Bill Maher out here talking shit about Stan Lee fans, which, actually, yeah, that tracks
Aux Features AuxDetermined, as ever, to speak truth to (elaborate, uncomfortable shrugging gesture), HBO talk show host/occasional HR bullet point Bill Maher wrote an editorial this weekend going after those who have well and truly destroyed American society: fans of the late Stan Lee. And while we might suggest that “less than a week after a beloved creator’s death” might not be the best time to run a blog post about how people who loved him are all immature dumb-dumbs who indirectly contributed to the election of a monster, Maher would presumably remind us (possibly using some sort of folksy idiom that may or may not also include a racial slur) that that’s Old Rules thinking, baby.
No, Maher is pretty sure that Lee—and through him, the wider culture of adult Americans enjoying comic books and graphic novels, the perverts—is responsible for all sorts of bad stuff, like Donald Trump being elected president, college, and the general collapse of American society.
I’m not saying we’ve necessarily gotten stupider. The average Joe is smarter in a lot of ways than he was in, say, the 1940s, when a big night out was a Three Stooges short and a Carmen Miranda musical. The problem is, we’re using our smarts on stupid stuff. I don’t think it’s a huge stretch to suggest that Donald Trump could only get elected in a country that thinks comic books are important.
Why can’t we all be more mature, Maher seems to be asking, instead of immersing ourselves in these puerile, adolescent fantasies that promote regressive views and a general abnegation of adult responsibility? Why can’t we all hang out in bastions of adult sophistication and non-arrested development, instead, like the various Playboy events Maher has waxed intellectual at over the years?
Comics internet culture has, of course, already taken notice of (and umbrage at) Maher’s words, launching a measured response that will in no way go about inadvertently proving any of his shitty, myopic, culturally gatekeeping points. Really, it’s enough to outline the real tragedy here: The realization that if he’d been born in the right era, and surrounded by the right people, Bill Maher would have made a truly amazing obnoxious comic book fan himself.
Excelsior!
258 Comments
Ah yes the cranky old man conclusion. – I don’t like comic books and never have = people who like them are stupid because I’m smarter than everyone else.He might be a little smarter than Trump, which isn’t saying much, but they’re both the same breed of asshole.
He’s a LOT smarter than Trump. But that’s still not saying much.
Yeah, also I guess some weeks just don’t have enough hate, so glad they’re both willing to step up.
I think it’s fair to say that Maher’s smug “I got mine” libertarianism is why we have Trump as president. Not that Maher has any actual influence, simply that a lot of people think like him.
A lot of young people think comic books are dumb too. Most fans of the Marvel movies also think comic books are dumb and have never opened one. They just like the movies.
How about the cranky young generalizer?
You know, I’m starting to think this guy is pretty in love with the sound of his own voice.
At this point, he and his voice got married, bought a house in the suburbs and have about five kids.
Really? He seems so humble
Maher’s thoughts upon hearing of Stan Lee’s death:“How can I use this to draw attention to myself”
*Maher looks at Armie Hammer’s tweet*“Hold my beer.”
At least Armie Hammer was grasping (poorly) at a well intentioned point; that people’s remembrances were more self serving, than eulogizing. Even if he did trip and fall face first when making it, he was aiming for better for Stan. Maher is just being mean and cantankerous.
that’s not an iota different from all the people “mourning” him or tweeting how awful it was, etc… Literally everyone commenting on it was looking for attention for themselves.
Disagree.
If everyone else is giving tributes to the deceased, and you follow suit, you’re just a voice in a chorus.In order to really stand out you have to be a dick.
so basically if they’re saying something you don’t want to hear, they’re looking for attention. Otherwise it’s all genuine.lol
Yes, much like you
Disagree.
If everyone else is giving tributes to the deceased, and you follow suit, you’re just a voice in a chorus.In order to really stand out you have to be a dick.
I’m glad you shared how you feel. It’s important to share our feelings, especially when we feel mad. What do you do with the mad you feel? You can yell into a pillow, run around outside, or post comments on the internet. These are all things we can do with the mad we feel that don’t hurt anybody.
lol
Not to be outpaced by the Republican governor who believes all TV shows are about zombies, Maher had to muster the worst possible take at the worst possible time. I’m almost impressed that he managed it.
Silly governor. All video games are about zombies. There are some TV shows that don’t have zombies. Then again, I could have been wrong. I could have missed the episode of Better Call Saul that had Jimmy using his lawyer skills to convince a zombie to settle for going for his leg instead of his brain.
Yes, Stan Lee was totally responsible for the current state of America today. He never wrote things like:“Let’s lay it right on the line. Bigotry and racism are among the deadliest social ills plaguing the world today. But, unlike a team of costumed super-villains, they can’t be halted with a punch in the snoot, or a zap from a ray gun. The only way to destroy them is to expose them—to reveal them for the insidious evils they really are.”Or something like this:“America is made of different races and different religions, but we’re all co-travelers on the spaceship Earth and must respect and help each other along the way.”Or, I don’t know, something like this:“A… definition of a hero is someone who is concerned about other people’s well-being, and will go out of his or her way to help them—even if there is no chance of a reward. That person who helps others simply because it should or must be done, and because it is the right thing to do, is indeed without a doubt, a real superhero.”Man, I can’t believe Stan Lee never said any of those things. What a dick, am I right?(Oh, by the way: that racism quote? Was written and published in 1968. So fuck you, Bill Maher.)
On the other hand:“Work in the fields? Senator, I’m a house n——-!” – Bill Maher in 2017
Yeah, the oddest part of this is that Stan was such a force for progressivism way, way before it was cool.
Mr. Maher, your response?
[Cue supercut of Maher espousing Islamophobia and bantering trans-bashing with Milo Yiannopolous]
I don’t doubt said supercut could be longer and with more in it, those were just the two biggest examples coming to mind.
beautiful
How dare Bill Maher not give Jack Kirby co-credit for destroying society.
I bet Stan Lee fucked Maher’s wife too.
#SteveDitkoToo
This comment made my day. Thank you
Well, since Jack Kirby is God, I guess since Maher’s the douchey kind of Atheist he doesn’t believe Jack Kirby exists.
I for one think we should let the keeper of what is or isn’t adult be the 60-something year old, who can’t go five minutes without cracking jokes about smoking weed like a 14 year old edgelord.
What a boring argument, comics – an expression of creative, commerical artistry and storytelling are immature embarrassments while, say, spending $300,000 on a needlessly powerful car to tour it 40 km/hr through wealthy suburbs with greco roman style 2006 mansions rip-offs on the way to the baseball game with Michael Moore and Salman Rushdie is an incredibly sophisticated hobby.
That picture just gave me smug-induced diabetes.
Oh my god, I started reading his blog post and, holy crap, what a complete fucking douchebag. Seriously, this is how he begins his post:The guy who created Spider-Man and the Hulk has died, and America is in mourning. Deep, deep mourning for a man who inspired millions to, I don’t know, watch a movie, I guess. Someone on Reddit posted, “I’m so incredibly grateful I lived in a world that included Stan Lee.” Personally, I’m grateful I lived in a world that included oxygen and trees, but to each his own.Does…does Bill Maher know what fucking empathy is? Does he realize that even though he wasn’t affected by certain things, other people were? He does know that reading can fundamentally change a person’s worldview, right?And then he goes: But then twenty years or so ago, something happenedOh no, “twenty years ago” something happened! And Stan Lee is to blame! Despite the fact that Stan Lee wrote comics in the 1960s and ‘70s! Which was more than twenty years ago!I don’t know if Bill Maher is just being obtuse and wants to blame comics for all of society’s ills (go join Fredrick Wertham in the corner then, Bill) or if he’s just that stupid, but his entire blog post is like reading a screed from your racist uncle about how “everything was better in the ‘50s” because there wasn’t any internet or gay people or whatever.
Deep, deep mourning for a man who inspired millions to, I don’t know, watch a movie, I guess.
