Explaining all the Easter eggs in Doctor Strange In The Multiverse Of Madness
Here's what you need to know about how Earth-616, that third eye, and much more fit into the mythology of the MCU
Film Features Doctor Strange
WARNING: This article contains major spoilers.
By now audiences have come to realize that the intense interconnectedness of the Marvel Cinematic Universe is one of its most compelling features, with each new film revealing a portion of an unfolding tapestry. Even more than most MCU entries, Doctor Strange In the Multiverse Of Madness is a nexus for the latest phase of the superhero franchise, with characters, plotlines, backstories and other continuity tendrils stretching into multiple Marvel films and TV shows. It’s also packed with meta nods to superhero film continuities outside the MCU, in-jokes referencing behind-the-scenes developments, and Easter eggs culled from decades of comics lore.
For those who may have felt excluded by peals of applause at certain lines or confused by certain character motivations, The A.V. Club has assembled an explainer behind the key details in Stephen Strange’s latest mystical adventure. Whether you’re a complete newcomer to the multiverse, a casual fan, or an MCU die-hard puzzled by a deep-cut reference, this breakdown offers all the knowledge necessary to navigate multiple realities as easily as America Chavez.
The Multiverse
Given how the story kicks off, in the thick of an action-packed chase with Doctor Strange and America Chavez attempting to escape a supernatural pursuer in the extra-dimensional space between parallel universes, you might think you’ve missed something from the get-go.
But what you need to know about the multiverse was first set out in the Disney+ series Loki (also written by this film’s co-screenwriter Michael Waldron), which lays down many of the alt-universe ground rules. These universes offer both nearly identical and dramatically different variations of any character that audiences may have encountered in the MCU, from a female Loki to an alligator Loki.
The concept was further explored in the Disney+ animated anthology, What If…?, with alternate history scenarios featuring various MCU stars, including a variant Strange who’s obsessed with preventing the tragic death of his true love, Christine Palmer.
Spider-Man: No Way Home brought the multiverse to the big screen—including the catastrophic dangers posed when two or more universes begin to bleed together. That’s what happened when Spider-Man, desperate to wipe away all public knowledge of his secret identity as Peter Parker, accidentally corrupted Strange’s spell, causing several enemies of alt-universe wall-crawlers to cross over into the central MCU, followed a pair of Spider-Men (Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield) from non-Disney-owned films. That clever twist solidified the notion that characters and actors from films outside the MCU could make appearances via multiversal magic.
If you’ve seen Strange’s appearances in his debut film, Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Endgame, you’re up to speed with Stephen. America Chavez (Xochitl Gomez) and her multiverse-hopping power debuted in Marvel’s comic book pages back in 2011, but this is her first appearance in the MCU.
Early Easter Eggs
Audiences met alt-Doctor Stranges in What If…?, and there are a couple of tip-offs that the cold-open Strange in Multiverse isn’t the one they know from past MCU films: the distinctive white streaks in his hair site much higher up than his typically silver temples, and he’s wearing a costume inspired by the sleek, cape-less black-and-red ensemble that the Doc sported—and the ponytail he rocked—in the comic books circa 2011.
The Book of the Vishanti is also a reference from the comics, a millennia-old white-magic tome introduced by Doctor Strange creators Stan Lee and Steve Ditko back in 1963. Here it serves as a “good” counterpart to the evil Darkhold, which we’ll explore in a moment.
Shuma Gorath
If a handful of people around you in the theater gasped in recognition when Strange made the giant, one-eyed, multi-tentacled creature pursuing America in Manhattan visible, that’s because they’re familiar with the Lovecraftian creature’s comic book antecedent, Shuma Gorath, an ancient interdimensional conqueror that’s been battling Strange on and off in the comics since his debut in 1972, where the sentient demon was decidedly even more evil.
The Scarlet Witch
The film wastes little time on backstory for Wanda Maximoff (Elizabeth Olsen), assuming the audience was among the many viewers of Disney+’s debut series WandaVision, not to mention her earlier MCU appearances, first as an adversary, and later as a member of the Avengers.
Wanda fell in love with her synthezoid teammate Vision, and in Infinity War she was forced to end his life to keep his Mind Stone out of the hands of Thanos—an ultimately futile sacrifice, as she points out here. In WandaVision it’s revealed that she used her increasingly powerful reality-altering abilities to create Westview, a seemingly utopian world styled after the television sitcoms where she lived happily with a revived (kinda) Vision and their twin sons—who she essentially created out of thin air. They live happily until Wanda discovers she’s being manipulated by witchy Agatha Harkness, who tries to steal her chaos magic. When Wanda abandons her soothing fantasy world to free the residents trapped in Westview, she sacrifices her “family” in the process.
When we last saw Wanda, she had claimed the full power of the Scarlet Witch, the long-prophesied supernatural being with power that exceeds even the Sorcerer Supreme (that title was once held by Strange, but was passed to Wong during his five-year absence after Thanos’ “blip”). That’s also when she began studying the pages of the Darkhold, a sinister book of spells that threatens to corrupt and consume those who seek to harness its mystic powers—as we soon learn here that is has with Wanda.
The Darkhold was first introduced in the comics in Werewolf By Night in 1972 and has been featured in countless supernatural tales over the decades; the MCU version first appeared in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D, though the canonical connection of that series has yet to be determined. Agatha Harkness used it to evade detection while posing as Wanda’s friend and neighbor in Westview.
