her about it. Plus, how does he explain the condom wrapper being in their suite, and not Cameron’s? That would just beg the question where Ethan was.
I was almost mad at this plot because it ran the risk of falling into a cliche lack of communication, but I think Mike White actually pulled it off. Ethan didn’t sleep with the other woman but did get high and kiss her – it’s not enough that he can’t tell Harper but just enough that he doesn’t want to. And Harper is obviously super worried that Ethan cheated based on the evidence but wants to trust him and is giving him every opportunity to tell the truth. If she has to confront him first, then it’s already too late; she won’t be able to know if he’s telling the truth or trying to cover his tracks with another lie.
When you say defies logic, do you mean is totally in character with every decision he’s made so far on the show? It might defy your idea of how he should act, but Ethan has constantly chosen his bro Cameron over his wife. He dragged her on this vacation with people she didn’t know, who treated her poorly, and made ZERO EFFORT to invite her into their world. He’s worked for Cam’s approval (and criticized Harper for feeling out of place) since the first minute he appeared on screen.
I disagree because I think the whole relationship between Ethan and Cameron and the two couples as couples, is really poorly written. They spoke about planning this trip forever – but they hardly know each other at all. Cameron and Ethan aren’t even sure what each other even really does, they’ve alluded to not being THAT close in college, so it beggars the imagination they would all agree to a 10 day trip to Italy together. Ethan and Harper have issues, but they’ve been painted to be fundamentally loyal to their marriage and the idea of it -although uptight and repressed. Why he would risk all this for bruh-guy WHEN HE KNOWS HE’S AFTER HIS MONEY NOW – it’s just a miss. Certainly as soon as Harper blurts out about Cameron being a serial cheater Ethan should/would have said that Cameron picked up some hookers so he bailed – which he did. By trying to cover it up he leaves himself open to Cameron blackmailing him at any point -all to protect Cameron? A lying scam artist?
THISSSSSS
Bro code is stupid it gets people killed, lonely, STIs, divorced, arrested or turning into incels. or some combination thereof.
and she shared that with Ethan, there was no bro-betrayal him telling her what happened. He still got drunk and did drugs in their hotel room with prostitutes while ignoring his wife’s phone calls. He’s rightfully worried about the strife it’ll cause on his marriage as Harper will understandably be pissed about that. He’s probably also feeling really guilty about that.
I mean, even if I “knew” my husband wouldn’t cheat, but found a condom wrapper in the room after he just spent all night avoiding my calls when I was a bad spot (surely Ethan would know that Harper wasn’t volunteering to spend the night with Daphne), admitted to being blacked out drunk, had been acting weird sexually all week, and was spending the night hanging out with a guy who I already didn’t trust and now his wife just told me that he and all of his friends cheat all the time too, I think I would be rightfully suspicious too. And while she comes off as normally a very blunt, she hasn’t been always been with Ethan. There have been multiple instances now where she has been put in an awkward spot with him rebuffing her trying to have sex, and she clearly feels a certain way about it, but each time has let it go pretty quickly.
Quentin: “All the women here dress like they’re going to a funeral on the beach.”This line stood out to me not because of the obvious foreshadowing but because it’s simply not true.
Lucia has shooting star earrings and a star charm on her necklace, and later on, Valentina gifts Isabella a starfish broach from Pancrazi. Coincidence? (Probably?)
When Mia is getting ready in Bert’s bathroom, Lucia looks at a painting of Saint Lucia, crosses herself, and gets worried for Mia to hurry up so they can leave. The saint is depicted with an extra set of eyes (on a plate) because she is the patron of the blind, with her name meaning “light.” Lucia probably feels a special connection with her based on the shared name. Saint Lucia was a virgin martyr.
I wanna hang out with Bert. Delighted his grandson is involved with the girls his son slept with and he saw naked. “Like father like father, like son.” F. Murray Abraham—good choice for charming, mischievous libidinous old man.My read on Harper’s been that she was in fact jealous of Cameron and Daphne, insecure about her own marriage and class status, and that’s why she was constantly talking shit about them. Finding the condom confirms her worst insecurities about herself and her marriage, so she couldn’t just confront Ethan directly, because she’d be too afraid to learn the truth.It could be a cliche, but what if the bodies in the first episode have nothing to do with any of the characters and it’s White writing a red herring? Maybe they’re fleeing African or Middle Eastern migrants who tried to come to Italy by boat which then capsized.Also a cliche: a future season of this show being sci-fi and set in a White Lotus way off in the future. It’d be a nice tonal change of pace from the sun and sand we’ve gotten so far.Sure, a young twenty something and attractive woman wouldn’t find an older man that attractive, but Giuseppe isn’t bad-looking. He reminds me of a young Jack Nicholson. But glad Mia stopped equivocating and embraced breaking bad.
A sci-fi setting would be quite the departure. But the anthology series could get away from the water with a hotel catering to African safaris or walkabouts in the Australian bush.