Sounds like Bill Maher’s writing his own eulogy here…
That’s one offensive picture.
See if the cast of BBT all died in some giant freak accident and Bill Mahler wanted to point to them as a source of dumbing-down America I’d find myself reluctantly nodding agreement.
Sure, but if only BBT were the biggest source of dumbing down America, I would celebrate.
I once saw an episode of Maher’s old show Politically Incorrect where we was complaining about some teacher who’d won an Educator of the Year award from some organization. I forget exactly what the teacher had done to get the award but the gist of it was that they’d devised some educational plan that made kids want to learn by making it fun, and the idea of learning being fun incensed Maher on some level that started out sounding like the way you hear people rail against participation trophies and the concept of safe spaces – “School is supposed to be hard! We’re supposed to be praparing kids for life! Life doesn’t make hard things fun! Why can’t this be the ONE PLACE we don’t coddle kids!?” – and spent a while seeming like Maher simply didn’t understand the concept that education might be more effective if kids actually paid attention before landing solidly on the realization that Bill Maher didn’t enjoy school and therefore Bill Maher was infuriated by the idea that ANYONE might enjoy school. It’s like he sees joy a zero sum game, and someone being happy when he isn’t means they’re actively trying to make him less happy, and someone liking something he doesn’t – i.e., being happy for reasons that couldn’t make him happy – means they’re cheating to do it.
“Why can’t this be the ONE PLACE we don’t coddle kids!?” — I hear this and I now feel slightly concerned that at some point in his life, not even necessarily on record, Maher has tried to make the sincere, non-comedic argument that more parents should be beating their children.
And get off my lawn!
He wishes. When Maher passes away, thousands will shrug and say “oh, ok”
Well, not any movie he was actually in.
It is a pretty scathing comment from someone who will be remembered for *checks notes* hosting a talk show.
It is a pretty scathing comment from someone who will be remembered for *checks notes* hosting a talk show forgotten.
Point taken, he didn’t even get a Koopa named after him, which is the only reason anyone remembers Morton Downey Jr.
“I’m grateful I lived in a world that included oxygen”What is that even supposed to mean? He’s glad to live in a world that contains something that allowed life to exist? If our atmosphere didn’t contain oxygen, wouldn’t life have just evolved to breathe something else? Okay, I didn’t do all that well in biology class so I don’t know if oxygen breathing life forms are vastly superior to a theoretical life form that breathes some other theoretical gas. I guess my point is that Maher is an appendix. (I’d call him an asshole, but an asshole is a useful body part)
He’s secretly jealous of all the Space Gorillas who breathe chlorine, hence the hyping up of oxygen.
If Maher is writing in California, he can be forgiven for thinking an atmosphere with breathable oxygen is past-tense.
Okay, now I’m just sad.coughcough
He is saying what all narcissistic assholes say, which is, “You care more about this thing than I do, so you are stupid.” Fuck him with a crooked broomstick.
pretty sure there’s a bunch of critters at the bottom of the ocean (including some crabs) that do a handy job of proving your point since they live in the vicinity of volcanic plumes & breathe a gas that would kill us stone dead…
Your final 2 sentences are more brilliant than anything Maher has ever uttered. Bravo.
That last quote gets even stupider: But then twenty years or so ago, something happened – adults decided they didn’t have to give up kid stuff. And so they pretended comic books were actually sophisticated literature.Yes, Bill, that’s what happened. It’s all been a big sham all these decades. Or…perhaps, just perhaps, those adults grew up and not only reappraised those old comic books for the contributions they made in graphic design and storytelling, but they also became comic book writers and artists themselves as well.This rant is another version of the same old argument that comes around anytime there’s a big shift in art and media: rock and roll is uncultured and oversexed trash, television is lowest-common-denominator pablum, etc. Hey, Bill, crack open Art Spiegelman’s Maus and tell me that comic books are all kiddie stuff.
“Hey, Bill, crack open Art Spiegelman’s Maus and tell me that comic books are all kitty* stuff.”
I honestly think this concept of “grow up and stop looking at that kiddie shit” is reinforced in our society because it aids capitalism. The idea is for young people to join the work force and start spending money as soon as possible. And what will they spend it on once they’ve stopped being into kids’ stuff? How about houses and cars and jet skis. Big ticket items that often need loans and incur debt and keep people desperate to stay employed no matter what the job (or work conditions). Now, I have nothing against cars or jet skis, and houses are obviously important, but compare that to, say, a video game console. That’ll cost a couple of hundred bucks. A new game is maybe $80 (I’m using Australian prices here) and might keep your interest for a couple of months before you want to buy another one. Most people aren’t going to need a loan to make that kind of purchase. It’s something worth thinking about the next time you read a story about young adults being in arrested adolescence because they buy comic books, or millenials “killing” some industry that involves spending a lot of money. They want us to buy the right kind – the expensive kind – of things.
“I honestly think this concept of “grow up and stop looking at that kiddie shit” is reinforced in our society because it aids capitalism.”Some would argue that older people looking at/doing things adolescents do rather than “grown up stuff” is the epitome of capitalism, because it means you spend all your free time and earnings consuming things rather than saving up for family needs/retirement.
Thank you. I think this is the best way to put it.
Immaturity and arrested development equates to a principled stance against capitalism?You know what, I’m 100% on board with that notion. Good work!**I know it’s hard to tell on the internet, but I’m being 100% sincere/unironic.
Then again, Maus is a comic book with talking, anthropomorphic animals.**On surface level.
I’m guessing what bill took from the maus thing was the pulitzer crowd specifying that prose offerings getting shown up by a comic book set a worrying precedent that “justified” explicitly taking them out of the running in future…which may (just possibly) be why it’s the only one ever to win that particular accolade…but since being in possession of one’s own functional critical faculties would seem to render mr. maher largely redundant in the first place I’ve seldom found him difficult to ignore, personally speaking…
Are they pretending it’s sophisticated literature or are they just enjoying their time on this crazy ball of wax we call Earth? Bill Maher, stick to what you do best – making television I won’t ever watch and that one movie you made about how dumb something is or something.
Let’s not gloss over his claim that we’re in deep, deep mourning over the loss of Stan Lee. I’m not sure taking 2 minutes to crap out an “RIP Stan Lee 😥” is playing ball with a North Korean funeral procession.
Also, it’s not like the deaths of beloved children’s entertainers like Jim Henson and Fred Rogers aren’t mourned as well. Why wouldn’t they be?
Fred Rogers > Jim Henson > Stan Lee in terms of the quality of humanistic values they championed. I’m sorry but Stan Lee was a pop artist and not much more. A good one, but what did he really contribute? Many things can be true at once. Bill Maher is not being inaccurate.
Considering that in the last 20 years we’ve elected a black president, allowed gay people to serve openly in the military, and legalized gay marriage throughout the country, I don’t think his point holds up.
And pot! Pot is legal!
Douchebags everywhere object to your slurring of them.And there’s no way BM (and how appropriate THOSE initials are, as randomly happens!) writes ANY of his own material.
I suspect all Maher wanted was to shit on someone more popular than him and remind the world he exists.
Comic book writer Scott Snyder’s response was my favorite so far…Lol. #billmaher Just upset because nobody will mourn him when he dies.— Scott Snyder (@Ssnyder1835) November 17, 2018
Nathan Rabin’s is my favourite:Nathin Rabin @nathanrabinIt’s crazy to me that Bill Maher is using Stan Lee’s death to insult the maturity of comic-book fans. It’s crazily out of character for him to assert his intellectual superiority over the ignorant masses in a shrill, strident, obnoxious and attention-seeking way.2:51 PM – Nov 17, 2018
I’m in deep, deep mourning for the death of trees and oxygen. I can be sad about more than one thing at once, Bill.
