The White Lotus stalls by focusing on the stagnant Mossbacher marriage in “Mysterious Monkeys”
Chaos agent Armond raises questions about whether the White Lotus will pay enough attention to its staff
TV Reviews The White Lotus
In another place, can you become another person? The American vernacular has an array of phrases that purposefully point out the difference between who we are before we go on a trip, who we are during, and who we are after. “Beach body,” as if our physical appearance is some kind of measure of our value. “Whatever happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas,” as if our actions can ever be divorced from ourselves. And so far The White Lotus has played with these different transformative possibilities: Tanya, who hopes Hawaii can heal her grief; Shane and Rachel, who are starting their lives together now as a married unit; Mark, who thought that his non-cancer health results meant a fresh start. In “Mysterious Monkeys,” we see how false those expectations were as these characters seem more stuck—and more disconnected—than ever. Steve Zahn hooting and crawling toward his wife in some kind of animalistic display of sexual viability: Sir, what?
But there’s also a narrative imbalance in this episode, in particular with how we explore the lives of Armond and Belinda, that makes me wonder whether The White Lotus will, in its remaining three episodes, deliberately and purposefully spend as much time with the resort staff as it does with its guests. I don’t mean to flatten a classist critique here and say that the series should make the working-class Armond and Belinda heroes and the wealthy guests villains. To Mike White’s credit, the show is doing a fair job already showing how selfish some of these people are (cough, Shane) as a result of their wealth, and how vulnerable some of these people are (cough, Tanya) in spite of it.
My point more so is that the show has now positioned Armond and Shane as equal chaos agents, meeting each other tit for tat, and also configured Armond as an antagonist toward Olivia and Paula, who want their drugs back and who are increasingly disbelieving of Armond’s insistence that they haven’t been found. All we definitively know about Armond, though, is that he’s worked at the White Lotus for a while, was five years sober, and is gay. Is that enough to stand up to all the narrative twisting and turning the show is doing around him? Murray Bartlett is certainly chameleon-like, and that comes through in both his hitting-on-unsuspecting-guys scenes: during his cocksure confidence with Zahn’s Mark, in which his winking innuendo is mostly amusing, and then in that blunt proposition of employee Dillon (Lukas Gage), which is predatory from top to bottom. And sure, it’s enjoyable to watch someone finally be a thorn in the side of these (mostly) intolerable, spoiled people. But I wonder if the story can sustain Armond’s villainy long term, especially when the character’s slide into addiction and manic behavior is ultimately self-destructive. (Is it “gaslighting,” as Shane insists? I’m going to go with … no.)
So all that is a bit of a flaw in “Mysterious Monkeys,” as is what feels like repetition in Mark’s progression. On the one hand, Zahn is the guy to dig into the radical honesty that Mark’s character now adopts after learning about his father’s double life. He can say the most non sequitur lines with unexpected solemnity (“Leprosy is no joke”) and can self-effacingly, cluelessly ramble on without any sense of how self-involved he’s really being (“Just hold my nose and, like, suck it down as fast as I can, so I don’t gag,” when describing sex with wife Nicole). On the other hand, the destruction of Mark’s personal identity as a result of the reveal of his father’s sexual orientation, and his cynical belief that life is just one slog during which we are “driven by base instincts to create these hierarchies and hump each other,” seems like The White Lotus attempting to mirror Mark with his daughter Olivia, and present two different angles of a certain kind of privileged, naval-gazing worldview.
Olivia makes these grand critical assessments of everything and everyone, including her parents, but has no personality of her own outside of that dislike. Nu-Mark mimics her with his “honest” assessment of the world around him and his admittance that he’s basically checked out of his marriage, but has no personality of his own outside of that dislike. And although Nicole is very clearly an aggressive helicopter parent (that speech about her straight white son being a victim of sex shaming!), her character lacks a bit of dynamism, too. Overall, the Mossbacher-marriage stuff feels slightly stagnant three episodes in, and neither Connie Britton’s expectedly fabulous hair nor Zahn’s gameness has yet enlivened it.
“Mysterious Monkeys” begins with a secret: Paula has been hooking up with resort employee Kai, who Olivia saw her eyeing up at dinner, and Paula has been lying about it. (Again, my old ass asks: Are Paula and Olivia a couple and this is romantic jealousy, or are we dealing with a codependent-best-friends situation?) There’s an uncomfortable vibe all throughout the resort that morning: Olivia’s mistrust when she realizes Paula isn’t telling her the truth about Kai, Quinn’s anger when he wakes up to find that the ocean drenched his phone and tablet, Rachel’s exasperated look when Shane initiates morning sex. You know a few days into a vacation, when you’re tired, sunburnt, and running out of clean clothes, and you begin wondering when you can go home? Suddenly the guests we’re following at the White Lotus are in that headspace, although they’re in one of the most beautiful places in the world and are being waited on hand and foot. Must be nice!