I want a change from the sun entirely–a ski vacation here in Canada? 😛
Too much clothing required. I’ve always figured that’s the core reason Survivor only does tropical locales for the last 20 years or so…
Survivor tried that and it did not go well. There has to be reasons for Bikinis.
Hotel pools?
oh yes great point! just less wave montages and musical interludes during the show.
We know it’s not a red herring because Rocco tells Valentina in the first episode that there are “more dead guests.” Granted, initially that didn’t count Lucia and Mia, but now they’re on the guest register and their deaths would make Rocco technically correct.
I went back to the first episode to check the dialogue between Valentina and Rocco about the bodies: ROCCO: One of the guests has drowned.
VALENTINA: It’s fine. The ocean is not hotel property. We can’t be liable for what happens in the Ionian Sea.ROCCO: You don’t get it. Salvatore says other bodies have been found.VALENTINA: What the fuck are you saying, Rocco? What do you mean other bodies?ROCCO: Other guests have been killed.VALENTINA: Rocco, how many dead guests are there?ROCCO: I don’t know… a few?It’s definitely “guests have been killed.” Now, Rocco doesn’t necessarily know that Lucia/Mia aren’t guests, so I guess it could be them. Or maybe we’re going to have non-character guests get caught up in all of this — someone winds up mistakenly poisoning a room service tray for the wrong room or something. But it’s definitely multiple “guests” who buy it this time around.
They also showed Daphne in the water with a leg I believe and IIRC it looked like a relatively young female leg?
Hmmmm… one of the guest has drowned, but “a few” others have been KILLED…one drowning and some other killings. Interesting.
I forgot to shout out Bert’s cogent assessment last episode about the ways in which the old are no longer respected but instead reviled as ugly reminders of less enlightened pasts. (Admittedly, Bert is clearly cut from the sexual harassments cloth, but he’s also astute.) I think Bert’s lament that he may never again see a naked woman also allows us to see the path these men are on. Albie represents young idealism, Dominic represents the loneliness of middle age that sets in once the idealism falls away and Bert represents the sad cartoonishness that sets in when one becomes “irrelevant.”
Like 3 views of the same life.
I agree with your read on Harper. It’s been clear even before this episode that she feels insecure and uncomfortable and that a lot of her supposed tell it like it is behavior is just false bravado.
“Sure, a young twenty something and attractive woman wouldn’t find an older man that attractive, but Giuseppe isn’t bad-looking. He reminds me of a young Jack Nicholson. But glad Mia stopped equivocating and embraced breaking bad.”
Yeah, I find the characterization of Giuseppe actually kinda interesting. Yes, he’s absolutely a creep. But they haven’t (at least to me as a 40 year old gay guy) made him as completely repulsive as they could have (he’s not remotely attractive to Mia, of course, but I could understand her character thinking “It could be worse…”)
I do think it’s worth noting that Giuseppe still plays music in a very high-end hotel where he is visible to the guests. It’s in the White Lotus’ interests to hire someone at least mildly attractive.
Right. The obvious route could have been to make the character completely a parody of a washed up dinner entertainer, but that would completely pull it out of any reality.
C’mon lets have a little love for “washed up dinner entertainers”. Lots more making an honest buck that way than selling out theaters and arenas.
Something about this episode felt so weird to me. Like all the characters just felt kind of off. Like why are Portia and Albie trying to make each other jealous when last episode it seemed like Portia wasn’t into Albie at all? Why does Mia think an old dude working in a hotel lounge can help her break through as a singer? Does Lucia not worry at all about making out with the son of the dude she had sex with in the hotel they’re staying at? Why does the very blunt Harper not confront her husband? I did like the Valentina stuff (as always – as far as I’m concerned, she should be the star of this season). Although I did wonder if the show is going to reveal her advances on her employee as unwanted and exactly the type of behavior she talked to her employee about earlier in the episode. And the new characters (not technically new but they didn’t do much last episode) were a welcome infusion into Tanya and Portia’s storylines.
I think that’s exactly it with Valentina. She’s very much projecting when asking if Rocco is bothering the attractive worker. It’s Valentina who’s interested in her, and she’s sticking to Rocco as an attempt to put Valentina off.
Does Lucia not worry at all about making out with the son of the dude she had sex with in the hotel they’re staying at?
I don’t think she knows; she said he seemed vaguely familiar when she met him at the beach club so maybe hasn’t realised the connection.
I don’t think that’s a concern in her business.
Agreed. This episode seemed filled with SMH contrivance, not the subtlety of the previous episodes. The Valentina turn is downright bizarre. It’s like they re-wrote her character mid-script.
Like why are Portia and Albie trying to make each other jealous when last episode it seemed like Portia wasn’t into Albie at all?
Portia’s not trying to make him jealous; she was never that into him in the first place and has moved on. She even felt bad that he was at the bar and wanted to leave before fuckboi (don’t recall his name) started kissing her. Albie is definitely jealous, but I didn’t read it as he was trying to make Portia jealous either— he also wanted to leave; Lucia was the one who took the initiative.Why does Mia think an old dude working in a hotel lounge can help her break through as a singer?