This film offers a plethora of overt and subtle ties to WandaVision, beginning with composer Danny Elfman’s slightly spookier take on the TV show’s sprightly theme song. In the alternate universe that drives Wanda’s dreams, the look and design of Wanda’s home remains consistent, and Wanda’s sons Tommy and Billy are played by the same young actors from the series. Tellingly, when Wanda reveals herself as the Scarlet Witch, her fingertips are blackened by the use of chaos magic, just as Agatha’s had been.
In keeping with the series’ TV theme, the television in Wanda’s home is nearly always on; rather than sitcoms, it plays vintage Disney cartoons.
Earth-616
Those scattered audience whoops in the theater when the variant Christine informs Strange that the mainstream MCU he inhabits has been designated “616” were from fans who’ve long waited for the comic book lingo to enter the films. The term, conceived by British writer Dave Thorpe, originated in a 1983 issue of a Marvel UK title starring Captain Britain. It was written by then-emerging comic book legend Alan Moore, with 616 cited as the numerical multiverse distinction for the Earth that all of the major Marvel characters hail from. 616 references gradually began to appear in Marvel’s U.S. comics, and the designation became popular with die-hard fans.
The Illuminati
The alternate universe that Strange and America flee to is chock full of clever references from the comics, films and even behind-the-scenes ephemera. First is the concept of the Illuminati itself, not to be confused with Beyonce, but a secret braintrust of Marvel heroes who meet clandestinely to share information and influence. Introduced in the comics in 2005 but with a history dating back to the beginnings of the Marvel Universe, the group consisted of Strange, Iron Man, Professor X, Atlantis’ Prince Namor the Sub-Mariner, the Inhumans’ Black Bolt and the Fantastic Four’s leader Mr. Fantastic, Reed Richards.
Captain Carter
In Multiverse, perhaps because Namor’s rights are tied up at another studio (and for a welcome sense of inclusivity), the Illuminati’s membership is expanded to include Captain Carter, an alt-universe incarnation of Peggy Carter (Hayley Atwell), the paramour of Steve Rogers/Captain America. In her universe, the S.H.I.E.L.D. founder and headliner of the TV series Agent Carter took the super-soldier serum herself; making her live-action debut, a version of Captain Carter was previously introduced in animated form in What If…?
Captain Marvel
Also joining the group is Captain Marvel, here played by another character from that 2019 film, Maria Rambeau (Lashana Lynch). She’s the best friend of 616 Captain Marvel/Carol Danvers and founder of the extraterrestrial watchdog group S.W.O.R.D., She also happens to be the mother of Monica Rambeau (Teyonah Parris), the S.W.O.R.D. agent who infiltrated Westview during Wanda’s takeover and gained energy powers. Both Rambeaus are expected to appear alongside Carol in the upcoming Marvels film. In a hat-tip to the comics, the green-and-white color scheme of Maria’s armor evokes the uniform of the original Captain Marvel, Kree solider Mar-Vell, when he first appeared in 1967.
Mordo
Taking the seat held by late Doctor Strange variant is an alt-universe Karl Mordo (Chiwetel Ejiofor), who appeared as Strange’s mystical rival for the mantle of Sorcerer Supreme in the first Doctor Strange film.
Ultron
Mordo’s robotic phalanx is a variant of the Iron Legion, the team of A.I. drones that the MCU’s Tony Stark once conceived to protect the world in place of the Avengers until the program was corrupted and became Ultron. Also note that Wanda beheads one of the drones with cathartic glee, a justifiable sensation after Avengers: Age Of Ultron, in which Ultron duped her into serving him, decimated her native Sokovia and caused the death of her twin brother Pietro.
Black Bolt
Actor Anson Mount played Black Bolt, whose merest whisper can level a mountain, in Marvel’s quickly cancelled TV series The Inhumans. His casting here is a bit of multiversal fun, and this time he gets to appear in a more comics-accurate costume, including his tuning forked-cowl and glider batwings.
Mr. Fantastic
Perhaps the most shocking—and smile-inducing—appearance among the Illuminati is John Krasinski’s inclusion as Reed Richards. Fans have clamored loud and long for him to be cast as Mr. Fantastic in a planned Fantastic Four film along with his wife Emily Blunt as the Invisible Woman, Sue Storm. Whether Krasinski’s alt-Reed proves to be a dead ringer for the stretchable hero of the FF film to follow or simply a bearded multiverse variant remains to be seen, but his appearance serves an extra-extra level of MCU minutiae: he was also one of the top candidates to play Captain America before Chris Evans landed the role.
Professor X
After much speculation in the months preceding the release of the film, Patrick Stewart’s return to the role of telepathic mutant leader Professor Charles Xavier, which he made iconic in a string of X-Men films from 2000 to 2017, came as little surprise, but still delivered plenty of delight. With Disney’s acquisition of 20th Century Fox, Marvel Studios now has full control of the X-Men franchise, and Stewart’s casting was both a terrific multiverse twist and a great segue for the next incarnation of the super-popular mutant team in the MCU—whatever that may be.
Xavier’s presence also evokes Wanda’s comic book origins as an X-Men antagonist, while also serving up strong parallels to the famed “Dark Phoenix” saga and Wanda’s own mutant-eliminating comic-book turn to the dark side in the “House of M” storyline.
Later, when Prof. X is psychically searching for the altruistic alt-Wanda buried within the Scarlet Witch’s mind, he finds her under the rubble of a destroyed city, evoking her homeland, where she was the only survivor of bomb strike that killed her family. Wanda takes solace in the happy memories of watching TV sitcoms, and images of Wanda and Vision’s wedding video flicker across the screen on a TV in the rubble as Xavier tries to free Wanda.