We see that tension build in nearly every character pairing. Shane, ignoring that Rachel is still smarting over his dismissal of her career and more irritated that his new wife thinks he isn’t romantic, for some reason turns to Armond for advice, as if he hasn’t been putting forth very discernibly hostile vibes toward Armond this whole time. Armond, seizing the opportunity to screw over Shane, pairs them up on the same boat with Tanya, who has decided tonight is the night to spread her mother’s ashes in the water. Meanwhile, Tanya asks Belinda to accompany her, and I can’t quite tell if Tanya knows that her offer of funding Belinda’s wellness center has basically ensnared the White Lotus spa manager, but Jennifer Coolidge excels at the pregnant pause. If she waits just a little bit—just long enough to make the other person uncomfortable—chances are they’ll do what she wants. And so Belinda joins Tanya, who probably assumes that this ritual will be like her poolside dream: celebratory, freeing, tranquil.
In reality, it is agonizing from the moment that Tanya, in her Stevie Nicks mourning outfit, proclaims “I don’t want tonight to be a downer.” After that, the night falls off a cliff into Downerville, with Shane and Rachel increasingly panicking as Tanya tries to make small talk during dinner and then draws them into the ash-scattering ceremony, during which she unwittingly describes the overlaps she and her mother clearly share (“She took her money and she manipulated people with it”). And while Coolidge is delightful at chewing through this dialogue for maximum “Oh jeez, I’m so on edge I have to laugh or I’ll explode” effect, I also felt deeply for this character, for her brokenness, and for how enthralled she is by the specter of her mother’s expectations, judgments, and cruelties. She’s frozen by her mother’s death, but she was also frozen by her life. How does Tanya move on?
The same question applies to the Mossbacher children, I think. To Olivia, who stands a little too long and a little too obviously in front of Paula and Kai as they have sex (would a fancy resort really be so abandoned in the middle of the night? I am not rich, I do not know), and whose stride away from that scene suggests a very bad reaction indeed. How does she progress past what she clearly sees as a profound betrayal? And to Quinn, whose passionate insistence that he receive a replacement phone and tablet for the ones destroyed during his night on the beach results in him borrowing his parents’ phones, and then throwing one of them into the sand when porn fails to hold his interest. (Does the fact that it’s porn involving women have anything to do with his apathy?) If the only thing that is keeping Quinn interested in the world around him are its natural wonders—the whales, the waves—then maybe it’s worth asking how the teen moves on from his listlessness and, possibly, his depression. If you can become another person in another place, who will Quinn become?
Stray observations
- I really could not have guessed that Jake Lacy would be so good at playing an unrepentant asshole, but his line deliveries of “I can’t wait to fuck in Tahiti” and “People have been coming for me my whole life” are pitch-perfect in terms of hate-ability. This man is really going to accuse Armond of gaslighting when he basically lied to Rachel’s face about flirting with Olivia and Paula? Come on, man.
- Where might you recognize Lukas Gage from? Possibly Euphoria, American Vandal, or that viral clip of a director criticizing his apartment during a streaming audition and not being particularly thoughtful with his phrasing of “poor people.”
- “That fucking place exploits you, Mom.” Belinda’s son sounds right!
- The neoliberalism of “Your generation’s only sacred value, biting the hand that feeds you” is a lot.
- Kudos to Sydney Sweeney for delivering both “Maybe he was just too embarrassed to ask Grandma to use a dildo on him” and “He could have still been butch, Dad” with a perfectly straight face. Get this woman on Saturday Night Live!
- Please give Jennifer Coolidge an award for the highly affected way Tanya took those tiny sips of champagne on the boat.
- Books this week: Olivia and Paula are reading Camille Paglia’s critical work Sexual Personae and Frantz Fanon’s classic The Wretched of the Earth; Rachel is reading Elena Ferrante’s My Brilliant Friend (also an HBO series!); and Shane is reading Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking by Malcolm Gladwell, which…sounds apt for that character.
- Every episode of every TV show ever made should include Steve Zahn making a fart noise.
110 Comments
As someone in recovery for drugs I don’t think Armond is a villain. Often substances can get you the same thing that you want sober in an unhealthy way, whether it’s communicating what you want, making space for yourself, being seen, etc. He’s just exercising what little agency he has with these awful guests and is using substances to do it because it seemed like his last option. But then it also ends up hurting people like his employee when the substances spew over into what should be healthy relationships.
*also to answer one of your questions, I stayed at one of the Hawaii four seasons and they really are abandoned in the evening!
Yeah he’s absolutely not the villain. What he did to that employee while drunk was harassment, but this guy gets treated like a peon by rich assholes every day. It’s a miracle he stayed sober so long. So often the working class has to be made to look like saints in order to paint them as good guys. This show wants viewers to understand that somebody having problems doesn’t make them less worthy of respect. The rich teen girls get to do drugs with no consequences, even though the parents are vaguely aware of it. It’s only going to affect Armand so negatively because he’s working class.