She’s portrayed as pretty naive, and has recently gotten over her hangups about sex work. As Lucia said, she’s “created a monster.” He works as a singer for a living, and maybe that’s enough for her.
Does Lucia not worry at all about making out with the son of the dude she had sex with in the hotel they’re staying at?
I’d have to rewatch earlier episodes, but I’m not sure it’s been established she knows who Albie is. If she does… hubris? She already charged a bunch of expensive clothes to Dom’s room.
Why does the very blunt Harper not confront her husband?
This one is a little less clear to me, but I’d say that while Harper is normally very blunt re: other people, she’s less so in her own relationship. But I think she thought their communication was more honest than it is, and that broke her a little bit. I think her way of confronting him was to give him every opportunity to tell the truth, then leave the condom where she knows he’ll find it.
Just my two cents.
IIRC Lucia watched everyone getting off the boat and also sat in front of the hotel when Dom and his family walked out the first day. She may not have been formally introduced to Albie but would have seen him with both Dom and Bert, and IRL presumably there would have been some kind of family resemblance. It seems hard to believe she wouldn’t know he was the son.
She is blunt but she’s also a quiet, analytical type. She’s processing the information.
I think most of us in LTRs would have a WTF do I do with this moment (or day) if we found evidence a partner we didn’t totally trust or distrust was cheating. She doesn’t trust him enough to lay it out there or distrust him enough to assume he’s absolutely cheating.
Albie is one of those guys who thinks just because he and Portia hung out a few times, now they’re a couple; he feels betrayed that she’s talking to another guy — that’s why he’s trying to make her jealous. On the flip side, Portia is annoyed by this behavior. I’m not sure Lucia has made the connection, but even if she does know, I don’t think she would care or worry. Harper is holding out hope that he confesses because she thought that they had some kind of pure relationship where Ethan never lies — there was a whole conversation about that in a previous episode.
agreed, Albie thinks he’s owed something just because he was nice to this girl. it’s the fundamental problem when people talk about the “nice guy”. Although I wouldn’t be surprised if Portia’s British boy is a sex worker with the older men, which would be very comical for both her and Albie.
I just assume he is, or there’s something transactional going on with the other men. Either way, I don’t think Portia will care. Her motivation with Albie seems to be purely about convenience — better to hang out with him and his crazy family then sit alone in a hotel room. And invoking the fact that he went to Stanford seems to be about her trying to justify to herself why she’s hanging out with a guy who she really doesn’t like.
And with Harper, she’s already caught Ethan masturbating, he’s rejected her attempt at initiating sex and now the minute she’s gone, it seems to her he’s hooked up — either with Cameron or someone else.
Portia may also feel sexually demeaned because nice-guy Albie ia all over the hottie in the bar, but barely brought himself to awkwardly kiss her. So now she’s playing “See what you missed?” with him. But she also said in her first phone call she basically just wanted to get laid, so….
I thought Lucia started things up with Albie since his dad ended things earlier than she expected, and now she’s gonna end up blackmailing him for more money. Give me more money or your son finds out I’m a prostitute who also banged your dad etc etc. I imagine that wouldn’t sit well with poor Albie if/when it comes out. I suspect he’s involved with one of the deaths, either as one of the dead, or cause of a death(s).
I’m not sure it’s as insidious as that. She shows genuine concern over her actions at the start of the episode and I think Mia’s interactions with Giuseppe are supposed to be contrasted with Lucia and Albie, and Lucia is genuinely interested in Albie rather than using him to blackmail Dominic or seeing him as a new mark to get money from.
Hmm could be. She seemed a bit disgusted with herself in this episode though – her convos with Mia are all about self-regret (probably caused at least partially by her hangover). I saw her flirting with Albie as a way to get out of her reality for a day.I do agree that Dom is going to have a showdown with Lucia and Mia but I think it’ll be about them abusing their access to Bert’s room. I think he’ll cut off their access to the hotel next episode. Maybe at that point, Lucia will use Albie against him.
I can’t tell if Lucia is in it for blackmail, status (he is a Stanford grad in LA), or cause she simply wants a change of pace from the dudes who normally come at her. Albie is the most sexually unthreatening guy around and that might be exactly what she needs if she’s questioning her choice to sell her services (even if she feels terrible mostly from the MDMA hangover).
Valentina has already violated HR guidelines. Like Armond, she’s a sympathetic character, but also a bit of a predator.
She doesn’t want Albie but she doesn’t want anyone else to have him either because she likes the puppy dog attention and wants to keep him around in case. It’s crappy.
Re: Harper, I think she is stunned and paralyzed at her paranoia seemingly suddenly being confirmed. Her previous confidence in the relationship was a mask and now it has crumbled and her emotions are in a knot; She is gripped with doubt. That is what I got out of Plaza’s performance anyway.
Portia is into Albie, it’s just she have a self destructive behavior. That’s why she works for Tanya, and complains and behaves the way she behaves. She will fuck the other guy and then circle back to Albie.