Obviously Bill is such an old man that he’s remembering the 1940s and 50s when COMIC BOOKS WERE EVIL AND LEAD TO THE DOWNFALL OF AMERICA’S YOUTH!!!https://slate.com/culture/2008/04/the-campaign-against-comic-books.htmlAnd for the record, I’ve always thought that Bill was a Arschloch of the highest order.
Bill Maher is a patronizing dick by design. He thinks he’s edgy and tells the truth. He’s not even funny while doing it. He tries way too hard to fail at something that Jon Stewart makes look easy. Maher is a mediocre comedian who lucked into one good idea (a forum talk-show with guests way more intelligent than he is) and he’s been milking it for decades.
But then twenty years or so ago, something happenedActually, I think it was 25 years ago when it all went to shit.
I know I’m supposed to be mad, but I just find this shit exhausting. This is two of world’s oldest, laziest hot takes “this ‘low’ culture medium is for idiots/this politician I don’t like’s existence can be easily explained by this other, unrelated ting I don’t like” smashed together for clickbait. There’s plenty to get people upset about here (as was, I’m sure, the primary point), but a more subtle aspect is that these low effort cliches that have been applied to movies, television, magazines, novels, prose, literacy and every president since Adams are being passed off as a defense of intellectualism.
No he’s just that stupid. The kind of stupid that thinks it’s a genius, and thinks he’s doing all of us stupids a solid by telling us so.
Does he understand that it’s possible to be grateful for Stan Lee AND oxygen?
Are we doing “it can be two things” around here anymore?
does Bill Maher know what fucking empathy is? I’m sure someone must have used it in his presence at one point.
i guess you didnt know what a complete utter fucking misogynistic self centered coke snorting deranged piece of shit this prick isand i could care less about Stan Lee
The straight up blinkered, ill informed, smug in this is ridiculous.
Stan Lee. Who spent his entire career pushing progressive ideals through his work. Is some how responsible for Donald Trump because [joke about nerds in basements]?What the ever loving fuck.
He also seems to have missed that the alt right fucking hates Marvel. Because of all those progressive ideals that are burned into it.
“for a man who inspired millions to, I don’t know, watch a movie”Is ‘with great power comes great responsibility’ not a good inspiration now? Yeah, it’s cliche… now. A long with all the other shit Lee pulsed into pop-culture. Cliche BECAUSE it got so wide spread, so long ago.
Maher is just running his shtick, trying to be insensitive, in order to create outrage, in order to create some more relevance for his flagging, pathetic career. His M.O. is why he holds such high regard for Ann Coulter, (I had to type in “annoying conservative bitch with a huge Adam’s apple” into a search engine to remember her name, BTW.)
I think Maher has just always mad because he didn’t get to be Howard Stern.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Maher thinks the 70s was 20 years ago. Like when he was in his 20s. There is a certain kind of person uses “20 years ago” to mean “when I was a young adult.” Maher kind of personifies that. (To be fair I’m shocked that people who where born the year I started college aren’t young children, but like adults who are my colleagues and just “a little younger” than I am.)
The only time he has empathy is when his hooker runs out of cocaine. That man is a human shit stain.
Empathy has bounds. We are all entitled to weigh in on what other people are freaking out about. Don’t forget it was Simon Pegg himself who said the same thing about the dangers of infantilization.
And why would the calamity Stan Lee supposedly wrought take precisely 20 (or 40, or even 50) years to erupt? Why aren’t comic book readers also responsible for Barack Obama’s two terms as President?
Dude sucks. Doesn’t merit much more than that.
“haha, got em!” – Bill Maher to himself in his head about totes decimating them nerds with his wit.
Yeah, The Avengers are definitely the reason we have Donald Trump in the White House right now. It definitely has nothing to do with the media largely turning politics into entertainment, and fostering an ecosystem where people feel that they have to belong to a tribe, be it Democrat or Republican, or Libertarian which are really just Republicans who realize that it’s uncool to say they’re a Republican. I can tell you that giving racist trolls like Ann Coulter air time because “That’s good TV” had absolutely nothing to do with normalizing the idea of a racist President. And having somebody who brands himself as liberal on most issues, casually mentioning that Islam really is a force of evil in no way shape or form normalizes intolerance. No, the real problem is Doctor Strange. The best way to reach through to conservatives is to create a documentary where you ambush the religious, joke that they’re stupid, and call it a day. But the X-Men? Well that’s a bridge too far. Keep in mind, no other culture has ever taken an egotistical monster who appealed to their ethnocentrism, and placed them into power before the creation of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Not once. Look it up for yourself.
Kang would say that clickbait articles like this one, that manufacture reasons for a bunch of otherwise nice people to immolate each other on the internet over fucking minutiae— have a lot more to do with how Trump got elected.
How are we immolating each other in this article? Seems like most people here are in the “God Bill Mahers is a huge cock” camp
Don’t blame me; I voted for Kodos…
I was thinking the same as I read comments. People get so bent out of shape over nothing.I like Bill Maher and watch Real Time weekly. I don’t agree with everything he says and that’s ok. It’s actually good to have different opinions. Do I agree with his opinion of Stan Lee fans? Nope. Am I still a fan? Yep. So it goes.
I mean, given that we’re on a web site that has actually blamed South Park for Trump being President, it’s kind of rich for them to criticize Maher for that comment.
But at the height of its popularity South Park did an entire episode where voting is equated to a choice between a “Giant Douche” or a “Turd Sandwich” and Stan is treated as a martyr because he decides not to vote.
Yeah, it’s hyperbole to suggest that South Park is literally the reason that Trump got elected but there’s an argument to be made that South Park did – to some degree – influence voter apathy among the younger end of Gen X and Millenials.
Maher on the other hand, is making claims with no factual basis.
“Giant Douche” or a “Turd Sandwich” and StanYes. Most people felt this way. South Park in this sense was simply showing how society felt about those too. Voter turnout, especially among minorities, should provide enough evidence of that.is treated as a martyr because he decides not to vote.Colin Kaepernick, an outspoken non-voter, is considered a social hero in many circles. Perhaps he is the reason Trump is President.Maher on the other hand, is making claims with no factual basis.Meh. There is “no factual basis” to claim that South Park is responsible for the 2016 election in any way either. There is no “on the other hand” here. This site has no room to criticize such comments.
Colin Kaepernick, an outspoken non-voter, is considered a social hero in many circles. Perhaps he is the reason Trump is President. I’ve not seen anyone celebrate Colin Kaepernick for being a non-voter.
Meh. You not liking them does not mean there is no factual basis.
Nope. You got to have actual facts to back up an assertion and “Books with pictures are for children. Comic books have pictures and are therefore for children. Adults who read comics are dumb. Trump voters are also dumb. Trump voters read comics. Comics are why Trump was elected president;” Is not based in fact.
Statistically, the average adult who reads comic books is somewhere between the ages of 18 to 35, while the average Trump voter was 45+. There’s no correlation between reading comic books and voting for Trump.
Statistically, Bill Maher (a 60-something, financially well off, white man) is the average Trump voter.
I’ve not seen anyone celebrate Colin Kaepernick for being a non-voter.I’ve not seen anyone celebrate a cartoon character named Stan Marsh for being a non-voter. Can you show me the articles or the human beings that turned him into a “martyr” for being a non-voter so you can factually back up your claim?See how that works ;)Not sure what your second part is. My comment says: “Meh. There is “no factual basis” to claim that South Park is responsible for the 2016 election in any way either. There is no “on the other hand” here. This site has no room to criticize such comments.”
I’d argue that Maher’s persistent post-9/11 Islsmophobic agenda has played a bigger role in propping up right-wing populists like Trump than any comic-books (and that includes even Frank Miller’s nutty right-wing stuff).
You are far too intelligent for a political discussion on the crappy new AV Club. These whiny old biddies can’t even figure out the whole point of Bill’s article was to rile up dorks.
Are there any statistics showing a decrease in youth voter turnout in the last 15 years?