Well, and because he’s an addict.
I agree—and of course the way he hit on his subordinate was harasment but honestly, after what and how Mark asked him I didn’t think his response (to Mark) was really all that inappropriate…
This is not a criticism of the writer, she has written an accurate overview of the episode. But what is missing is the tone in how all the scenes unfolded. It began almost like a hangover with each scene interspersed with shots of a resort setting up for another day in “paradise” and maintained that completely through Tanya’s stuporific state (Coolidge is tremendous here, going all in complete with the closeups of her face.) Coupled with Mark’s inebriation, the languorous pacing only amplified the hilarity and “neediness” of a group of characters so self-involved the only proper response is to laugh and cringe……..repeatedly. This is not going to be everyone’s cup of tea. The “why would I spend an hour with such terrible people?” argument. Frankly, I think such cringe comedy/drama is hard to get right (SUCCESSION being the high bar at present) and this series is doing a great job trying to get there.
In some ways I think it’s doing it even better. The guests are so filled with hypocrisy’s that it’s maddening for the staff, but also the show isn’t bothering to point the fingers at them because there’s no where’s to really point the finger.
I decided to try to get into the spirit of the show and I enjoyed this episode more than the previous two. I still am annoyed with the bombastic jungle score, which reminds me of the Seinfeld eps where the regular musical soundtrack was heightened with human voices. With this series, the soundtrack conveyed its intent—the zoological study of the rich—fairly early on, so no need to lay it on thick as they have been doing. Maybe I just don’t like excess human noise-making as music.Regardless, this episode conveyed more empathy for its characters. I felt for Mark, despite never experiencing that situation. It wasn’t homophobia as his daughter thought but just not knowing his beloved dad. (And the girls scored a point in their favor for their “no big deal” reaction to the news.) That mirrored Tanya’s scars from her actively destructive mom. That scene on the boat was wrenching. Rachel recognized its power but couldn’t speak to her selfish husband about it. Any other newlyweds, who had a happy marriage, would see the experience as a gift, a reminder of gratitude to how fortunate they were with a loving partner and a call to seize the day. As for Tanya, she’s so grief-stricken and unhappy that the first episode’s dead person in the crate could be her suicide. Or it could be Armond. His plight is also sympathetic.I now assume Olivia and Paula are lovers and Olivia hasn’t come out to her parents. Mark thinking Quinn was gay is the misdirect.So far, the show is less upstairs-downstairs critique of class differences in late-stage capitalism and more human drama about unhappy people in a lovely location. This episode did a good thing by showing the unhappiness of the awful characters a bit more so they’re humanized.
I don’t think Olivia and Paula are lovers. I think it’s a co-dependent friendship, but Olivia has secret feelings for Paula nonetheless.As far as the dead person goes, some have suggested that the opening credits provide a clue.
Previous two episodes? so the episode i watched last night was only the second? Am i missing an episode somewhere?
It was the third. Unless you’re watching further episodes on HBO Max. But on regular HBO, they’ve aired three episodes so far.
I’m watching each episode on HBO Max the day after they air on regular HBO, and to my knowledge HBO Max doesn’t have all episodes available to watch. You gotta wait each week just as you do on regular HBO.
On HBO Max as well. Just three so far.
this is my fault. i keep looking for the new episodes on the day they premiere but BEFORE the time they premiere, 10pm. by that time i’m usually into another show so i watch the new HBO series episodes on monday or tuesday
Definitely the weakest outing so far for the series, but not bad enough that it can’t reach new heights next week. At this point I only wish we knew a bit more about Olivia’s relationship with Paula, especially in the case of the latter as she’s a bit like Rachel—dragged along on this vacation by her wealthy peers. (In that respect, it makes sense that she’s hooking up with a member of the staff, given the show’s focus on class stratification). But Olivia’s motivations are totally opaque. We get the sense she might be romantically attracted to Paula, but as you point out, it could be codependency. That feels like crucial information in order to understand the characters. I got quite bored of Mark’s drunk antics, and even though Zahn’s line readings alone can put a smile on my face, his arc didn’t go anywhere and the show could have stopped focusing on him after his interaction with Rachel (gloriously unhinged though it was). As for Quinn, he’s coming across as the most blameless of the family, retreating into his technology in order to avoid the cavalcade of horrors that is his immediate family. He deserves better than being relegated to jerking off on the beach. As for Shane and Rachel, dear God, I pray she dips out of her marriage by the time this is all over. No one should have to endure a man like Shane. I was hoping the boat ride would be much worse for him. I envisioned him being covered in human ashes as he opened the box, and said, “Aw damn it,” out loud when that didn’t happen.