Hot-damn, that was so good. Comic and sad in the same breath.
Unrelated, but I am on my hands and knees begging the AVclub to just take me to a list of reviews when I click on the show name on your website. I’m rewatching some older shows, and those links just going to a show page and a “browse episodes” section that is just non-linking jpegs and plain text is such a baffling, stupid decision that makes so much of your long-running reviews completely inaccessible without googling “show name + episode name +AVclub.”
I found that too. They have boxes with the episode number that you would think you could click & it would take you to that episode – but, nope, nothing happens.I gave up trying to read recaps of early Bob’s Burgers episodes. Too many to scroll through to find the one you’re looking for. Website is broken.
Bob’s Burgers is literally one of the shows I’m going through and trying to read old reviews and comments sections for as well.
They used to do this. I remember very distinctly on the reviews section of TV Club having a drop down menu where you could scroll for a show like “30 Rock” or “How I Met Your Mother” and select it and just scroll for the episode you were looking for. I don’t know why they changed it. I don’t like the way they have it set up now
“…as with the opening credits, you’d likely be able to track the season’s arc just by examining [the many paintings] all as a whole.”Season 1’s comparatively basic tropical “wallpaper” pattern depicted an initially inviting array of exotic flora and fauna that quickly grows from lush to ripening decay. Zooming in then reveals the underlying threat of nature between caterpillars devouring leaves, a fish entangled in the tentacles of a jellyfish. and three natives rowing into a great wave that’s likely to capsize their canoe. The sequence sets an unmistakeable tone that both the idyllic locale and human relationships we are to observe are not as they seem to appear on the surface.And Season 2 carries forward even more elaborately ominous foreshadowing with far more artistic elements befitting a series of classical frescoes in context with the Sicilian setting before giving way to increasingly incongruous details and omens. Blink and you’ll miss the dog pissing on the base of a nude sculpture while one bird attacks another overhead, an ocelot gripping its own bird prey in its mouth, fire billowing from a distant hilltop monastery while the shot zooms down to a blowjob directly below and then a ram fucking a goat, a nude man spears a boar, a woman looks in horror at a man falling backwards down a flight of stairs who has apparently just been stabbed by the knife in another woman’s hand. A rendition of Leda and the Swan, appropriately enough, finally evokes all the age-old themes of deceit, sex, and violence that have come to define The White Lotus as well.
I feel pretty sure Albie the “nice guy” is going to go on rampage, but I can’t be sure who he kills. I’m waiting for a foreshadowed weapon to appear somewhere. I assume Leo the Pool Guy, and maybe his Dad and Grandpa and / or even Lucia die when he thinks Dad paid her to service him, but I think Portia needs to be survive to service the Tanya character if nothing else.
Again, Greg is weirdly not spoken of with any sense of reality. Not a mention of where he went, what he does….. he’s ambiguously just “gone”. I think the Tarot Card Reader determined he’s with a deceased wife he still loved – and she freaked out. It would also explain Tanya reliving his complaints about her behavior and their mostly failed marriage.
WHAT is going on with Valentina? It’s like a completely different character. She went from corporate Human Resources Monitor to obsessed closeted lesbian stalker in 60 seconds…I’d much rather have had Hunter just go off on Ethan about the condom, clear that , then have them deal with a vacation meltdown with Daphne and Cameron who are attempting to scam them. Instead it’s the trope of telling-not-telling the obvious information for NO other reason than false-forwarding of a plot. (She even left the condom wrapper out…)
“Again, Greg is weirdly not spoken of with any sense of reality. Not a
mention of where he went, what he does….. he’s ambiguously just “gone”. I think the Tarot Card Reader determined he’s with a deceased wife he still loved – and she freaked out. It would also explain Tanya reliving his complaints about her behavior and their mostly failed marriage.”
You’re not wrong, but I am still not feeling this Ghost Greg theory. And if he is a hallucination of sorts by Tanya, would she have willed him away?? Why?
I don’t know. I’m not a fan of the plotline – just intrigued. If it pans out I think one will be able to shoot several editing /writing holes in its execution. Its no “Fight Club”. But why else have all this weirdness around a secondary character like Greg? There HAS to be more to make us suffer through Tanya’s act again…
Yeah, I think every point you raise is valid. But I will be disappointed if, for example, we never had Violetta saying under her breath in Italian “Oh, it’s that crazy woman who has a make believe husband,” or something, simply for that plot twist.
Yes. Someone pointed out that White is writing in some Italianate style that requires the constant purposeful-but-illogical misdirections to set up ensuing chaos. “Dead To Me” is built on the same annoying structure. It gets really old.