Even More Easter Eggs
As the plot kicks into an even higher gear, more choice Easter eggs surface, not the least of which is Wundagore Mountain, the isolated, centuries-old citadel where Wanda’s dark destiny was anticipated. In the comics, Wundagore was the half-scientific, half-mystic secret locale where Wanda and her brother Pietro were born, and where later, as members of the Avengers, they battled Chthon, an ancient demon and master of black magic who claimed to have enhanced Wanda’s mutant abilities with genuine witchcraft. Chthon, too, gets a brief shoutout in the film as the author of the Darkhold. In another straight-from-the-comics riff, Strange also reveals the tragic backstory of his sister Donna, which set him on the path to becoming a physician.
The Third Eye
Regarding Strange’s latest mystical acquisition in the film’s closing moments, the Master of the Mystic Arts has frequently employed third-eye symbolism over the decades by using the Eye of Agamatto, which he wears as an amulet, levitating it to his forehead as a conduit for supernatural visions. But in the MCU, the Eye was revealed to be the Time Stone, which has been hidden for safekeeping in the wake of Avengers: Endgame and, as suggested in Loki, is seemingly in the possession of the Time Variance Authority. Here, the third eye appears quite literally as an aftereffect of Strange’s use of the Darkhold to defeat Wanda.
Clea
Any surprise appearance by Charlize Theron is wont to prompt excited gasps, but some Marvel fans were also thrilled by the realization, due to the platinum hair and purple-hued costume, that she is (almost certainly) playing Clea, an inter-dimensional sorceress from the comics and Strange’s longtime disciple, lover and eventual wife. Clea’s mother was Umar of the Dark Dimension, the evil sister of Dormammu, the would-be conqueror defeated by Strange. Though Clea’s relationship with Strange proved rocky, she would for a time equal him as the Sorcerer Supreme of her native realm. In the film, the variant Christine advised Strange to face his fears when it came to relationships, and his line to Clea about not being afraid likely alludes to something more personal than merely joining her in her efforts to repair the Multiverse.
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An unfolding tapestry isn’t how I would describe the MCU’s weird design. If you turn it around and look at the back, you’ll see plenty of loose threads. For example “In Wandavision it’s revealed….” When it comes to these movies, you have to wait for some future narrative to justify what has already occurred. That’s an old narrative device but not one of the best (or most economical) and a sort of burnout can result for the reader/viewer.
Under scrutiny, the seams will show, but all things considered, the threads have held together fairly well. Whether self-contained, or serializing it, MCU’s best narratives try to account for as much as they can. When they don’t, and put something out there in the hopes some other movie will take care of it, is where they can get sloppy. But if all else fails, retcon. That’s how the Tesseract and Aether suddenly became Infinity Stones.
The Namor rights are supposedly very similar to the Hulk rights, as in they can use Namor all they want but if the movie is called “Namor” then distribution rights go to Universal Studios. It’s more likely that Namor wasn’t on the Illuminati because they don’t want to introduce him here when he’s already the villain of Black Panther 2, to be played by Tenoch Huerta.
Wouldn’t the rights have reverted by now? Like isn’t that why they made that low-budget F4 movie in the 90’s?
It’s also why they made that terrible F4 movie in 2015.
Nah, every one of those agreements was different and with different studios. Like the FF rights required Fox to make efforts to make an FF movie every five years, but the Spider-Man rights are just permanently sold to Sony. The Hulk and Namor rights are at Universal and they’re effectively permanent, but the thing that is permanent is “Any Hulk or Namor movie is distributed by Universal” which means the characters can appear in other people’s movies. It’s all very silly.
This isn’t entirely true. If Sony Pictures is acquired by another studio, they will lose the rights to Spider-Man. The same is true for the Universal rights, which has been complicating studio acquisitions for the last few years…
well, *that* isn’t really true either: Universal’s rights to those two *are* survivable, if Universal is acquired by another studio (within certain specific parameters); whereas Sony – although the arrangement with Marvel *seems* permanent by now, because all parties have been co-operating and contentedly splitting the reaped *fortune* – it still remains in bedrock & essence a *license* from Marvel to Sony of the Spider-man property, of/for which Sony has quite assuredly maintained all the terms, and so Marvel can’t simply ‘yoink’ them back as much as they desire to. But if Sony ceased meeting any terms, or ceased to be, or was acquired by a different studio (per the original license terms) or Disney (obviating the license) then Marvel would fully have them assembled (sorry) again.
If Sony doesn’t make a Spider-Man film every 5.75 years, the rights revert to Marvel/current owners of Marvel.
Man, still wish so much that Black Panther 2’s villain was Dr. Doom. Imagine if this other seemingly backwater country that secretly housed incredible magic and science was inspired by Wakanda to enter the world stage, but this time the leader doesn’t have altruistic intentions. Introducing Victor as someone who’s already an incredible sorcerer/scientist/dictator separate from the Fantastic Four (and in a Black Panther movie to tie in that both characters were introduced in FF) would’ve ruled.
Yeah, that was my #1 pick for the BP2 villain as well. But honestly a lot of that was going to be about the clash of ideologies between two super leaders and now that Boseman has died and they aren’t recasting the role I dunno if I still want that.
While that was definitely my original idea, it could still work with a new leader or whatever they do in this version trying to live up to a predecessor that opened borders and having a weird pseudo mentor figure in Victor.
I heard The Living Tribunal was seen in the film somewhere. Can anyone please tell me when?