I think Olivia and Paula’s friendship is both codependent and a matter of one-sided feelings on Olivia’s side. In the first episode, Olivia left Paula alone so she could go try and talk to the busboy, yet Olivia is upset that Paula followed through on it, suggesting that Paula hadn’t followed through before with guys she’s had a thing for. So it’s throwing Olivia out of a loop.
Do we know that Paula isn’t wealthy? I honestly don’t remember if they’ve told us anything like that. She seems like she comes from the same world as Olivia, attitude-wise.
As satisfying as ashes in Shawn’s face would have been, that trope has been done a few too many times now. I was surprised but also glad they didn’t go that route.
Yeah I was halfway expecting the boat scene to play out with the romantic dinner for Shane and Rachel to go surprisingly well until ashes abruptly blew into Shane’s face while they were eating, but I’m also glad they didn’t go that route. There’s no reason to do the “human ashes blowing all over someone” gag for comedic effect since The Big Lebowski moment just can’t be topped.
Mark’s talking reminds me of my dad. Get him talking and he won’t stop. Quinn is creepy and probably forced into it because of his family. When he comes back and Mark is talking to Rachel, he stares at her intensely and she feels uneasy and covers up. He probably has a thing for Paula, but with the sister as a gatekeeper and constantly shitting on him, he is probably going to go full incel.
I’m pretty sure they are going completely the other way with Quinn but I suppose you could be right.
My bet re: Olivia & Paula is that they recently had a drunken/drugged out hookup that Olivia feels a lot more strongly about than Paula.
“I pray she dips out of her marriage by the time this is all over.”Do you remember the first five minutes of episode 1? If not, you may want to rewatch – it’s kind of the point of the entire series.
I don’t think that Olivia and Paula are lovers, just that Olivia has a thing for Paula.
Or that she is envious that Paula gets a hot guy and she doesn’t. From the rather aggressively casual way she talks with her father about gay sex she may have sampled the waters herself, but she could also be feeling resentful of someone else “taking” her friend away.
Or, possibly, Paula is her only friend. Can’t lose her for a whole vacation to some busboy. So, naturally, she’ll try to bang the busboy as well.Anyway, limited series, so I’m not wasting the next several years on something that sucks so bad. I have not seen this episode yet, but I’ll watch it with my wife later tonight.
It feels like their queer coding Olivia, though. Her suggestion of the potential interpretation of her dad’s reaction to his dad’s double life, her flirtatious ASMR with Paula, her reaction to seeing Rachel in the white bikini which was a stronger reaction than Paula’s.
I can see that, but I don’t see a reason for the show to hold back any longer as some “big reveal.” Do women ogle other women like that? I mean, she should have been ogling her face before seeing her bod. Those eyes….On a tangent: Also, it’s possible that Plop’s wife leaves early, he gets it on with Stiffler’s Mom, they get married, then she dies.
Once again, this show takes place only over the course of a week so nothing has to be revealed right away. I think it’s less about Olivia being gay and more about having a thing for Paula which Olivia is reluctant to share. Obviously, the reveal of Olivia being gay would come with the reveal of potential feelings.And obviously Plop won’t be getting it on with Stifler’s Mom.
Oh thank you so much for calling him Plop. That’s all I’ve been doing.
I dunno–the “queer coding” in this case just seemed to be the way I’ve seen people behave who are a bit too happy to be woke to gay causes (she actually reminds me of a woman I would talk to a bit in one of my classes who would lecture me on what depictions of gay men in the media I should take offense at… But, at least at the time, she was actually straight)
but…. it’s only 6 episodes what are you talking about “several years”, also…. just because you don’t like something doesn’t make it bad. Considering the only other thing you said was trying to predict that the girls friendship isn’t sexual and then you suggested that Olivia should fuck that busboy? That suggests that you might be a homophobe…. so fuck you.
The look on Olivia’s face when she saw Rachel disrobe and saw her body was the first clue that she’s into women.
Do you think we’ll get an encounter between Rachel and Olivia? I mean, Rachel currently thinks Olivia is a bitch, but considering both Rachel’s marriage to Shane and Olivia’s friendship with Paula are going into the toilet and that Rachel’s opinion of Nicole seems to be trending toward Olivia’s, there’s an arguable basis for them to bond a little bit more. Of course, if that encounter is consummated into sex, that sex will most likely be implied. And it would be convenient if Rachel revealed that she’s bisexual.
Please, please don’t let the sex be merely “implied.”
I find it very hard to care about Olivia at all. She seems to be a massive c*nt and I guess they’re trying to explain why she’s that way but ugh. No thanks. She’s not an anti-hero she’s just a c*nt.
I’m enjoying this a lot. I usually don’t go in for the idea of a character “you love to hate”, but Jake Lacy’s Shane is so GD punchable.My one complaint is that the Mossbacher’s lack of boundaries and shamelessness regarding conversation topics with each other is kind of hard to take. I get that that’s the joke, but I think it would work better if they were trying to maintain some of the norms of polite conversation and failing rather than just not trying at all.