It would be really interesting to see Lucia continue to interact with Albie like this is a normal fling, while casually mentioning said fling to Dominic… it would probably be the smartest way for her to get paid for the remainder of the week; since Dominic seems to want Albie to be the emissary to Dom’s estranged wife, he would be eager to keep Albie in the dark about the prostitutes. But I don’t know if Lucia has that kind of manipulation in her, and who knows if she’ll hold Albie’s interest since she doesn’t really fit his “pretty, wounded bird” thing.Current predictions… Portia swiped some of Tanya’s pills last episode, not knowing that Greg (maybe?) tampered with them (hence his desire to give Tanya 1 perfect last Italian day and then his sudden weird 2 day getaway to “Denver”). Maybe Portia at some point offers some to either Albie or Jack. That description of the Godfather car bomb meant for someone else felt like foreshadowing.Or I could see Daphne setting up an elaborate scheme to punish Cam (she seemed to stop herself on the edge of confessing something to Harper in the villa, in ‘figuring out how to handle’ Cam’s infidelity) and she gets the wrong person. Hence her panic when she finds an unexpected body in the water…
Does Albie have a pretty wounded bird thing, or does he just like Portia? It seems weird to say he has a type off of a sample size of one.
Albie has a “wounded bird” thing because Albie said straight up to Portia’s face that he has a “wounded bird” thing.
Ok, I must have missed that….That’s a weird thing to say.
Haven’t seen this yet but is that Todd from The Magicians! Ha! Everything’s coming up Todd!
Yep, that’s Todd. I called him Todd no matter what show he’s in.
While I’m thoroughly enjoying this series, some of the character interactions here and there don’t make a lot of sense. Like when Dominic asks Valentina where he can go to get some nice jewelry for his wife. Doesn’t every luxury hotel on Earth have a concierge who can help guests with this kind of request?And for Valentina to not have an answer to this kind of question seems off. She could have at least known to ask one of the dozen employees standing around the lobby for their input. It just seems weird…
I think it makes her more interesting. She could have answered the question but she doesn’t like him and so chooses to try and brush him off. She is not one to hold back her feelings and opinions, and is not the “typical” hotel manager in that way
She was just annoyed with him and him interjecting in her conversation, she obviously knows where a nice jewellery store is.
Do we trust Quentin? He seems to have gravitated to Tanya rather deliberately. I can imagine he traveled to such opulent settings to grift. Or do I just have a cold, dead heart? If Lucia has any counterpart in Season 1, it’s Belinda — two workers with dreams of opening their own businesses who find themselves lost in the grind and fall prey to the whims of more powerful people who don’t care about them.The concealed condom wrapper and wrong pill gag felt VERY Three’s Company. I kept waiting for Jack Tripper to come stumbling through the scene. I agree that many dramas are built on misunderstandings/confusion but the finesse here is lacking. Chill of the week: Portia opening up to Tanya who stares absently until she finishes before proceeding to speak as if Portia hasn’t spoken at all. Tanya doesn’t seem to see workers as real people. Their voices are like those Charlie Brown adult voices. Chill of the week runner up: Listening to Dillon jokingly recount being sexually assaulted. I shivered when he mentioned how “strong” some of the men were. It sounds like more happened than he let on. Daphne and Cameron continue to confound. Their affection is both real and predicated on deeply dysfunctional dynamics. That said, Daphne seems VERY happy and almost dreamy in the flash-forward sequence that opened episode 1. Maybe because she’s one philandering, broke husband lighter? Valentina is creeping me out. She asks her employee if a man is making her uncomfortable and proceeds to inappropriately fan on her. Maybe it’s because people generally are not kind to her but this seems to echo Albie — “nice guys” sometimes are their own kind of monsters.
Do we trust Quentin? He seems to have gravitated to Tanya rather deliberately. I can imagine he traveled to such opulent settings to grift.My thoughts exactly.
Agree as well. When he first spoke to Tanya I turned to my wife and said “That guy’s a con-artist looking for a mark”. The troupe he’s with are just that- a troupe, who fund their adventures with their gains from gullible rich tourists.
She did seem spacey, but I wouldn’t necessarly read that as happy – could also be delusional/melancholy/disassociating. To me it, it seemed pretty weird. Also the way she kept going on about it to those other two tourists, who were clearly just being polite.
“Chill of the week runner up: Listening to Dillon jokingly recount being
sexually assaulted. I shivered when he mentioned how “strong” some of
the men were. It sounds like more happened than he let on.”
I assume you mean Jack? I dunno, I feel kinda awful now for my reaction to that comment, but I didn’t read any of that into it. Maybe it’s my own experience when I was younger occasionally ending up with friends at rich older gay guy parties (the difference being I am gay) but I genuinely don’t think a character like Jack would see drunk/high guys he was partying with, grabbing his ass as assault.
YES, Jack! Got that mixed up. In any case, I went back to the transcript and it’s very open-ended (and I’m certainly sensitive to portraying gay people as predatory). Jack says that Palermo is “all right, if you don’t mind a bunch of gays grabbing your arse and copping a feel.” Portia asks if he minds and he says, “No, no, but, like, you know, these guys get… pissed. And some of them are really fսck¡ng strong as well.” So, while it’s certainly open-ended it felt like he was revealing that he may have experienced more than a few stray hands. Far from a slam-dunk interpretation but it was as much in the inflection as the words themselves.