Stan is treated as a martyr because he decides not to vote.To be fair; as a cartoon cut-out, they couldn’t appoint him as editor-in-chief at Splinter…
Let’s not forget blaming Jimmy Fallon for playing with Trump’s hair another reason Trump got elected. Because there’s no way his 20+ years of forcing himself into headlines or his having a successful TV series could have possibly mattered more than that.
I was thinking the same as I read comments. People get so bent out of shape over nothing.I like Bill Maher and watch Real Time weekly. I don’t agree with everything he says and that’s ok. It’s actually good to have different opinions. Do I agree with his opinion of Stan Lee fans? Nope. Am I still a fan? Yep.
we’re in a world now where two people can agree on nine topics, but as soon as they disagree on the next topic they become sworn enemies. It’s mental and emotional immaturity. They’re not capable of breaking bread with someone if that person isn’t 100% like them and in agreement on everything. That’s why so many people below 30 are alone, depressed and scared to be around people.
Is this post secretly about how nobody under 30 is willing to be friends with you?
You have it all figured out, don’t you?There’s no way people could dislike or hate Maher because he’s spent 25 years cultivating an ‘I’m an asshole and don’t care if you know it’ public image, shitting on what for many people is a deep, meaningful part of their lives, and here now is blaming an innocent— and beloved—man who /just/ died for the election of Our Dear Demagogue.It’s probably that people, who normally agree that Islam is to blame for terrorism and that vaccines are to be avoided, found out he said something something negative about Stan Lee and said, “I don’t care how much you shit all over everyone’s religion, which, to be clear, I think is a GOOD thing, he said one thing I simply disagree with, NOT think is perhaps one of the lowest, most disrespectful things a person can do!”
Howdy from Earth, Gnat.
Why?Why are you a fan of a blatantly Islamophobic supercillious misogynist who uses feminism as a cover for attacking brown people?
Yeah, it’s funny— Kang actually had made up his mind that Bill Maher was THE WORST because he had only heard about his questionable guests and dumber comments over the past few years. Then I actually sat down and watched ‘Real Time’ and… liked it. The interviews are good, the monologues are better than most talk shows’ and often pretty fucking funny. Is Bill Maher kind of an asshole who is occasionally infuriating? Oh dear me yes. But so the fuck what, he’s a comedian. And his comment on Stan Lee is EXCEPTIONALLY RICH considering what a huge Hef apologist he is. But articles like this are just an excuse to stoke the monetized outrage machine known as the internet.
It’s ridiculous to blame South Park for the election result, however, the show has a concertedly right-wing libertarian agenda. The creators have even described themselves as Republicans (albeit probably not of the Trump variety). By contrast, most Marvel comic-books tend, on balance, to push a subtly progressive agenda (in as much as an art-form that tends to celebrate super-powered vigilantes can), and I think it’s probably fair to say that Stan Lee was a liberal.
Hey you might want to dismiss GnatKingCole as he’s a troll.
off topic & all, but…thanks for the lift on the Watchmen-thing – I’m pretty comfortable with my gray status for the most part but I did appreciate it as I seem to have given an unhealthy amount of time to that article’s threads…also, I haven’t entirely got my head around the “following” of stuff in this ecosystem but your remarks are definitely on my shortlist when I get around to that sort of thing…
If we’re putting all cards on the table, I do feel inclined to point out the media doesn’t have to share the sole blame for the increased tribalism, though it does bear a lot of it.
If there’s anything remotely resembling justice in this world, Newt Gingrich will take his place in history as the figure within the Republican party responsible for their ‘Give no quarter, win at all costs, and if the choices are burn it to ash or have a Democrat fix a problem, BURN IT DOWN’ approach that has led us into the shitshow we’re dealing with now.
It has a hell of a lot more to repent for than Stan Lee and populist entertainment at large. And Bill Maher is on the front line for the side that did their most to reduce politics into content.
Hell, I’d argue Maher has done more damage in this game than Stan or any of his colleagues individually have.
Comics internet culture has, of course, already taken notice of (and umbrage at)
Maher’s words, launching a measured response that will in no way go
about inadvertently proving any of his shitty, myopic, culturally
gatekeeping points.
Yeah, there are no heroes in this fight.
Well, Stan Lee…
Meh.
The 1940’s? The Golden Age of Comics? That’s the comparison he’s making?
Bill Maher’s base- Baby Boomers who only think they’re liberals.
You’ve hit the nail on the head sir.
The two big comic companies are resolutely, extremely liberal. So, if comics had any influence on voting, they would have increased voter support for Clinton. The only stupid person here is Maher, a faux intellectual who supports the sexual objectification of women.
you know…you’re all right, jack…
It’s not comic books or Stan Lee, it’s consumer culture as a whole. Everything needs to be sold and the best way to sell something is to make it entertaining and not too hard to understand. Thus Trump. He entertains his base and, even if his ideas are both horrible and more feelings than ideas, he communicates them clearly. Without subtlety, exceptions or caveats. Bill Maher is not a good messenger and has zoomed in on a small part of the problem but he is not entirely wrong.
Except Bill Maher’s argument wasn’t about consumer culture. He was saying the problem is that adults aren’t giving up a medium meant for children. And he’s wrong on that point because he doesn’t give any consideration to the fact that the medium has grown up as well and is no longer meant only for children.
I watch his show fairly regularly because they frequently book interesting guests, but Maher is easily the worst part of his own show: he tells hacky political jokes and he often feels the need to derail conversation with his hot take. Example: Tim Gunn appeared on his show and was advocating for the high-fashion industry to start designing for the more realistic sizes of average Americans. Maher decides that he’s going to interrupt with some rant about the “real”problem: Americans are slobs and don’t dress nice enough anymore. And his arguments always tend to be exclusionary by nature: I’m right and you’re wrong.
I watched that episode and was fascinated by Gunn’s take on the topic, especially when he didn’t understand why the fashion world ignored plus size people, as he put it IIRC, “I’ve been involved in fashion my entire life, and believe me the industry never leaves money on the table.”
Oh sure, it only took nearly a hundred years for Stan Lee to ruin America. Bill Maher is a fucking jackass.
Your headline has 15 words and four commas. FOUR COMMAS. Here is your opening line:Determined, as ever, to speak truth to (elaborate, uncomfortable shrugging gesture), HBO talk showThis continues throughout your post. Are you unaware of what sentence structure is and how to use commas? Maybe one of your 11 editors on this web site could help you.Holy fuck.
Jesus Christ, kill yourself already. You’re such a whiny little shitbag.
nah, I’ll wait awhile. You should quit whining.
I thought AVClub had a shortage and that’s why they had to take the comma out of “Great Job, Internet!”
He’s saying he’s a manga man.
I hate Bill Maher. He’s a condescending douche bag who likes to play the more liberal than thou card while in the same breath spewing anti Muslim bigotry.
He doesn’t spew anti-Muslim bigotry. He points out, rightfully, that people continue to seem eager to ignore that in the Middle East there are still honor killings, record numbers of rape, pedophilia, etc… all in the name of religion.It’s like how the NBA pulls an event out of North Carolina for “human rights concerns” yet continues to ramp up business in China, a human rights hellhole on scales North Carolina couldn’t dream up.
Not nearly as eager as Maher stans are to explain how the racist/sexist/anti-Islam stuff he says is really just True.
I agree with his larger point that adults who read super hero comic show and get excited for transformer movies are a cancer. My dad’s generation was all married with kids and a career at 30. If a howdy doody movie came out , he wouldn’t get excited about it. Grown men shouldn’t have time for this shit.
It seems to me that unlike someone like Trump, who I think probably has some major self-esteem issues underneath all that pomposity, Maher really believes he’s just that awesome. His smugness has a certain casual, offhand quality that makes me think he really believes deep down that he’s the shit. Kinda like Ted Cruz, who doesn’t seem bothered by how much people hate him.
it’s not that complicated…in his head he’s jon stewart…
Genuinely, who cares?