Another HBO show that I cannot decide if I like or not but I watching despite by profound trauma induced hatred for spoiled rich assholes. The music is a bit loud and annoying.
We think it’s fine but keep watching to hear Jennifer Coolidge do line readings. Anxiously awaiting the arrival of Molly Shannon.
“the highly affected way Tanya took those tiny sips of champagne on the boat.”I wanted to reach through the tv screen and punch her.
I can barely handle the dread of the inevitable moment when Belinda realizes Tanya is either completely full of shit or just flakey and insincere about funding her business.
happened in last night’s episode
Hey, watch it buddy
I was a little tipsy while watching the episode, so I have great admiration for Steve Zahn’s ability to play drunk without being a cliched drunk.
if this shows main “story” is how Rachel gets murdered, as the first scene of the shows seems to be implying, and all other plotlines are leading to that event this episode did a bad job of setting that up. Except for Shane proving what an asshole he is over and over but he’s not Rachel’s killer so I don’t know what was accomplished here.
Rachel isn’t gonna die. It’s gonna be someone else.
The woman in the airport waiting room mentioned that “someone was killed” at the resort, so it wasn’t explicit yet that it’s murder. Maybe someone is found floating in the pool.
Rachel isn’t gonna die. Um… Why, exactly, would Shane be so affected if it was anyone else besides Rachel?
Hell, he only seems to care about her as an extension of himself, as it is – his “hot wife.”
*Is* he that affected by the dead body? He was okay to casually mention that they were loading the dead body on their plane, which suggests the dead body isn’t the bigger issue for him. He’s more bothered by the fact that his wife isn’t with him and the reason she’s not with him is because she left him. If the dead body belonged to his wife, he wouldn’t want to talk about the dead body, either. There’s a slight shift in his tone between talking about the dead body to talking about his wife’s whereabouts.
*Is* he that affected by the dead body? Seems to be; we get multiple shots of him staring forlornly at the shipping container. Again, thus far, this guy has been presented as one of the most self-absorbed douchebags on a show that’s chocked full of them. It’s highly unlikely that he would give a damn that anyone else had died. I do agree that I don’t think the death was intentional. He’s acting pissy because she left himIt read as more than a little bit ‘pissy,’ which we’ve seen Shane be ever since he first showed up on screen. There’s no way an HBO limited series is revealing the actual victim in the opening scenes of the first episode.Just like there was ‘no way’ they’d ever kill off the leading actor in the first season of Game of Thrones?Mkay, if you say so.Personally, I’d love to be wrong – it would be much more satisfying if turned out that Rachel finally grew a spine and left Shane before their honeymoon was even over – but unfortunately, I don’t think that’s what the writers have in mind.
My guess is that Rachel leaves Shane, and the dead body is his mother, who is going to show up in the next episode. That would be the only other character whose death could affect him like that.
the dead body is his mother, who is going to show up in the next episode. That’s a reasonable guess; Shane seems like the kind of manchild who would promptly call for his mommy when things didn’t go exactly his way… even while on his freakin’ honeymoon. Also, look at the descriptions for the remaining episodesI tend not to base my own assessments on such circumstantial things. Guess we’ll see once the series is over.
“Shane seems like the kind of manchild who would promptly call for his mommy when things didn’t go exactly his way”. Not only does he “seem” that way, he has been shown to be that kind of manchild early into the show.
He could very well feel forlorn about other issues while looking at the box. Let’s not forget the possibility that his wife could have left around the same time that person died, which means that the dead person reminds him of his wife leaving him. As I said, the dead body doesn’t bother him as much as his wife’s whereabouts.
Also, look at the descriptions for the remaining episodes, particularly the finale: “Rachel (Alexandra Daddario) shares some harsh truths with Shane (Jake Lacy) and confides in Belinda (Natasha Rothwell), who’s reeling from bad news of her own.” If that doesn’t suggest that Rachel grows a spine, I don’t know what does.
He’s acting pissy because she left him, which they’ve been setting up for, uh, every episode now. There’s no way an HBO limited series is revealing the actual victim in the opening scenes of the first episode.
Well…we know Shane’s mom is going to be a character on the show soon. He would probably be affected if something were to happen to her; he is obviously co-dependent on her in an unhealthy way.
Shane’s mom then? or is his being annoyed in the first scene while talking about the coffin a red herring and that he’s really mad about Rachel leaving him?
The trailer shows Shane’s mom showing up so its most likely her.
I would venture to say there’s no way Rachel is in that coffin, and I suspect that the death was not a murder either, even though the line in the first scene of the premiere was “Our guide told us someone was killed there.”
“was killed” is also what you would say if someone died from a falling safe, too.