I can totally understand your reading. The way the dialogue was given for me made me think that he honestly laughed it off as just something that comes with the territory. I know some here have guessed that he might not actually be a nephew but have been hired to accompany the older gay guys—I didn’t get that vibe, but at the same time I just felt that he honestly knew that if he played along with their flirting it meant that he also got this amazing vacation, etc, and that wasn’t a price too high for him (in some ways not all that different from Lucia’s attitude, although I’m not implying Jack necessarily has been sleeping with any of them.) And now I’m simply not sure lol
I doubt he is truly a nephew; if your uncle was a globetrotter why would you only have gotten to Europe as a grown man? I think that’s a near certainty.
Well in that case then I don’t think being felt up at a wild gay party he is being paid to go to would seem like a sexual assault to Jack at all, but part of his job… (But I do feel kind skeezy saying that…)
“Do we trust Quentin?…” Re: “Do we trust Quentin? He seems to have gravitated to Tanya rather deliberately. I can imagine he traveled to such opulent settings to grift. Or do I just have a cold, dead heart?” – well, if you do, so do i? The Harper in me screams that, No, i dont think we can trust Quentin. This is TWL, after all. People here are not what they seem. I was initially happy for tanya that she was adopted by this troupe of nice, fun gay men. But then i thought “seems too good to be true”. i was creeped out by Jack’s comment abt them being “strong”. He might be a sex worker- i dont believe he is anyone’s “nephew”. And his comment abt never having travelled or leaving Essex before. Isn’t he nephew of someone rich? Doesnt he come from money? tanya’s new BFF Quentin might just be a grifter looking to grift. Or kill her?? Jack did mention that they always hang out with rich old ladies. Why?
Harper does not confront her husband, because she wants to give him a chance to come clean on his own. She asks him multiple times, what he did that night. And if he told her the truth – Cameron invited sex workers to their room, they took drugs, Cameron slept with the sex workers, but he didn’t – that would be a challenge for the relationship, but a start, something she could work with, a chance to rebuild things. But he doesn’t. So he has something to hide. He doesn’t trust her to be able to deal. And the momentan she has to spell it out, he will never have that chance again, to be the guy who tells his wife everything, and she fears that their relationship won’t recover.
I’m utterly baffled why so many people here find that so hard to understand.
This. I tried to articulate this upthread. If she has to confront him in order for him to come clean, it’s already too late: he’ll be either the guy who cheats on her or the guy who lies to her, and either way the relationship is broken.
I mean this is the guy who repeatedly turned down his wife trying to be sexy in preference of his porn.
Also, I very much don’t enjoy seeing Valentina “flirt” with her subordinate. 1) She’s doing what she accuses Roco of doing. 2) It’s even worse, because she’s her superior. 3) She tragically misreads the situation – the younger woman admires her and sees her as role model, and that’s it.
I enjoy the Albie and Portia storyline much more, now they’re hooking up with other people- they are just hard to watch when they are with each other, and they have so much more chemistry with their current love interests. Unfortunately, I’m now convinced that this is exactly the point and the very reason why Albie and Portia are actually endgame. They are still a horrible match, and them getting together will a be the sort ending that might look cute, happy, aspirational at the most superficial glance to someone who doesn’t know either of them but is actually very grim and I think this would fit the tone of the show.
I thought they couldn’t get together because Albie would ultimately resent Portia too much for being too blatantly distracted by other temptations. But now that he’s having his own distraction, they’re even and that barrier is removed. They still won’t have any chemistry whatsoever, but they will be able to arrange themselves with that.
My guess is Albie will have a wonderful time with Lucia in the next episode, and it will be downright charming – Albie will pull all the romantic stops, and Lucia might start to hope that he could be her boyfriend, not just a client, that he might even take her home to his friends and family. But of course Albie would never introduce a girl like her to his friends and family – even if she hadn’t slept with his dad. He loves to rescue a broken bird – but a damsel, not a fallen woman. Also, Lucia’s poor, and frankly, that’s probably enough to disqualify her. Ultimately, Albie has a very clear idea of the sort of partner he needs to have at his side to project the image he wants to project.
And so does Portia. Right now she wants a hot summer fling, and Leo’s perfect for that. But she feels a bit guilty, because on paper, Albie has so much more longterm potential. That won’t stop her from having a lot of fun with Leo though. Then Albie’s Grandpa will have some accident/health scare, and Portia will find him and call the ambulance and wait with Albie in the emergency room or something – or maybe just go to him to express her sympathy, and that’s how they will reconnect. And they will ditch Leo and Lucia in a heartbeat, because they had their fun, and the vaction is over and they are already thinking about going back. And they will go back together, because it will be a cute story, and Albie went to Standford, and Portia is not actually poor and will be a hit, in fact already is a hit, with the family. (Unless Lucia or Leo murder one or both of them).