I’m 50 years old, and I read comics, I color gruesome pictures for giggles, I watch the fuck out of Real Housewives. I read a shit ton of young adult novels.
I’m also a business owner, a liberal, a diverse reader, including I’m willing to bet more “SJW” non-fiction than most. I’m charitable, and I’m politically aware. The other day I drove past the neighbor dog, waved to her, and she lifted a paw … this is possibly the most delightful thing that’s ever happened to me.
I’d also remember having voted for Trump. I’m almost sure of it.
And I’m smart enough to know not to be so reductive.
Isn’t Maher a germ theory denier?
Oh, come on! I find it had to believe that Bill Maher would act like an intellectually lazy, smug asshole!
Completely out of character.
A guy who brags about his pot consumption like a he’s trying to get in with the cool kids, and who thinks marriage gives you cooties, shouldn’t be lecturing anyone on the maturity of their pursuits.
He is anti-Vax, and no one anti-Vax need talk about “dumb” unless it is to declare themselves as ultimately so. Only Flat-Earthers and Creationists are lower.Also, despite a huge platform, big salary and professional writing staff, he’s funny* about as often as Bob Hope was on his final USO tour.
*Hint: not very, and bloodlessly.
I’d say Maher directly contributed to it way more than Stan Lee indirectly contributed to it.
Bill Maher has the same understanding of maturity as Vincent Adultman. He should stop doing comedy and focus on business transactions.
“Take my credit card to the hedge fund! I’ll meet you at the martini store!”
Here’s the problem with Bill Maher: On one hand, Maher has a true gift for recognizing and scruitinizing received wisdom and truisms. For example, Maher (a fairly outspoken atheist) was one of the first puplic figures to point out that it was just a teensy bit hypocritical for Western liberals to scoff at Judeo-christian beliefs, while simultaneously treating Eastern religious beliefs as inherently endowed with wisdom and beyond criticism.It is the lot of such figures to attract controversy and invective. The main problem with Maher, however, is that he usually delivers his observations in such a way as to hand his critics ammunition. You just really hate to agree with the guy.Like right here, I see what the he is trying to say. It’s sort of weird how, over the past 30 years our culture has done a complete 180: Once, comic books were the epitome of childish trash (saying that an adult “still reads comic books” was essentially like calling them a simpleton or a nincompoop), Now, in many circles comics are unquestionably regarded as literature and fine art. Forget even questioning that last assumption. Heck, just stating, “Hey, I don’t really care for comics,” sets you up to be ridiculed as an elitist fuddy-duddy. Unfortunately, the tone Maher’s blog post goes a decent way towards confirming that stereotype. That’s too bad, because we could use a little more good, insightful, and irreverent criticism of pop culture these days. Particularly around here.
There’s a huge difference between saying “Hey, maybe comic books aren’t as great as everyone thinks” and saying “People loving comic books so much is the reason we have Trump as president”. Maher’s not critiquing pop culture, he’s crassly using a man’s recent death to make some assinine political burn.
To be fair, I do really wonder if there’s a problem with Western Civilization obsessing about escapism. Even though I do myself love science fiction and superheroes and was old enough to see Star Wars (1977) with my parents. I like science fiction and superheroes. That being said, I know that American cinema prior to 1977 (or maybe 1975 Jaws), was on a path where movies *meant* something about society and could maybe improve it.
Those movies still exist. Remember ‘Moonlight’ winning Best Picture at the Oscars?
They still exist, but they’ve definitely moved out of the mainstream. So much so that the academy is making all sort of clumsy attempts to create a “best picture among movies people actually watch” category.Also, if you went back even as far as the 80’s and looked at major studio releases, you would see a ton more films with no special effects, casts full of people mostly 30 and over, portraying people with real jobs like ones you might actually know. And the characters in the movies would spend about 80-90 percent of the run time having conversations. These weren’t “art films,” they were just entertainment.
so, sort of like a good chunk of the torrent of tv we produce these days…habits & viewing patterns have shifted over time but there’s so much more entertainment available these days that unless you conflate a shrinking proportion with a shrinking volume (that I don’t think reality supports) I don’t think that’s the sort of loss you seem to imply…
Before holding up the ‘70s as a more mature time, remember that people called it the Me Decade.
I really do think it goes in cycles. For example if you look at movies, there were the post WWII film noirs, the Vietnam & Watergate era “New Hollywood” films of the early to mid 70’s, the indie films of the 90’s. Then those movements peter out and you get periods dominated by spectacle, fantasy, and escapism.
Well I, if one were to say that Stan Lee is why Trump is president, that would definitely a stretch. On the other hand, it’s hard to deny that there are aspects about Trump’s persona and administration that seem more like something you’d find in a comic book than from most of our past Presidents.Does the popularity of comic books and superhero stories somehow make Trump’s administration seem less unusual or more palatable to people than it ordinarily would? Are the same tastes, attitudes, and social conditons among the general public that are responsible for the popularity of comics also partially responsible for the reemergence of populist nationalism as a driving force in American politics? Those would actually be interesting debated to have. I agree that Maher isn’t really going about starting them in the best way.
I get what you’re saying, I think…& Colbert’s “Our Cartoon President” seems to put you on relatively firm footing, at that…but as a particular brand of pedant I feel oddly bound to point out that (at least to me) the connotations of “cartoon” with all their exaggeration & lampoonery aren’t entirely the same as comic-as-in-book despite the whole comic-as-in-funny thing…so I think I see your point but I also see at least one way that folk who like to hang out in these parts might not…it may even be that the lack of understanding with Meh-er goes both ways but I guess I don’t feel like the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence in this particular case…[no offence intended…]
Thing is, the parts of him that feel like they’d be from a comic book are more in overtly villainous characters.
I’ve said it before, I will say it again – if Donald Trump has any comic book alter-ego, it’s Gary ‘The Smiler’ Callahan from Warren Ellis’s Transmetropolitan a – leering, rictus-grinning presidential hopeful (later winner) who…well…here’s some sampled lines:“I just wanted you to know, up close and personal – when I’m president, I’m going to make a point of taking some special time to fuck you to death. Nobody humiliates me the way you did. Nobody gets away with it!”“Okay, here’s another one then: I hate people more than anything and I’m going to be president. … I hate you all, you know. All you scum. I want to be president because I hate you. I want to fuck with you. I want to make you shut up and do things properly. Get through your doomed little lives quietly.”and
“I want to be president because I think I should be.”
Even if you want to run on the idea of ‘comics made that appealing’ (which is kind of a stretch) I’d argue that Trump more rode the general wave of casual nihilism that was going across culture in general for a while, particularly in the aughts. To dump that on comics is blaming a few trees for the whole forest.
Well, my problem with Maher is that he’s speaking from a place of profound ignorance and being condescending and smug about it. Kinda like another asshole who likes to make everything about himself.
People revered Stan Lee and the characters he (partly) created for a lot of reasons, but Maher doesn’t know that. And because he doesn’t know it, in his mind, it’s not worth knowing and is stupid.
In his mind comic books are childish. Rather than see the change in how we regard comic books and re-evaluate his opinion and seek out new knowledge, he gets judgmental and blames the rise of Trump on comic book fans.
In short, he’s a prick. He’s a prick who is occasionally right about stuff, but he’s mostly just a prick.
Bill talks about EVERYTHING from a place of extreme ignorance.That you notice it about this topic you know a bit about is good. Think about how he talks about this topic, and how uninformed he is. And when he talks about stuff you don’t know about, remember he’s as wrong about that stuff as he is about the stuff you know about.
I’ve never been much of a comics fan(even though I’m a longtime sci-fi nerd), but I don’t see anything inherently inferior about comics compared to other forms of art.