I feel like I should watch that airport scene again. My memory is that he looks kind of shell-shocked, so when that couple started being all aggressively friendly with him and he reacted that way, it made sense that the person who died was his loved one. But now I don’t know. Maybe he was just plain angry and not grieving. It could be anyone in that coffin.The more I watch the show the more I like it. It’s like nothing is going on but there’s A LOT going on. If that makes sense.
From what we now know of Shane, he was very likely pissed and humiliated in that scene. It’s probably worth a rewatch to look at his face when he sees the coffin being loaded onto the plane. I didn’t pay close enough attention.
Someone suggested that Rachel gets the gumption to leave Shane when she finds the opportunity to write an exposé on the White Lotus and certain guests. The flip side of course is that she could be perceived as an opportunist like Nicole.
as of last night’s episode i no loner believe it’s Rachel in the coffin. Wondering who though? Paula? Olivia? Quinn or the dad while scuba diving? Jennifer Coolidge?
My guesses in order of intuition:1) The guy Tanya’s fucking2) Quinn3) Armond4) Olivia5) Mark6) Tanya7) Dillon8) Rachel
Right now I’m leaning more towards either Armond via overdose or Mark via drunken scuba accident.
OMG I feel like Peter Griffin:FINALLY!!!!!
I think that’s a misdirect. Nobody said it’s Rachel’s body. I think it seems more likely that they split up and that’s why Shane is alone/pissy in that scene.
Are we supposed to take the fact that Connie Britton is the CFO of basically Google, but doesn’t book a suite with multiple rooms for her multiple children as proof that she’s a bad parent? Or is it just a somewhat lazy story choice used to create drama? It really bugs me!!
The room drama is really unrealistic and kind of pointless at this point. Unless it ends up with Quinn being killed by a whale.
The room they chose is functionally useless for their needs – a massive living room, but only one bedroom for five people. There’s no way they would have chosen that and her supposed level of success makes it ring all the more phony.
I thought where the girls were sleeping was the living room, as it’s where we’ve seen the family be in most of the time. But Nicole (Britton) mentioned it was the girls’ huge bedroom. I’m not buying these people booking a room with not enough bedrooms either.
Nicole said “You won’t share a giant room with your brother” but never bedroom—since the kitchen is off it, and given the set up (the sofa bed, etc) I still assume it’s the living room of the suite. Which, yeah, is kinda weird.
Yeah, I stayed at a very nice resort/hotel in Hawaii with some friends about 5 years ago (they rented it and asked if I wanted to come and stay for free; they are well off but definitely not CEOs of a global search engine company) and even their suite had 2 bedrooms (1 master and 1 with 2 double beds). I’m guessing that the family from White Lotus could have gotten a suite with at least more than one bedroom or, barring that, some adjoining rooms.
You don’t prioritize a kitchen (which few people on a vacation will ever actually use) over another bedroom if you’re a party of five.
It drives me crazy. The show—and this review—want us to believe these are rich people staying in a “fancy” resort. Would a fancy resort have one bitter dude running everything like it was a Disney hotel in Florida? Would a chief of whatever get a one-bedroom suite for her whole fucking family? Would a rich young couple honeymoon at such a basic-b*tch place? No, no, no.
I was with you till your last comment–even if it wasn’t the Pineapple Suite, I thought the honeymooning couple’s set up seem… pretty nice? I mean I know Shane’s meant to be well off and I admit I haven’t stayed in many fancy resorts, but…
To be fair, it’s a nice suite, yes. And they are basic bitches (based on the comments, I appear to be the sole person here who thinks she’s more insufferable than him). But the whole vibe is like … dream vacation for empty nesters? Young, rich, NYC-based newlyweds aren’t going to the family friendly place in Hawaii that looks like a Hilton. Or at least they aren’t in my deranged mind, but then you wouldn’t have a show. That said, I’d be fine if the show was just Jennifer Coolidge and Natasha Rothwell, but again, no doubt in the minority here.
Thanks for explaining that–and I definitely see your point. One thing though–it was booked by his mother, right? Maybe it will be come more clear when we see her (next week?) but I can totally see her picking it out, basically saying to Shane “Look how beautiful this is and you’ll get the pineapple room” and, from what I take at this point about his relationship with his mom (which isn’t much) him just going with it.
Molly Shannon could tell me to stay at a Motel 6 in rural Wisconsin and I would do it.
This place is over 100 grand to stay at right now.
Yeah, it’s a Four Seasons in Maui. Rooms are 10k a night. I’m not saying it isn’t expensive, I’m saying it’s not where those characters would stay.
I dunno, I felt like Episode 2 was really light on incident and this was a big step in the right direction.
Honestly, I don’t remember anything from Episode 2 except Armond finding the backpack of drugs, which didn’t pay off until this one.
this was a really tense episode, and the stakes are high in the sense that we all can relate in these small but defining moments in our lives.
I don’t think Shawn is being gaslit. I think Shawn thinks he knows what gaslighting is.