When Strange and America are first traveling through the multiverse, they pass through a world that has a giant head with three faces. This is the Living Tribunal. He’s only in the film for a few seconds, though.
Yeah, I suspect there are a LOT more Easter Eggs in that quick sequence that we’ll need a good-quality bootleg of before we can grab them all.
Was he looking for his staff? Mordo has it.
It was just an image of LT Strange & America fell past on their way to all the other dimensions.
I feel like there was a shot or two of LT when Strange and America were skipping through realities. Definitely remember seeing but was a little drunk so I forget where, haha
Guessed Captain Carter. Guessed Maria Rambeau. Could not believe they played the Halpert card.My biggest surprise was them all getting owned in 5 minutes. But I didn’t think theyd have the balls to really make Wanda break that bad
I think we’re going to find out that that isn’t the Captain Carter from the What If episodes and instead Captain Carter is just a thing that’s as likely to happen as Captain Rogers over enough universes. The jetpack was a different touch for one thing, and for another Marvel has already confirmed that the Captain Carter from What If is going to keep being featured in What If season 2, which would be hard if she died.
Oh also given the post-credit scene in What If we know that that Carter ends up on a SHIELD team with Black Widow and finds a still-alive Steve Rogers, so that stuff might have mattered to the movie if it was the same character.
I don’t think there was anything to indicate that we were supposed to think it was the same Captain Carter from What If?… Just _A_ Captain Carter.
And in the What If? universe everything is a cartoon.
It’s the sacred tradition of alternate universes that their superheroes get massacred constantly.
the MCU version first appeared in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D, though the canonical connection of that series has yet to be determinedConsidering 1) they introduced the Netflix Daredevil and Kingpin in Spider-Man: No Way Home and Hawkeye, 2) they literally used the same actor (Anson Mount) to play Black Bolt in Multiverse of Madness who played him in ABC’s Inhumans and 3) the corruption that reading the Darkhold causes was established quite clearly in Agents of SHIELD, well, I think the answer is clear: everything is canon.
Yeah, it is really starting to feel that way to me too. We’re 2-2 on recent MCU movies featuring TV actors in their role. (And even before that, there was also James D’Arcy as Jarvis in Endgame – it’s like they’re seeding them in.)
Everything is canon, the question is is everything in the “sacred timeline” Like the Rami spider-man movies are now canon, but still didn’t happen in the main universe.
It’s been a while, but I think at least like the final season of Agents of Shield has to be in another timeline? They time travel and shit and Thanos never shows up.
Thanos is mentioned and I think it’s said the New York fight happens (Gravitron plans to fight him before losing his mind) but then I think the production team were screwed by not being told about the Snap or even at least that they should make that 1 year later for Season 6 actually 5 or more, perhaps.
graviton thought he could fight Thanos? By himself? That’s funny.
I personally like to believe that AoS is not part of the sacred timeline but a lot of what happens in the early seasons happens in the sacred timeline too.Without AoS, the Hydra plot from TWS is completely wasted and garbage. Hydra emerges in one movie and is completlely demolished after the defeat of a barely developed villain in AoU.But the stuff that happens in AoS from S5 on just doesn’t fit. It makes zero sense for a team of mostly human agents to be taking on planet threatening villains and not even try to get the Avengers they know involved.
of all the things to use to re-establish canonicity for the ABC shows, Inhumans? *shudder*
I definitely felt for Mount in that scene. Like, happy for him to get a foot in the MCU proper, but man, I’m sure he wants to put that whole Inhumans debacle behind him.
But I have a fear with ‘everything is canon’…If everything is canon, then there is no canon, it’s mess of characters and plot. The great thing about the MCU was it felt connected. But if the MCU is going to be a clusterfuck of a multi-verse where its a “Well we got X-Men here, we got Fantastic Four here, Avengers here, then are some shows, others there” it’s going to get mess a
AGENTS of SHIELD sent the helicarrier in Age of Ultron.
Plus… if Wanda’s Darkhold was transcribed from the spells on the walls… maybe there was a second copy made somewhere along the way.
At this point it’s a. Doted that AoS is another corner of the multiverse, post about season 3.
My view is when they got out of the future time loop they weren’t in the same timeline with the rest of the MCU any more. So I’d still count everything before season 5 as canon and after is alt-canon that I can only assume got erased by the TVA at some point.
I know John Krasinski has been fan cast as Mister Fantastic for a while but seeing him here really nails, to me, why it wouldn’t work. John just seems to likeable. I mean Jim from the office is a giant asshole but he still comes off great on that show if you don’t think about it to hard. Reed, to me, needs to come of as cold and removed first and foremost. Ironically Benedict Cumberbatch could probably pull it off but John, I just don’t buy cold super genius with a heart of cold.
He’s had a couple of roles – he played the smarmy new partner of Schwimmer’s ex-wife in that movie Schwimmer did about alcoholism for one – where he has adjusted the “oh, that scamp” level of Halpert only a few degrees and been, “What a fucking tool.”
But you may be on to something that he isn’t going to be as good as near-Data that Reed is sometimes given in the comics.
My fan-casting for Reed and Sue has trended toward Matthew Rhys and Keri Russell lately. And if Emily Blunt is serious about wanting no part of the MCU machine, especially if her husband is lead and maybe director of a movie, then Keri Russell would be a fine leading lady.
(Unless I truly get my wish and that anti-vax hag who plays the Wasp is recast and Keri Russell is the choice)
But, I’m willing to give Krasinski a shot. All those Illuminati were there just to be Koombas for Wanda’s Mario anyway. They need bigger scripts and movies.