I would bet money on that. If there’s one theme to The White Lotus, it’s that rich people stick together. Class trumps everything else. The poor are just toys and temporary distractions. Albie’s going to discard Lucia, like Tanya discarded Belinda. Albie and Portia are going to reconcile, just as Olivia and Paula, Rachel and Shane, Mark and Nicole reconciled, because they are of the same class, and birds of a feather flock together. Comedies are about a shake-up of the status quo but usually end in restoration. And this is the kind of comedy that makes us feel how that’s not really a happy ending at all.
I do wonder who will get the actual grace note this time around. Last time we had the youngest son, who found himself/a new lease on life/community with nature and with the locals, who stays behind to join the Haiwan paddlers. This time I somehow can’t spot any candidate for genuine personal growth yet. (I kinda wish it for Harper. Maybe she doesn’t reconcile. Maybe she actually gets to leave).
I think Lucia could be enough of a broken bird for Albie. If he means what he says, being w/a sex worker wouldn’t be much of an issue for him. But, it’s big if.
Sure, he might genuinely believe that of himself. I could see him being very convincing next episode. Lucia has to have some plausible hope for the drama to work..
He might even stand by her at first, when the connection to his dad becomes apparent. He probably does want to see himself as the sort of person who doesn’t mind. But he’ll jump at the first pretexte to ditch her. As I said, I think ultimately the poor-thing is more disqualifying than the sex worker thing. They don’t run in the same circles.
Are we meant to see Portia as wealthy though? Obviously she must have more money than Lucia, but I’m really unclear on that–and certainly I don’t assume she’s rich on the level of these other characters (for one thing they emphasize over and over how much she does need the work…)
Maybe not rich, or as rich as the other rich characters, but certainly not poor. She’s got a job, sure, but a sort of job you probably need connections for – I don’t think Tanya would have posted that job on Craigslist and hired someone from the street. Portia also knows a lot of gossip about Tanya, seems like her parents or friends know Tanya socially. Portia’s a glorified babysitter, and babysitters are often recruited among friends’ or friends’ of friends’ and neighbours’ kids. Portia went to college (she’s tired of discourse, but clearly familiar with it) and now she’s doing the sort of job to tide you over while you are still finding your way. She can afford a period of aimlessness. She needs the job to feel financially indepedent from her parents, but if she didn’t have it, she wouldn’t exactly starve.
OK, I’ll buy all of those points. 😛 I still don’t see it as quite “She’s in the same social circle as Albie and so his family would welcome her into the family, unlike a poorer character” but I do get where you’re coming from.
Maybe not exactly the same social circle, but the discrepancy is just smaller, more bridgeable. To be fair, it’s probably not entirely about money per se – the college education, the fact that they’re both from the US. Just a better “culture fit”. And Albie certainly cares about that. The way he sometimes talks, it does seem performative – we do get an idea of the kind of person he would want to impress. Portia doesn’t particularly engage, because she’s in fun vacation mode, but I think we can assume that she could if needed. Lucia couldn’t. There is no doubt for me that Portia would play better with the family (and probably also most of Albie’s friends) than Lucia.
Tanya barking orders at Portia (such as go be in the bathroom) should tell you how much money Portia has. She’s not on a vacation, she’s w0rking.
Is Lucia charging Albie? I couldnt tell if she was “working” when she went down on him or if she was doing it for herself. The latter seems rather unlikely, but they never really made it clear, did they? I mean – do Albie and Portia even know that Lucia is a prostitute?
Pretty sure she’s going to ask for her money and his nice guy facade will crumble when he realises it wasn’t his “charm” that got him blown
I think based on Lucia’s speech to Mia earlier in the day, she’s definitely not charging Albie. I think she’s trying something new.
I don’t think she charged him. She’s playing the long game here, going for the high risk/high reward strategy of potentially becoming his girlfriend and being brought home to the US instead of a one or two immediately recompensated one-night assignments. Her main motivation is probably still somewhat transactional – she see him as her ticket out of Italy. But she’s ready to provide the full girlfriend experience.
Then again, maybe I’m being too cynical. In this episode Lucia has expressed a lot of doubts and misgivings about her profession, and maybe she just wanted to do something purely for fun, to escape that unloved identity for a brief moment at least. You could also make an argument that she must be genuinely into Albie, and enjoy the flirtation just for what it is, because the plan I just outlined above is extremly unrealistic, especially considering that Lucia knows she slept with his dad, and so far we haven’t been given any reason to believe that Lucia would be naive enough to think that wouldn’t be an issue. She would have to be extremly confident in her sexual allure to think pure passion could overcome that sort of complication.
Personally I think it’s a bit of column A and column B – she probably does see the flirtation with Albie as a bit of a break from sex work, but his appeal is likely greatly enhanced by daydreaming about longterm material benefits potentially gained from the association, even if she might not entertain this ideas very consciously because on some level she knows it’s not terribly realistic and she’s setting herself up for disappointment.