(Again, my old ass asks: Are Paula and Olivia a couple and this is romantic jealousy, or are we dealing with a codependent-best-friends situation?)
It can be both. And it could be that only Olivia feels they’re a couple while Paula is more affected by the dependency to the Olivia’s parents and sees the friendship more like a “queer” experience.The White Lotus has interesting cast and ideas but it’s now the third episode and nothing happened which I’ve seen not coming. I watch it for Murray Bartlett and of course I expected something with the much younger Dillon from their first scene on. Gays and drug abuse is also a common stereotype – no surprise. Of course daddy Mossbacher has a midlife crisis with a gay dad. Homer Simpson was already there.
Something doesn’t ring true about Rachel’s being worried that Shane was so “horned up” for her and jumping straight to the “entire marriage being based on sex” for him. Aren’t honeymooners expected to go at it like rabbits—“we went halfway around the world and never saw the outside of the hotel room,” and all that? I get that their relationship is being portrayed as being rushed mostly by his doing, but there’s all these things that she should have thought about before now that she apparently hasn’t. She doesn’t seem to be in it for the money or the sex, and so far they’ve shown basically zero chemistry together, so why did she marry this guy?
This is a good point. My take on Rachel thus far is that she’s confident about her looks (see the way she uses her body to shut up Olivia and Paula), but terribly insecure about herself otherwise. It seems to me like she started dating Shane for physical reasons and just got caught up in the momentum of it, and now that they’re married, the reality and permanence of their relationship is dawning on her.On the one hand, she’s clearly nervous about him losing interest in her, based on her jealous reaction to his flirtation with Paula and Olivia and her anxiety about whether he will always be “horned up” for her. (His reaction to her question about whether he’d always be sexually interested in her—that his sexual interest would never fade, rather than emphasizing some non-physical attributes that he loves about her—was telling about how he sees the relationship.) But on the other, she’s also pretty clearly contemptuous of his entitlement and pettiness, and contempt is a pretty strong indicator of a relationship’s imminent collapse. I think she’s set up as a foil for Shane, where both are childish in their own way. In contrast to Shane’s entitlement and his focus on the physicality of their relationship, she is naive and unwilling to advocate for herself.To me, Rachel feels like she’s trapped, but she really isn’t. All she has to do is speak up for herself.
“All she has to do is speak up for herself.” I feel like that’s not easy. Women especially jump into unsuitable relationships and even marriages all the time. I don’t hold it against her, I feel sad for her.
It was implied in the scene with the college girls and Daddario that she might somewhat be in it due to his penis size as she summerizes how fast the timeline of the relationship is with a “it just…. felt right”. To which Olivia immediately changes her mind about his dick size. I don’t also think we’re supposed to see Daddario as a flawless character. She’s basically an A.V. Club write copying and pasting “news” from The Guardian and shit. I feel like this relationship is more her fault than we’re given the impression of. He is totally the villain or the relationship but I don’t think she just stumbled into this either. She’s vapid.
Shane has probably been accused of gaslighting at some point in his life but has no idea what it is. It makes sense that a spoiled person would adopt the terminology of the abused/oppressed.Tanya is such a great character. A victim and victimizer all in one (can’t help but wonder if her own mother was the same). Belinda seems aware that Tanya is unaware of the power of her throwaway offer of support but I’m excited to see what she’s willing to do to make it happen. Also, is Nicole in trouble? Her board doesn’t know she’s on vacation? Something is up. Finally, is Armond the body on the plane? Does Shane win their head-to-head in the end?
Yes, I thought Shane claiming ‘gaslighting’ was pretty hilarious since he still doesn’t know what it means.
Why would they fly Armond off the island? He seems like a local.
“Finally, is Armond the body on the plane? Does Shane win their head-to-head in the end?”
I wondered about that too–but would his body be immediately shipped back with the American tourists? (I know that’s me assuming a lot about who’s on the plane and where it’s going but I would assume he either has lived in Maui long enough that the body would stay there or it would go back to Australia–but maybe I’m just assuming that because I’ve seen Murray Bartlett in a lot of things over the years ever since his time on Guiding Light and have never heard him play someone with his natural Aussie accent before.)
I’m not rich either, but stayed in a fairly nice resort on Kauai a few year ago (Sheraton) and it really was quiet and abandoned feeling at night, except at the pool.
Something is definitely up with lady mossbacher. She tells Rachel in Episode two that her staff knows she’s on vacay but tells Olivia and Paula she doesnt want her staff to know she’s on vacation? Maybe trouble that hints as to why they have an inadequate room for 5 people. I think Olivia has deep feelings for Paula and simply feels betrayed. Imagine being a teenager (at least emotionally) and your best friend is keeping a secret from you, and you know they are repeatedly lying to you about it. This would be a huge deal to her especially since Paula is basically her guest. I think Rachel will leave Shane before the end of the trip, there will be a huge rift between Nicole and mark, and Jennifer Coolidge will end up in the coffin. I’m disappointed they never revisited the employee who had the baby in episode one. I was really rooting for her.