I’m not dismissing it outright yet and honestly, maybe the MCU take on Reed is a more likeable guy. I honestly got dad vibes from him which also works for the character. Even before they had kids he was the dad of the group. I really hope the first movie follows the Captain America model and it’s a throwback to the 60s. Then ending with them being thrown into the future somehow. Super hero mad men/The man from Uncle vibes. Can even easily figure out how to get Doctor Doom to time jump as well, since he is all into tech and magic. He may even be the cause they all end up in the modern MCU
In the 60s, they could all be thrown into the Negative Zone, including Doom. The fun part could be in who re-discovers the Negative Zone and frees them. I’ve heard some people say Sokovia could become Latveria, but I say just let Latveria exist, like Wakanda and Sokovia already do. And in regard to him being nicer? At this point he’s the father of Franklin and Valeria, so that could explain his softening. And if you’re going to have The Fixer exist somewhere out there, that would make a nice contrast.
A Fantastic 4 movie set in the 60s is a fantastic idea. Plus it makes sense bc at this point there are already so many established MCU super heroes, it wouldn’t make sense for the FF to suddenly become celebrity heroes in the present day… plus everything about the FF is just so 1960s.
(Unless I truly get my wish and that anti-vax hag who plays the Wasp is recast and Keri Russell is the choice) What’s wrong with personal choice? She’s not anti-vax, just anti-vax for her. Everything else, I could agree with — Matthew & Keri would be a good combo, and if you saw the Americans (which I’m guessing you did) – they have great chemistry on and off screen.
Ooh, I love the idea of Matthew Rhys and Kerri Russell! They are fantastic (ha!) anyway.
Evangeline Lilly is anti-vax? That’s a shame.
Clearly, only Welsh actors should play Reed Richards.Iwan Rheon, anyone?
I was SHOCKED to see him, and couldn’t believe it wasn’t leaked. But after the initial joy wore off, I did kind of get the “be careful what you wish for” feeling, because… he didn’t seem quite right. Maybe he just didn’t have enough time to prep. I mean, it took Hemsworth like 3 movies to finally get a grasp on Thor. Not gonna write off Krasinski after a ten minute cameo, but wasn’t a terribly impressive start.
Also, would it have been better without the beard?
I bet The Fantastic Four movie version will be him, sans beard.
i was really on the doomed-from-the-start William Jackson Harper-as-Reed train, and after this movie i feel vindicated
My fancast is the best fancast.
Reed: Sterling K Brown
Sue: Jurnee Smollett
Johnny: Justice Smith
Ben: Eddie Kingston (Not an actor, but perfect for the role, if he can act at all.)
Eh. SKB was already N’Jadaka in Black Panther. And I’m not against reusing actors at all (#MadsMikkelsen4DoctorDoom), but I thought he just did such a perfect job there, unlike the relatively small and anonymous first appearances of Gemma Chan and Michelle Yeoh before they were reused elsewhere
Oh shit, right. Man, what a waste. I hope they find another role for him down the road, even if it’s not in FF.
For me, it felt like John Krasinski in a costume. Couldn’t see past the actor for the character.
I’d never even heard that the John Krasinski fancast was a thing, so my response to seeing him was: Cool, Reed Richards! But they got Jim?? Really?? What good fancasts have there been that actually worked out?
Patrick Stewart as Professor X would be the only one I can think of off the top of my head.
Christian Bale was fancasted before he got the role, though I’m sure it didn’t factor into him actually getting the role.
I just don’t think we’re ever gonna get actual Reed (the patronizing stick in the mud) in a movie like this, and if you’re going for charming, I guess Krasinski works. But I’m rull sad it’s not gonna be Bill Hader, a dude who could toe the line between playing an actual asshole but making it funny enough for the MCU’s house style.Still hoping against hope for Adam Sandler as Thing. Literally not a person alive who’d be more interesting in the role.
Penn Badgley from You is my fan casting. I think he’d be PERFECT for that role, considering how well he does on the Netflix show. But probably not a big enough name.
He could do it if people remember how Reed used to be. He’s only been a super cold genius the last few years. Originally he had the perfect balance-he had the genius part, but he wasnt cold, he had a clear love for his family and humanity. It was more like he had mild asberger’s, than that he was cold. I dont think he’s been written right since the 80s.
I don’t think Cold Intellect Mr. Fantastic works in the MCU. I mean, sure he would work, as a side character or a temporary antagonist to a more heroic character (“This is the only way”-“No, there is a better way”). I want to see more of Krasinski’s take, a methodical, reasonable Mr. F with the social skills to be part of a team. Though maybe one who defends himself against an omega threat instead of…
He’s too nice, and he doesn’t read as smart. He doesn’t read as dumb either, but Reed needs to be a guy you’d be kinda nervous talking to because you’re aware he’s far smarter than you and could be doing 500 other things more important than humoring a nice dog with a conversation.
I just don’t care for any of his dramatic roles.
Reed loves his wife and kids! And Ben and Johnny! He’s not an a-hole, his flaw is he gets really wrapped up in his scientific pursuits and loses track of time. (Ignore the character assassination of Civil War)
I always wondered why people liked Jim from The Office since he’s obviously an asshole, but the Krasinski = likeable thing makes sense.
Ehhh I don’t agree that Reed needs to be distant. Hickman’s FF run is awfully good, and it basically boils down to “616-Reed is special because he’s a uniquely good dad.” I’ve always associate him with that sort of paternal warmth, which I thought Krasinski nailed.That way, when Reed fucks up (as in Civil War, for example) the audience follows him a bit and it’s a surprise that the likable genius dad got this one so wrong.
that she is (almost certainly) playing Clea The end credits confirm this.