With White Lotus properties occupying the extreme luxury rung of the resort ladder, it seems odd to tolerate obvious hookers racing about the hallways…lurking in the bar/restaurant…busting into rooms…hooking up with multiple guests. I mean, this is a prestige accommodation. I know that whenever we’ve stayed at any resort, you kind of keep your eyes open to the others…you fabricate little backstories about fellow guests…you talk about them in the course of your stay – people would notice! This is not an airport Ramada Inn – it’s a 5 star property and I know I’d be severely bumped to know that I’m paying top dollar to stay at a place with whores trolling every facet of the resort. I’d love to read the TripAdvisor feedback for White Lotus Sicily – “Loved the setting, the rooms are spectacular, excellent restaurant, but the obvious prostitutes roaming about the grounds does give it a slightly skeezy vibe”. It just seems unfathomable for a luxe place…even if Dom provided the front desk with a heads up that his “friends” might be cumming and going.
every luxe place has sex workers lol, and with your views on what a sex worker is I’m not surprised that you never noticed.
I doubt the guests would notice, as long as the girls dressed correctly.
How many prostitutes do you see at every casino on the Vegas strip? Lots and those are expensive places.
Dom got Lucia and Mia registered as guests so Valentina’s hand were tied.
You’re as out of touch with the reality of the things going on around you as Harper is.
“I know I’d be severely bumped to know that I’m paying top dollar to stay at a place with whores trolling every facet of the resort” damn, ugliest sentence I’ve read today
Who do you suppose are the primary clientele of sex workers?
do you think Lucia went into the bathroom with Albie’s load in her mouth and she then spits it into a turkey baster, and inserts it inside of herself so she can get pregnant and leave Scicily?
Why would she want to leave Sicily?
She’s stated that she wants to go to LA.
Theory: Ethan is gay. That’s why he won’t have sex with Harper and it plays into why he didn’t have sex with Mia. Cameron knows something about this and has kept it secret, that’s why Ethan doesn’t tell Harper about Cameron and Lucia, he’s afraid Cameron will tell Harper he’s Gay. it also explains Cameron’s homoerotic pillow talk.
I dunno about that. We’ve seen his porn preference, haha.
I am really liking this show so much better on the second season. These characters seem to have a little more humanity to them. Last season it felt like most of them were Camerons.I love Valentina and don’t want her to lose her job and humiliate herself.
Line of the episode – ‘four for dinner’
It is very interesting the way the series uses traditional saint iconography and Italian paintings within the narration. Manuel has mentioned San Sebastian, but I also noticed Saint Lucy (Lucia!), christian martyr of Syracuse, traditionally shown holding a small plate with her own eyes on it (wonders of catholic iconography 😬). It’s a shame I cannot find a screenshot of the scene, but it’s something similar to the picture below
“We should talk about the homoerotic bedroom talk between Ethan and
Cameron (“I want to be inside you”) after they wake up from their
debauchery-filled night, right?”
I mean it wasn’t really bedroom talk between the two characters, it was just Cameron. Initially, I thought maybe there was something to his interactions with Ethan, but now it seems to me just to be a kinda typical alpha-jerk power play.
At last we get to the good stuff…The two are described as “besties” in college. Cameron was very very free with his kisses and Ethan was extremely chill putting up with the kisses and then declining the seduction – so chill that it didn’t seem as if any boundaries had been crossed or any reason for embarrassment. I know we live in an enlightened time where these sort of interactions have become normalized, but two separate gay/queer storylines? I’m a big believer of foreshadowing – that within the time cofines everything has to have a purpose. e I think we haven’t seen the last of whatever these two besties have going on.And what was the deal with the bizarre scene with Hunter and all the men in Noto? Granted she was looking smoking hot, but was that reality or Harper’s self a conscious imagination at work? So many different forms of male sexuality on display all over the Sandbox.
“And what was the deal with the bizarre scene with Hunter and all the men in Noto? Granted she was looking smoking hot, but was that reality or Harper’s self a conscious imagination at work?”
I rewatched that scene and I think it was meant to be somewhat her POV as she was stoned on edibles. I say somewhat because, well, as my sister has said about her first time in Italy in her 20s the men there do make women feel like that. But if you notice, when Daphne is in the store and Harper is alone, suddenly EVERYONE else around her are male. When Daphne comes back out, it goes back to being a much more expected mix of men and women.
So frustrating to see Harper not mention the condom wrapper. i know people like that, who avoid conflict, but it’s annoying to see that on TV.
Portia dresses like a 9 year old in a 1996 episode of Barney. Look it up.
The character that makes zero sense to me is Albie. He grew up with wealth in Los Angeles with a father in the film industry, he attended an elite college, he works (presumably unpaid) at a prestigious urban design firm, he’s drop-dead good looking and we’re supposed to believe he’s some wide-eyed innocent? Wouldn’t he be a much more worldly character?
The cast of this show is truly top notch. Simona Tabasco deserves to be a household name after this.
The main takeaway I got from this episode is that Ethan is a REALLY good liar.
This episode really made me hate Portia which I suppose was kind of the point, but I truly do understand why she suddenly decided to be so casually cruel to Albie (other that he’s a softboy and she wanted a hardboy?). Like could have just had an honest conversation at least