If “delivers his observations in such a way as to hand his critics ammunition” means exposing himself as the self-satisfied, racist, reactionary hypocritical twat that he is, then I agree. The trollish “way” he presents himself is just the whipped santorum on top of his shit sundae.p.s. This false idea that Western liberals believe Eastern religions are “inherently endowed with wisdom and beyond criticism” is a dog whistle on his part. If his target wasn’t the religion itself, but rather the minority of religionists (of all stripes) who weaponize their dogma to repress and create violennce, then he would have a point. But in the end he’d rather just sterotype and be a fear monger. Underneath all his intellectualized twaddle, he is just a run of the mill Islamaphobe.
Maher is too clever by half.He’s had some genuinely funny bits over the years — I remember his “Golden Goose Special” (something like that) being pretty good, but often as not he’s trying too hard to show up someone, even guests on his own show, and demonstrate how bloody clever he is.And because he usually hasn’t got the wit or skill to pull it off, let alone an ounce of tact or ability to read the room, he often just comes off like a smarmy thoughtless jerk.
Well, Simon Pegg got skewered for saying the same thing in a mindful, contextual manner. So there’s no safe place to suggest maybe turning off the goddamn TV and helping your kid do a little extra credit math might be a good thing. There is something to be said for how a nation spends its free time. The concept of binge watching, for example, is the Super Size Fries of our time. It’s more comfortable to be in the decline of a powerful, wealthy society for sure.
Forget even questioning that last assumption. Heck, just stating, “Hey, I don’t really care for comics,” sets you up to be ridiculed as an elitist fuddy-duddy. Unfortunately, the tone Maher’s blog post goes a decent way towards confirming that stereotype. That’s too bad, because we could use a little more good, insightful, and irreverent criticism of pop culture these days. Particularly around here.But “I don’t like it because it’s dumb and for kids” is literally the polar opposite of good, insightful and irreverent criticism of anything. The people who are mad at Maher are people who have worked hard to get actual comics criticism treated respectfully. They are people who have dug through these stories from all over the world, across time, and found them to be both inspiring and fascinating. Reducing the immensely complex artform of sequential visual poetry to “shitty superhero picture books for kids” is extremely offensive to anyone who has more than an actual child’s understanding of what comics book really are and what they can be.The fact that you think Maher is the one putting forth worthwhile criticism here only reveals how sadly ignorant you are. It also shows again just how grossly self-obsessed Americans are, believing that their comic book industry is THE definitive one and entirely ignoring the fact that places like Europe and Japan have been producing mature and deeply critical graphic novels for decades and decades. Even here in America there is a long history of transgressive underground comics, and even the earliest, most primitive ones are exponentially sharper and wittier than anything Maher has written in the entirety of Real Time. Honestly, when Maher talks shit about comics the way he does, he is talking shit about visual art as a whole, because every painting and picture is about storytelling – you just get one frame to do it instead of multiple. He is, unfortunately, far too stupid and arrogant to realize this. I’d suggest you do some actual research into the medium yourself because once you have, you’d hopefully realize what an absurd and childish take Maher has here. He’s an art snob who isn’t intelligent or educated enough to actually assess art in a meaningful way, so he just plays armchair critic and shits all over everything that doesn’t immediately appeal to him. It’s the most immature and irresponsible way possible to consume media.
I’m not into comics, just not my thing but I don’t think they’re beneath me. They have good stories. No one has ever criticised me for not liking comics except recommend stories they feel I would enjoy. Comics are not only Marvel or DC. I’m a Sci fi nerd and it has coloured my world view and philosophy. Many comics are in the genre just in a different medium. It is escapism in a way but it shows what COULD BE and that things don’t have to be the way they are.
Heck, just stating, “Hey, I don’t really care for comics,” sets you up to be ridiculed as an elitist fuddy-duddy. Eh, that’d be fine. I read comics. I would not give a shit if someone said that they don’t care for comics. I’ve heard that sentiment fairly frequently.He didn’t do that.And, to your earlier point: You just really hate to agree with the guy. He’s a smarmy prick, would be the reason.
I am going to laugh so hard and so cynically if this gets Bill Maher in more trouble than when he dropped the N word in a bad joke. Unlike the outraged fanboys losing their shit on twitter, I actually read the piece, and while I don’t agree with it, I also don’t entirely disagree. And I’m the guy whose big senior papers in college were “Oz and American Myth” and “From the Apostles to the Round Table to the Jedi Order.”
If only Stan Lee had done something useful with his life, like giving a platform to pedophilia enthusiast and Trump supporter Milo Yiannopoulos.
Assholes gonna assThe attention seeker is just jealous of all the love Stan is getting and he knows when he kicks it people will be asking:
Mahr’s Piece reads like an op-ed in a college newspaper. Good grief, fuck you dude. Sometimes popular opinion is right. Challenging EVERYTHING is just as stupid as challenging nothing. So not punk rock.
If comics are the reason for Trump getting elected, then I thank Stan Lee and comics.
Bill Maher is the human equivalent of an unsolicited picture of an ugly penis. I don’t understand why we all keep looking at it.
And next week he’s going to start his show with “Ooh. I made the nerds mad this week…” As though comic book culture doesn’t have any of the “let’s fuck” subtext that he’s fond of in everything else. Hey Bill! Better get after that Elvis fellow too, this so called “Rock and Roll” culture is keeping the kids from reading Plato. Get on that you fucking voice-of-a-generation you. Know what else is wrong with today’s media culture? Pundits who vomit click-bait and then act holier-than-thou as though they didn’t just vomit click-bait.
Maher operates on the same level as Trump, the ‘Look at me, look at what I’m saying that’s going to rile people up.’
We have to start ignoring these assholes, you have to stop writing articles about them.
Maher is really trying to keep up with Ricky Gervais in the “Comedian I used to like who became completely insufferable.” race. But at least Gervais gave us “The Office” and “Extras” before it happened.
They aren’t less funny. You are just an old biddy now who comedians can rile up and get your panties in a bunch. It’s because your brain was never smart and now it is rotting. Smart people don’t get all mad at a comedian. Read all the dumb people on this website.
No love for DC Cab?
No love for Cannibal Women in the Avocado Jungles of Death?
I feel the same way about baseball, Bill. I know you’re a big fan of baseball. Baseball is a sport for kids to play and for adults who don’t play to stupidly obsess over. Why don’t you grow up and get a real hobby? Tell me what walls has baseball ever helped break down for society?*
*he asks having done no research on baseball the same way Bill popped off having done no research.
Guess he’s more of a DC Comics guy.
Best comment, hands down!
Whether or not some of his points might not be as far from the mark as many would make it seem, what spectacularly douchey timing.
Heres the thing though, not EVERYONE was as enamored with Stan Lee as most people it seems. When I saw the obit my first thought was “hm, Stan Lee passed away…” then I read others taking it really hard and I was like, “wow!” I know the proper way to acknowledge one’s lack of sorrow would be to be respectful and not say anything or at least a RIP Stan Lee if you really wanted to try to be empathetic, but how do you respond to someone who’s obviously had a deep connection to him somehow. “there there?” Anyways point being, while he does take a totally bullshit holier than thou approach, I can still kind of see where Bill’s coming from.
Cool, he didn’t mean that much to you. I wasn’t a Bowie fan but I didn’t shit on anyone that was sad about his passing. That’s why Bill Maher is such a spectacular dick; he devoted an entire blog post days after Stan died to basically saying “Fuck Stan Lee and everyone that cared about him”.
If you’re going to quote Maher properly, you need to get yourself a big ol’ satisfying sniff of your own fart first. And don’t forget to pause for the nonexistent laughter after each of your lazy and obvious jokes.
Typical Maher these days.He attacks someone who doesn’t deserve it (comic fans, college students or Musloms) and then uses the social media extremist posts to justify his attack.I turned him off for good about two years ago, he is just a nasty old man these days. Not to mention, hell host anyone regardless of character.I can go several other places for liberal based hunor.
Drop the “these days” from your first sentence and you’ve nailed it.
Oh, I mean the last 7-10 years.
You can probably double that.