Yep. First thing I checked when the cast list appeared and there she was. Pretty high up in the ranking for just a cameo and to be in DS3 in 5 years…
Is it assumed that Maria Rambeau will appear alongside Carol in Marvels? I mean I assume she’ll be in flashbacks but otherwise she died of lung cancer during the blip.
I mean, they SAID she did. She could also have faked her death to go to space full time(given that Monica was gone at the time and Carol was in space, maybe she felt no connection on Earth..then when Monica came back, it took a couple weeks but she summoned Monica to where she is)
That’s possible, I suppose she could be up on that Nick Fury space station running SWORD, but I kinda doubt they’d do that, since “Where were you when Maria was sick and dying alone? Off beating up aliens?” is probably going to account for like 55% of the drama in The Marvels.
Multiverse version. It can write them out of any problem.
That’s the bad part. The multiverse is out of the bottle now, and if not used properly is just a big easy button. Krazinski can’t make it for a future Reed Richards role because he’s off making A Quiet Place 3 or whatever, fine—replacebhim and say it’s another version. It gives slopiness an allowance.
I havent heard anything about that. Its already going to be 3 marvels-carol, kamala and monica-i doubt theyre going to have a 4th-like you said she might be in flashbacks.
“the Time Stone, which has been hidden for safekeeping in the wake of Avengers: Endgame and, as suggested in Loki, is seemingly in the possession of the Time Variance Authority. “Nope. It was destroyed by Thanos along with all the other stones. The stones sitting around the TVA in drawers and being used as paperweights are multiversal variants without power outside of their home universes. Now, granted, The Ancient One made a big deal of how it was utterly vital that the time stone not be destroyed because ”the infinity stones create what you experience as the flow of time”, but apparently she was either wrong about that, had incomplete information, or was only referring to the elimination of one stone, not all of them, which apparently is fine. It’s a whole thing.
Thank you… bugged me too!
I’m thinking the time stone, only having power in its part of multiverse of origin, might be the only source of time travel that doesn’t cause other multiverse branches.
Since The Avengers were using the Quantum Realm for ‘time travel’, multiverse branches were made for some reason (I guess stepping outside the normal rules of the universe or something?).
I think she was more focused on not removing the time stone from where it is needed, with her possibly having awareness of He Who Remains and his established ‘sacred timeline’. If the Avengers destroyed the stone or removed it permanently when it was needed for future events, they’d all end up pruned.
What’s more confusing is: In Loki the TVA says that The Avengers “were supposed” to travel through time via the Sacred Timeline however how can the sacred timeline be intended to have time travelors if by doing so they’re deliberately creating other timelines/universes by altering the past. I guess maybe it all got pruned when Loki got initially picked up by the TVA? idk.
The TVA doesn’t care about time travel unless that time travel creates more Kangs. They pretend it’s because all time travel is bad, but they don’t actually care about anything but stopping more Kangs.
I noticed this error as well. 616 Time Stone was destroyed by Thanos.
What was wild was just how long they were on-screen. They had a long-ass scene followed by a battle scene showing all of them, which pretty clearly means they’re testing the waters as well as throwing fans some red meat. If they work out a contract deal with Krakinski, I wouldn’t be surprised if he shows up again as a version of Mr. Fantastic down the line.
Like maybe the Fantastic Four movie that comes out next year.
Maybe. On the other hand, I’ve been thinking about this more. Krakinski would probably have to sign a multi-film MCU contract, and I wonder if he’s willing to do that – he’s got plenty of options, both acting and directorial. They’re not as long as they used to be (Feige has said they don’t do the 9-film contracts they had before, something which Chris Evans had resisted), but still probably for multiple films.
They said theyre not doing the multi year contracts anymore.
Next year? No that isn’t correct. It just lots its director and has no confirmed actors. I just googled speculation and some think it could be 2024 at the earliest but there isn’t a date yet. It’s just been continually hinted by Disney that Fantastic Four is “on the horizon”.
I thought it was ready for shooting, what with the sudden change of directors.
Nope, not even written yet.Likely 2025. X-Men in 2026. We’ll see Deadpool 3 first.
Also got the feeling they’re working out how to do stretchy powers without it looking terrible like it did in the 00s movies, but also not looking like body horror. There was very little of it on screen in his brief time fighting. Hopefully not a bad sign for the Ms. Marvel effects.
Ms Marvel is going to have energy powers, theyre not doing the stretchy thing.
“Fighting”
Speaking of, in F4 (2015) Richard’s barely stretched at all. God that movie sucked.
This guy gets it. Personally, I think thats why they changed Ms.Marvels powers for the upcoming show. They still haven’t nailed stretching.
I noticed he never stretched on screen. It showed him stretching into the scene but they very delibretly didn’t show the gumby.I think there is a CGI team in a bunker somewhere on that specific task.
I think the stretching is inherently going to look weird and strange, and they should embrace that. Better “funny strange” than “body horror strange”.
Yeah, I noticed that too, and the brief glimpse of him stretching down into the scene was pretty decent, which is the first time any of the depictions of him have. But (ahem) stretching that into a full movies’ worth is a much taller order.
Elfman also teased the “X-Men ‘97″ theme when Stewart came out in that goofy yellow hoverchair.
I noticed that’s how it was credited, too, as the theme from X-Men ‘97. It’s really pedantic, but it kind of bugs me because the cartoon was on for years and ended in ‘97. I’m sure the actual X-Men ‘97 follow-up will use the same theme, or some variation of it, but it still feels off to me.