“All we definitively know about Armond, though, is that he’s worked at the
White Lotus for a while, was five years sober, and is gay. Is that
enough to stand up to all the narrative twisting and turning the show is
doing around him?”
Obviously your mileage may vary, but I don’t feel like I really need to know more than what we do know to feel I basically understand his character…
Seriously. Backstory doesn’t make a character, but rather a good actor and good writing that shows the character behaving in a real and consistent way. And while this show does have a satirical tone, for the most part it’s nailing that.
Completely agreed. AVClub’s reviews of serialized TV often annoy me with similar complaints about not knowing enough about a character’s history (and oh no we’re half way through the series) etc. It’s not like we know *all that much more* about the other characters than we do about Armond. It’s obviously intentional with the writing–and works for me.
yeah i don’t feel like it’s missing anything at all, the performance is so good you see the backstory in it.
I also think him feeling bad about missing Lani’s pregnancy and URGENTLY sending her flowers were important.
Yeah I don’t need some big backstory about his first drink all I really need to know is that he’s 5 years sober and he found the girls drug bag.
I just love the ambiguity of everything in this show. It generates so much conversation when we’re watching! I just love that it’s funny, different and somehow so much and so little seems to happen at the same time.
Omg I hate Olivia
I thought the show’s point was to be murder mystery (a la “Clue”). The first five minutes of Episosde 1 established that.I think.
I REALLY think Quinn is on the autism spectrum, which led me to have an uneasy feeling about “ If the only thing that is keeping Quinn interested in the world around him are its natural wonders—the whales, the waves—then maybe it’s worth asking how the teen moves on from his listlessness and, possibly, his depression.”
Olivia’s awful, but I think she’s right here. And Nicole is exactly the type of parent who would deny this and not hear of it being true for her child. He really reminds me of my sibling on the spectrum and frankly, it’s nice to see a portrayal that’s subtler instead of cartoonish.
Yep, three episodes in and this looks like yet another overrated HBO ego project. Usually it’s the name actor who gets to produce , direct, write, or adapt a piece, and trashes virtually every accepted practice of writing a cohesive story, so this one’s a little different, but similar result. Great casting and talent is saving this, but no one is in position to tell the head honcho “no” when something is seriously off or landing flat in the writing. Things like: A relatively weak story and no plot. (Stretching a two episode story to seven) The ultra-wealthy CEO accommodations with no bedrooms for the family.The overly descriptive gay-male sex and penis jokes constantly coming out of the mouths of 19 year-old girls. He really struggles to write for non-male characters, and leans too heavily on gay sex jokes that really aren’t that funny – just blunt or crass for crass’ sake.Interminably long scenes with Jennifer Coolidge that fall flat time after time. I know some her fans think her stuporous act is hysterical, but if it wasn’t “Jennifer Coolidge” even they would be tired of them.Writing Shane to be an unredeemable asshole (which he probably is) but writing situations to indict the guy WHEN HE ISN’T WRONG, and he actually behaved pretty admirably. The hotel double booked and incorrectly billed him (mom) for what would likely be tens of thousands of dollars more for a week in the wrong suite there. That place is CRAZY expensive like six figures for a week at that level. But then writing this idiotic scene where suddenly he splashes some teenage girls in front of his wife. WTH?
Trashing convention, like foreshadowing: Allude to dad drinking too much on an empty stomach before scuba lessons – then NOTHING happens. Drunken Dad flirts and hits on women all day – and NOTHING happens. Talk about a critical Zoom meeting and rearrange furniture in a nonsensical panic -and nothing happens, except to have a character collapse on the floor – and STILL nothing happens.An interminable boat storyline resulting in virtually nothing – like they ad-libbed some shit with a cameraman on board.
It’s not good, but the massive bulk of being an HBO production will shield it from criticism. Like most of these productions, I bought in and now I’ll see it through just because.
Is your life so boring that you need to be offended by non-deliberately offensive stuff you see on scripted television?
Are you so fucking anti-social that you show up a year later to write personal attacks on a media review site? About a TV show? You’re the fucking joke. Couldn’t write an original thought. Go find a party to be avoided at. And make sure your mom leaves the basement door unlocked so you can be back in your room by 10PM.
Instead of writing a novel about a thing you don’t enjoy (This TV show) you should go outside or do something you do enjoy. What’s that? What you enjoy is swimming in your misery and being cranky? Well you fucking suck then.
It’s funny how they cast Sydney Sweeney to be so agog at the body of Alexandra Daddario when she is absolutely smoking in that department herself. Also weird, since she acts below her real age, how like two years ago she was cast as a young virginal 15-ish year-old bride in Handmaid’s Tale.