We’ll chalk up my previous affinity to being young and dumb
Aaaand… let’s not forget Bill Maher defending pedophiles on more than one occasion. Shitting on religious people, all religions (although, I’ve never heard him say anything bad about Satanism, but I could be mistaken), arguing for grown men’s rights to have sex with underage kids or making racial slurs wasn’t controversial enough. He had to start bashing a cultural icon loved by many, while adoring fans are mourning Stan Lee’s death.
I don’t think it’s a huge stretch to suggest that Donald Trump Bill Maher could only get elected stay on TV in a country that thinks comic books are important.Fixed that for you, Bill…
Bill Maher is such a ding-dong. It’s weird to me that people didn’t spot it sooner.
The thing is, in this blog post, Ding-Dong Maher simply betrays how (as usual) myopic
he is. All of the dumb ‘challenging’ stuff that he says, it just
betrays his own tunnel vision, not some grand insight into the
destructive foibles of society like he appears to think. Like, if your argument only works for the period of time during which you’re the centre of the known universe, it’s probably not a real argument. Quite specifically:
I don’t think it’s a huge stretch to suggest that Donald Trump could
only get elected in a country that thinks comic books are important.
Yeah well I don’t think it’s a stretch to think that a guy who forgot the rest of the world exists, either with regards to the fact that other countries place cultural relevance on comic books and have democratically-elected leaders might actually be too much of a ding-dong to know what he’s talking about. Also when you’re such a ding-dong that you fail to grasp your own country’s history sufficiently to know that saying the n-word is a hateful thing to do, you’re sort of already seen as ethically disqualified by a good portion of the world. Ya ding dong.
All these libertarian ding-dongs from the 90s who thought that they were saying iconoclastic things to challenge the status quo were ding-dongs then, and they’re even more obviously ding-dongs now because their whole brand was based upon this idea that they were speaking truth to some hegemonic power structure, but now the internet exists and while the rest of us have all gone “huh, fascinating: look at the way the internet has fractured what we used to call the mainstream into a million different tribes with special interests” these guys still respond to the world as though it’s a mass of conformist zombies with only themselves as the brave outliers. What a ding-dong.
I don’t even say this as somebody who’s particularly upset about Stan Lee’s passing (though a lot of his work is surely part of my formative experience).
He seemed like a charismatic guy, which is interesting, and he seemed to use his charisma for good, which is cool, and his creations captured something about the human condition which people connected with, which is wonderful, and he lived a long and productive life, which is something to aspire to. He’s a beloved artist, which means that people who love his work will be sad when he dies. That’s all entirely fair enough and it’s not really any different to people being sad when some famous baby-boomer ding-dong hero of Bill Maher’s dies and he gets sad. The fuckin’ ding-dong.
“& the bells are ringing out…”seriously, though – thanks for that…
Bill Maher’s been known as a self-aggrandizing ding-dong for quite some time. People really only pay attention to him now when goes out of his way to offend.
Hey, man, why do you spend so much time thinking about Bill Maher’s ding-dong?
Because there’s a photo of it right there at the top of this article!
How does Bill Maher not get punched very hard in the face every day of his life?I saw the MIA documentary recently, and he responded to her heartfelt, passionate talk about the Tamil Tigers with a joke about her English accent, trying to undermine and make irrelevant everything she was saying for the sake of a glib, hacky one-liner about Mick Jagger. She looked like she wanted to strangle him. The man is clearly a cunt of the highest order.
I mean, his face looks like it gets punched very hard every day.
Twenty years is nothing. Mahers has been pompous for at least twenty-five years.
Maher has been doing this kind of shit for years. Once in a while he says something that makes sense but most of the time he is just trolling. That’s his schtick. He should just be ignored because 99% of the time he doesn’t add anything meaningful to the discussion. We should just ignore him. Maher is just a very poor man’s Christopher Hitchens without the wit or intellect. Like Hitch or not he made good points and defended them ably. I am a Christian but I read God is Not Great, didn’t agree with him but it was nice to hear a mostly reasoned approach to the subject. Maher’s ventures into the No God realm are so sloppy and are just a collection of snarky comments.
He says Trump could only have been elected in a country where comic books are important. But I don’t see France, Belgium, Japan or even the UK electing such a giant moron.
Well, London did elect Khan, but other than that you point holds up well.
Whatever you think of Khan’s views or politics, his brain is light years ahead of the giant baby who can’t even finish a coherent sentence, insults people devastated by natural disasters, talks about dating his own daughter, etc.
that said the recent run of UK “leaders” haven’t exactly shown themselves to be mental giants for the ages…Khan is basically small beer…& May might be an improvement on the walking sack-of-smug that preceded her but she’s still reeling her way down the same stupid-drunk garden path he led Europe into because he arrogantly thought he had the whip hand with his own foaming-at-the-mouth right-wing fringe element…it’s almost as though there’s a common denominator at work here that isn’t the grown-up-folks-like-comic-books-bit about which Bill hasn’t chosen to grace us with his wisdom…because…oh, hell…the truth is I don’t care enough about him or his pronouncements to take that train of thought any further…but I don’t think there’s a scenic route & the destination isn’t worthy of the fare…
Ttrust me, Belgium isn’t immune to electing loudmouth morons, but the country’s divided political structure ensures that only the most inoffensive politicians can become prime minister… Hmm, perhaps that explains the enduring popularity of Tintin/Kuifje.
Well in Japan, Abe is a Trump in everything but bravado. His right-hand man not that long ago just put out a statement saying that before men should be prosecuted for molesting women and little girls on trains (something almost every Japanese woman has experienced in her life), he should get reparations from gay people for having to look at them together in public. Abe’s cabinet is full of literal Nazi apologists and his online “nettuyo” fanbase are even more vicious and depraved than Trumplings. And UK voted Brexit sooo… I’m not sure I see what you’re saying here lol. Seems like idiocy is plentiful in every country that nurtures it.
Brexit was a dumb decision, which I voted against, but Trump is a iteral simpleton. The UK would not vote for someone who is actually stupid. We might call Cameron, May, Corbin and all the rest idiots, but they all have a reasonable grasp of reality and a command of the English language. Trump is a step beyond.Really though, the point is Maher is displaying typical American exceptionalism, though in more of a self-deprecatory way than it usually manifests. He makes his point on the basis of assuming America is the only country comics are important. Which is bullshit. And just a reflection of not considering anyone else’s perspective beyond US borders.And, above all of that, it is still maddening that he is disparaging the medium. Apart from the fact that he is ignorant of Speigelman, Eisner, Moore, Herge, and all the rest; he thinks pictures are an art form; he thinks text is an art form; but he doesn’t think putting them together is an artform. What a fucking tool.
Maybe not but we did vote in favour of Brexit which is about as ill self-serving as voting Trump in. At least he’ll go away in a few years.
The weirder part is where he says “I don’t think it’s a huge stretch”. Like, it clearly and obviously is a huge stretch ya fuckin’ ding-dong, and you’d have to be a ding-dong who’s taken leave of his senses to think that you’ve landed at a self-evident conclusion. Why doesn’t he think it’s a huge stretch? The reams and reams of research into the link between comics and the shifting cultural and political landscape ? The clear and observable playing-out of the modern political discourse in superhero comics, capturing it in all it’s complexity? Some other thing that doesn’t exist?Simply rhetorically saying it’s not a huge stretch doesn’t suddenly mean you’ve made an argument. What a ding-dong.
I’m sure it has been pointed out by now, but I guess Maher was able to stick his principles in the closet long enough to cash that check he got for being in Iron Man 3.
Bill Maher can, and should, fall down a well and die.
Oh look, Bill Maher’s being a giant fucking asshole again. Film at 11!
To be fair, he wasn’t badmouthing Stan Lee fans. He was badmouthing everyone under 50.
Didn’t this asshole appear in Iron Man 3?
Maher is just the embodiment of smug liberal elitism and the sooner he goes away the better.
Well, now that he’s gone after the nerds, he’s going to be losing the last people who still stuck with liking him for his atheism.