True! I should’ve said ‘92. I’m guessing the credit is a rights thing, somehow.
How could not mention the weirdest cameo of them all? I did not see this coming.
So in the worlds where Wanda has kids, who’s the Dad? Or did she just invent them there too and it worked out better?
Yeah I am left wondering about that. Is there no universe where Vis is still alive, too? He likely didn’t exist in 828 as the Ultron-style robots existed so Ultron likely never happened so no need for Vis.
Vision is dead in all universes. Otherwise, she’d surely want to be with him too, right?
Unless you can find a universe where Thanos lost before he got all the stones or never came, he kinda has to be.
I don’t think so. I think towards the end of WandaVision he started to rebel against her control and insist she release her fantasy. I think he went right on her shit list after that and she doesn’t really care about Visions anywhere. Wanda may spend the whole movie talking about getting her kids back but that seems just the current thing she obsessively thinks she deserves. It replaced Vision being alive again, and before that, Stark being dead.
Vision is still around in 616 as the white “ship of Theseus” variant from the end of WandaVision.
That’s what I thought.
Wait didn’t Vision 2.0 get resurrected in WV? Or is he still dead?
I was kinda hoping Hank Pym would be a member of the Illuminati. Let Michael Douglas be a big shot for a bit.
But all if the Illuminati lasted all of 15-minutes of screen time. Why do you want Pym dead? Of course in the multiverse there are an infinite number of Pyms, I guess.
I wanted to see Fishburne up in a chair. Strange all “Is that… Bill Foster? Giant Man?” “What the fuck? No. That’s Laurence Fishburne. He’s on the Illuminati because he’s Laurence fucking Fishburne.”
“And I’m warning you, Strange. If you call me Samuel L. Jackson, I will put my foot so far up your ass it will tear a hole into another universe right through your spleen.”
I got spoiled a bit pre-release on Captain Carter showing up, along with some version of the Illuminati, and obviously Patrick Stewart wasn’t at all subtle about his appearance. But honestly, I didn’t think we’d be getting any sort of Fantastic Four appearance until that universe’s Christine mentioned working for the Baxter Foundation or something of the sort, and even then it was a nice little surprise to see that little bit of fan-casting play out.I was also kind of surprised at how much of a horror movie this was allowed to be. Sure, there was a lot of the typical MCU humor and banter, and some trademark Raimi wonkiness and one-liners, etc. But killing off a group of fan-favorite heroes, some of them in fairly gruesome detail, seems like something the studio would’ve frowned upon, and most of the underground chase could’ve been pulled straight from an actual horror flick. Similarly, stuff like Zombie Strange and the damned spirits would’ve been right at home in an Evil Dead film. None of it really pushed the PG-13 rating, but I’m pretty sure some of the 5-10 year old kids who begged their parents to take them might not be sleeping so well tonight.
It would’ve been a much better movie if the tone had stayed consistently ‘horror’-ish. Bouncing between colorful CGI set pieces and hammy melodrama made the more visceral shocks seem out of place and tonally inconsistent.
The only one of these that bothered me was the MCU prime setting getting called 616. Sure, it’s all arbitrary and they just used it as an easter egg, but it would have been nice if they’d stayed consistent and used the standard 199999 designation.The only other thing that bothered me about the film was saying that dreams are ties to your other multiversal selves. That’s has some pretty big implications if they ever decide to use Nightmare. lol
Truly felt like this movie did Wanda so dirty. I know the whole “the darkhold corrupts you” thing is stated, but it still feels busted for 1) her to have seemingly retained no insight or guilt about her time in Westview and 2) for a character who is a refugee war orphan who lost her parents, brother, freedom, husband, kids, and husband again in that order to have the grand culmination of her arc be “she went bonkers and then dropped a mountain on herself.”
It was the Dark Phoenix story again. She gets power, goes crazy and starts killing people so has to die.
Don’t think of it as ‘dropped a mountain on herself.’ Think of it as ‘being crushed by the weight of it all.’ More poetic.
I think the trick is that WandaVision convinced everyone that she was remorseful and didn’t mean to be a villain. I don’t believe it. I think she only abandoned Westview because it became apparent that witches and SWORD agents were gonna keep showing up and ruining things. She also realized pretty fast her goal was still attainable through the Darkhold, so it was a matter of convenience to feign some remorse and head to a remote cabin in the woods where she could just immediately go full-hog into some serious corruption.
With you. I’m somewhat baffled by the takes I’m seeing in places that the movie ruined Wanda’s character arc, made her a villain, or related takes. WV literally ends with her becoming the Scarlett Witch and has the Darkhold. How is that not obvious to which direction things are headed?
I dont know if that was her motivation. She could fight Sword and evil witches all day.
WandaVision literally ends with her studying the Darkhold because she hasn’t given up and her particular trolley problem—people’s lives/all of reality vs getting to have her family has only one solution, and it’s to choose her family. I don’t know that it makes her evil, but it does mean that remorse doesn’t really factor into her calculus.
I know! That’s what I was saying. That it’s a disappointment that so many people took WandaVision to include a redemption arc in addition to a villain arc. It didn’t! It’s just a villain origin story. Hell, it’s two villain origin stories.