Honestly? The only good response is likely something Bill heard a lot growing up.
“That’s nice, Bill,”
Mahers resemblance to Hefner is kind of weird.
Well, he’s a douche. But I gotta say, his point is not entirely wrong, judging from how comic “fans” have behaved in recent years. They’re not any better than Maher himself.
although, in fairness “those guys” don’t exactly represent everyone you’d catch in the comic-book-reader net…that tends to be the preserve of the sort who think the internet is interested in what they have to say…why are you looking at me like that…was it something I said…?
“Hey Rocky watch me make an ass out of myself.”
It’s not like he is alone in his elitist thinking, Alan Moore for example has had screeds about adults being to driven by childlike entertainment.
But for the most part what these folks boil down to is “GET OFF MY LAWN YOU UNRULY KIDS.”
it’s also built on the faulty premise that there was a before when adults liked loftier stuff or that it has led to a dumbing down of society, but look at Star Trek and the countless times that that low budget 60’s alien show has been citing as inspiring real life scientists and social thinkers. Are comic books really that different?
Stan Lee’s peek was only a few years from the 60s-70s anyway so the fact he is being blamed for any societal changes of the past 20 years is ridiculous, what Maher is probably likely seeing but not interpreting the right way is the advent of the internet and it being adopted by everyone thus allowing them to say “here’s this thing I really like.”
Something tells me that Alan Moore wouldn’t consider comics (or any other medium) inherently childish.That was Mahers point. Comics – all of them – are for kids.Without seeing the quote, I suspect Moores point is more akin to “adults shouldn’t read YA novels exclusively”. Which is a pretty different argument than all novels are childish.
Pretty hypocritical attitude for Maher to take when there’s a picture of him with Stan Lee in this very article!
I’m not saying we’ve necessarily gotten stupiderI’m not saying we’ve necessarily become more stupidftfy
As always, Bill Maher is stuck somewhere in 1995, sneering and smirking to pretend he’s important. 20 years ago, comic books were not suddenly taken seriously – Marvel had recently declared bankruptcy, and DC was only a few years off “killing” Superman in a blatant sales stunt. What he’s talking about happened in the ‘60s and ‘70s, when Marvel got tons of praise and press for making comics “relevant,” and DC tried to follow suit with social issue doctrines overtaking comics like Green Arrow, Teen Titans, and Wonder Woman. Comic book movies becoming popular isn’t because of comic books suddenly becoming well-respected. It wasn’t about people pretending. The Marvel movies took off at the box office BECAUSE many saw them as good popcorn entertainment. They knew what they were getting and were happy with it. That has nothing to do with electing Trump. That’s like saying Star Wars being popular is why Reagan was elected.Maher doesn’t understand that, because he has spent his life reminding us how morally and intellectually superior he is, even though he has never done one thing in his whole career to actually make any of this superiority feel warranted.
He’s an asshole but he’s not wrong.
Look, I like Bill Maher, but he is turning into a left-wing Dennis Miller (which has been noted here before…along with that his show really is a lot like the Dennis Miller show with “Rants” that it replaced). I don’t have to like a lot of what Maher does and his smugness to like him and a lot of what he thinks and says…which is one of the points he makes repeatedly about not needing the perfect candidate to be worth some trust fund baby’s precious vote when the alternative is going to throw minorities out of their neighborhoods (so the trust fund baby can move in there and find themself).But there is anti-snob snobbery (“I don’t read that fancy poetry, REAL men read Sean Hannity!”) and there is another iteration further than that. Bill Maher sneers at people who read sophisticated literature and aesthetes at the same time he sneers at people who consider comic books high culture. He hasn’t ever read “The Avengers”…but he hasn’t ever really spoken out in favor of reading whateverthefuck Tolstoy and shit because he has populist pretensions to maintain (despite being an ivy league millionaire). I learned way more about civil rights, history, and mythology from comic books and Stan Lee than I did through any other medium…to say that I had to go sort out what was and wasn’t fictionalized ignores the degree to which our textbooks are fictionalized (shit, last week’s Doctor Who taught me more about the partition of India than I learned from failing to get through Midnight’s Children twice).I’m not Mike Myers and going to argue and be proven wrong again and again that a fart joke is the same thing as an Oscar Wilde epigram, but apart from what rich people were willing to pay for you need a coherent way to divide high and low culture before you can start looking down on people. Dickens wrote serials in the equivalent of Reader’s Digest, is writing things for the masses or that are entertaining or that utilize tropes not high art? Meanwhile I doubt Bill would argue that, for example, George Romero films should be considered high art, so he would likely lack internal consistency, too. He’d likely say “Why not consider Night of the Living Dead with Citizen Kane?” (and Welles would likely agree). This is a really long way of saying that, like that “crowds are too PC” complaint, this is a continuation of Bill’s old man whine against millennials.
When Bill Maher dies no one is going to bother really writing anything except the obligatory obituary, shrug their shoulders and think that guy was probably a total asshole.
I could understand if he said superhero movies are stupid but he said comic books are stupid. Comic books are a medium, not a genre. It’s like saying film is stupid vs slasher movies are stupid. Someone on the internet said if Shakespeare decided to write a comic and Michaelangelo agreed to paint it, would that not be art?And even then, this is from someone who’s obviously never read comics. When speculating about the current boom in Hollywood recycling your childhood and selling it back to you, Kevin Smith pretty much nailed it when he said (paraphrasing) “Adulthood sucks and Marvel has a time machine that for $20 they can make me feel like I did when I was ten years old for two hours.”Unlike Bill Maher, most of us aren’t millionaires with a history of banging Playmates. It’s why they call it escapism.
That’s like saying anyone who plays video games is a basement dwelling, racist, sexist, immature mama’s boy.Just because a part of the community is extremely vocal, doesn’t mean it represents the entire community.
Who has done more for progressive liberalism?Stan Lee and this year’s movie cultural sensation, Black Panther, which he helped create, or Bill Maher and his Islamophobic, Milo Yiannopoulos praising, misogynist screeds?Hmm…let me ponder that one…
Fuck Bill Maher.
I was going to write more, but then I realized that it’s all just that with more words.
Bill Maher sucks big fucking elephant-size dick. He can take his $100M , his bulbous schnozz and bong and fuck himself with all 3.
Bill can be so bitchy.
That’s funny, because Politically Incorrect was the roundtable discussion equivalent of a kid making his action figures fight by smashing their faces together. He’s also partly to blame for Trump and other grossly unqualified idiots running for office by bringing Christine O’Donnell to the public’s attention. Remember her? “I’m not a witch”? An absolute nobody until Maher dragged her onto his show something like 22 times. And she got the Republican nomination for the Senate seat that Joe Biden vacated. How could any random blowhard who got the Dunning-Kruger Lifetime Achievement award not look at that spectacle and not start phoning up professional campaigners? Thanks, Bill.
Yeah, Bill Maher once said “email is the CB radio of the ‘90s” so clearly he knows what he’s talking about.
The real problem is that there are still people out there who care what this immature, ignorant, faux-intellectual, narcissist has to say about anything.
Maher always has and continues to be an asshole. He’s just an asshole who now and again is on the right side. Doesn’t make him not an asshole.
Yeah, if there is one type of person that should really be lecturing people on how they spend their free time and about ‘growing up’, and ‘wasting time’ and putting away childish things, it’s the dude in his fifties who brags about all the weed he smokes.
I like Bill but he does have a tendency to frequently employ “false choice” arguments. Like when he bitches about space exploration by ranting “we should save this planet first” nonsense.Bill, the old adage still applies: it can be two things. We can do (more than) two things at once. We can read graphic novels and non-fiction books about important topics.
Bill Maher is a giant idiot. But he’s also kind of right.
You know what would be a good look on Maher? Being on fire.
Edgelords gonna edgelord.
fuck it not worth it
Does Maher himself actually read “sophisticated literature,” or is he criticizing a purported superficiality that he is complicit in?