100%One of the big reasons WandaVision even exists is to make her storming into MOM as a ruthless villain make sense
Yeah, to me it all flows well. I think she was sincere with her remorse about Westview, she accepted that her sitcom kids weren’t real and let them go, but as she read and studied the Darkhold, became aware that those exact kids are real in all the other universes, and that information changed everything
There’s a whole chapter about the Scarlet Witch in the Evil book that drives people crazy, it definitely wrecked with her head and she was already wobbly from loss and taking over a whole town even without the evil book that drives people crazy.
It was a failure of the direction, mostly, the script could’ve handled it. Strange should have taken the corruption more seriously and tried to find a way to ‘rescue’ her from it while she went on a rampage, rather than defaulting to “Oh well let’s shoot energy beams at each other”. Raimi couldn’t decide whether she was supposed to be a sympathetic character (which is just dumb for the reasons you gave above) and the tone was utterly inconsistent.
Elizabeth Olsen signed a multipicture deal that extends way beyond here. No body, no death. Flash of red magic as the mountain collapses? Good chance Wanda saved herself.
I don’t understand why she didn’t find a multiverse where her kids have been orphaned and step in to be their mom? Wouldn’t that have worked for everyone? Why not ask America to help you realize this dream? All America needed was a pep talk to master her powers. Then she could send Wanda wherever she asked like if her kids got sick or whatever dumb excuse she used for why she HAD TO steal America’s powers. We could have had an awesome “women team up to fulfill both of their dreams” movie.
In keeping with the series’ TV theme, the television in Wanda’s home is
nearly always on; rather than sitcoms, it plays vintage Disney cartoons.
You also missed the obvious thing that it’s playing Snow White in the final confrontation. You know, the movie where the villain is motivated by jealousy. The only way it could be more on the nose is if it was playing the Wizard of Oz where there’s a literal wicked witch, but then Disney doesn’t own that.
Apparently, that’s not Shuma-Gorath, but something named Gargantos. (There were rights issues.)
It’s Shuma-Gorath but they used the name of Gargantos (who’s very similar.)The name is owned by the Conan people, and they say they were never contacted about it. It’s a bit weird, as Shuma-Gorath still shows up in the comics (at one point he’s living in Strange’s fridge.)
Marvel’s has the rights to Conan in the comics so Shuma is fair game in the comics. They probably didn’t want to bother getting rights for a minor appearance so made a off brand one
It’s him they just changed the name.
One you missed: when Strange & America are hurtled through all the dimensions, the first one they fall through shows them passing massive heads with some sort of cloth draped over the crane of the skull. That’s the Living Tribunal, the ultimate arbiter of right and wrong in the MU.
Is Doctor Strange the lead avenger now? The movies seem to revolve around him the way they used to for Tony. Besides, the other heavy heroes are either dead or off-planet. Or children. I only ask because his 3rd eye is gross. Comics or not, I hope that isn’t a permanent thing
An Avenger became the most powerful Avenger, and then no more, all in one movie. I guess Doctor Strange, Thor and Captain Marvel are the big ones now.
Well they still have Thor, and Hulk-but neither of them currently seems to be in any position to lead and are wrapped up in their own shit. Wanda’s evil on and off all the time, it would seem like Strange is the only good choice left.
It is highly likely that he is the leader while they rebuild the roster. Captain America, Black Widow, and Hawkeye have been replaced. Thor and Hulk are still around but being transitioned. Black Panther is being replaced due to tragedy. Spider Man seems to have opted out of the responsibility. Everyone else is too new or too weak.He’s likable and probably in film 2 of his 3 film deal. I’m enjoying his new role, and I look forward to him being the leader until the end of phase 4.
It’s gross AND stupid!
Am I the only person who isn’t into jim playing reed richards. I want someone who can play a cold sociopath who tries to do good but is detached. Give me Glenn howerton
Having seeing it, I can’t believe they destroyed Wanda in the way they did. WandaVision was a surprisingly good examination of grief, and Wanda coming to terms with her grief. This movie supposes none of that character growth happened and she is now a psychotic murder machine. A ridiculously psychotic murderer that was never anywhere close to her characterization before.The movie tries to excuse it by Wanda being influenced by the Darkhold. It shows alternate versions of Strange falling to the influence of the Darkhold. Except they were all in attempts to “save the universe.” Wanda’s use of the Darkhold was portrayed as nothing but paternally selfish. Damn, did she want those kids back, that she invented, that she had already said goodbye to.
That’s only if you buy that the show’s end was her coming to terms with grief and not just deciding that Westview wasn’t worth dealing with all the witches and SWORD agents and rebellious robot husbands anymore now that she had the Darkhold.
It’s marvel, we didnt see her actually die so she probably survived.
I think Wanda had been at peace with saying goodbye to her children, until the end scene of WandaVision where she heard them calling out for help. That’s what instigated Wanda’s multiverse obsession, magnified by the Darkhold effects.
The biggest Easter Egg you missed here is that this is the MCU’s version of Avengers Disassembled, which led to House Of M, then Wanda’s very long redemption arc, which culminated in James Robinson’s 15-issue Scarlet Witch series — after which Marvel screwed the character up all over again.I fully expect the planned solo Scarlet Witch project to be based on the Robinson story.
What planned solo Scarlet Witch project? Olsen said in interviews over the weekend that her contract is done and there’s no current plans for her to return, but that she would return if there was a story she found interesting enough.
That Robinoson series was a gem.
Did anyone mention the 90’s Xmen cartoon theme that played when Professor X showed up?!!
Who was depicted in the statue that Wanda dropped on Maria? I couldn’t tell. Was it Widow? Wouldn’t make a lot of sense because 838 used a different method to defeat Thanos…
none of these are easter eggs though
No mention of the green Minotaur Rintrah?