Family Guy is leaving Adult Swim, the network that saved it, tonight
The entire backlog of the Seth MacFarlane show's reruns will now be making its way to FXX
TV News adult swim
It can be kind of hard to remember this, now that the show is getting ready to air its 20th season on American TV, but Family Guy was not just unpopular, once—it was canceled. In an alternate universe, Seth MacFarlane’s empire-launching animated sitcom never came back from getting kicked off the airwaves by Fox after its third season in 2002, instead languishing only in the memories of people who hang out on message boards, swearing you’ve got to go back and see this one, the baby, he’s so hilarious, he tries to kill the wife.
That alternate universe, presumably, is one where Adult Swim didn’t exist. In conjunction with the early days of the TV-on-DVD phenomenon, the Cartoon Network-adjacent cable network began airing Family Guy reruns in early 2003—where they quickly became the most-watched show on the network, by a pretty comfortable margin. Airing later, and in an environment more in-tune with the show’s not-quite-primetime-in-2003 sensibilities, the show flourished, developing, alongside those mammoth DVD sales, the loyal fanbase that convinced Fox to give the series another shot, bringing it back in 2005. And ever since, Family Guy reruns have been a consistent part of Adult Swim’s line-up—until today, when the last rerun of Family Guy on Adult Swim is now set to air.
That’s because FXX (which, like Family Guy itself, is now owned by Disney, unlike the WarnerMedia-controlled Adult Swim) has just announced a major deal to secure the entirety of the show’s back catalogue, as part of an effort to cement itself as the exclusive cable spot for all the animated sitcoms you used to love on Fox, notably Bob’s Burgers, King Of The Hill, and The Simpsons. (The Cleveland Show will also be there.) (Oh, and Futurama will join them in November; American Dad is presumably tied up in deals with TBS, where it currently airs, and appears to be continuing to appear on [as].) All of which means that tonight’s reruns of Family Guy on Adult Swim—a run of 3 2015 episodes culminating in a reprise of season 13's “Stewie Is Enciente”—will be the final Family Guys to air on Adult Swim, possibly ever. Truly, the ending of an era.
375 Comments
I know it was never “their” show but it is kinda wild seeing it go. I can’t think of an equivalent thing to how prevalent the show has been on the network. I guess the Simpsons on Fox? But even then the Simpsons hasn’t been canceled and revived, and it doesn’t air every single night.
SVU and NCIS on USA and Charmed, Supernatural, and Bones on TNT are pretty close.
Oh, call me an old fogey, but I love me some Law & Order: SVU. Mr.BK actually gets mad when he catches me watching it. I think he thinks it’s like the stereotype about old people never missing Matlock – it means I’m an old lady. Joke’s on him. He just started collecting Social Security, and I keep asking him when he’s joining AARP.
OG > SVU
Yeah, OG was a good solid straight-up procedural. SVU is overheated unintentional camp, at best.
I also like Criminal Intent and the original series. I just can’t get into Organized Crime…I’ve never been a fan of gangsters, wise guys and the whole Godfather thing. I do like the Elliot Stabler character quite a bit, though.
Are we sure it’s unintentional? That “Elliot gets locked up for a few hours” episode is pretty wild.
Yeah. I’m a lawyer and love OG L&O. There are some mistakes, and it’s overly dramatic, and in my DA days I never once remember my boss inviting me to the office late at night for a scotch while he made some poetic philosophical ramblings (looking at you, the great Adam Schiff) but it’s fairly realistic as far as the law goes, unlike 99% of lawyer shows (L&O spin-offs included).
At least NCIS is still running. I believe Charmed has now been on TNT longer than the entire show run. (Charmed ran for 8 seasons and I believe it’s been on TNT for close to 16 years now.)
Unless they’re leaving for hell, and never to come back, I don’t give a damn.Out of my many grievances with that show I will name only one, which is the fact that (at least when I still sometimes caught it on TV years ago) the character of Meg’s suffering, horrible mistreatment, abuse, suicidal and self-harming tendencies and cries for help are all being played for laughs, constantly.And it’s not even that they’re coming up with actual jokes about all of that, those things themselves are being treated as the joke. It is utterly distasteful, deeply cynical, and hateful. For the most part, there’s not even an attempt at being clever with it, and even less so are there any attempts at using these topics that they’re deliberately bringing up again and again to make any kind of meaningful, useful statement about it (I know I know, it’s Family Guy, what am I expecting? But should we just not point out how terrible this is?)The very serious subjects of teenage mental illness, bullying, abuse etc. are simply being used again and again for mere shock value, and for callous assholes at home to laugh at and being given license to not take serious at all.And this is just one of many topics that are being treated with horrible disregard for any semblance of humanity. But this one’s close to my heart, that’s why I felt a strong desire to point it out.
It’s baffling how Family Guy is still able to consistently make the most blatantly stereotypical racist and sexist jokes on prime time TV in 2021. At one point they may have been able to claim they were being meta and calling out that kind of humor but that was 15+ years ago now.
And I just hate how artless it all is. They’re really basically telling you, by abusing the rhythm and beats of comedy, to laugh at really horrible things. Not at JOKES about horrible things, mind you (which is a huge difference), but at the things themselves.I don’t believe those serious topics should be exempt from comedy by any means. But what are you accomplishing by constantly making them the punchline? Especially with that big an audience.I mean, it’s not like other, much funnier shows haven’t managed similar topics quite well, without resorting to the lowest common denominator of jokes.
It’s weird how hack creators treat edgy humour as something easy/lazy, when it’s actually incredibly difficult to get right. It’s like some kinda comedy equivalent to Dunning Kreuger.
Something something manatees
I think I quit watching somewhere in season 3. Sure, it had it’s moments, but you have to put up with all the garbage humor too. Far too much demeaning people for laughs or shock value and never any push back. Racism, infants with sexual desires, children being sexualized by adults and the elderly. Over and over, ad nauseum. It isn’t for me.
I was very fond of all three of those shows, watched them faithfully, and will miss them all (sigh).
Whats the point of any of it, other than to make money and entertain? If it doesn’t entertain you, don’t watch it. That’s the great part about America, if you don’t like something you don’t have to partake in it. If other people do, then as long as it’s there for them to enjoy, they can do just that.
“…especially with that big an audience.”I think you have it backwards, in asking why the show can be so popular while punching so low. The show is popular BECAUSE it punches so low. It is a vulnerable and often shouted-down part of the population who cannot find some at-least-that’s-not-me jokes. Combine that with a general sense of appreciation for the dumb slapstick and pop culture references and you have a recipe for wild success, apparently.
Because nobody gives a crap what the communist thought nazi woke police have to say….Not everything is meant to be offensive, and its entire possible to just not watch something that you do not like the humor of….Hopefully its time for the normal intelligent people to start standing up and slapping these imbecile woke thought nazis back the fuck down under the rocks where they belong…..Woke imbeciles at this point are even worse than the MAGA morons, both need to be placed into rockets and fired into the sun…..Normal people are sick of these low IQ thought nazis and their low IQ group think trying to tell us what can exist and what cannot, or who can exist and who cannot….They’re not heroes, they’re trash
Now that millennials are beginning to enter middle age I think a lot of the current “cancel culture” debate comes down to the fact that we were all raised on South Park/Family Guy-style humor, but while most of us outgrew it, some of us never did, and are angry over the fact that their “ironically” offensive jokes aren’t funny anymore.
South Park at least tries to address it when they do it, Family Guy literally does jokes like “haha Asians are bad at driving! That’s the joke!”
The same reason (but without the talent) that Sunny can. Because the Griffins are THE WORST. They are terrible people.
The show has have made several references to Glen Quagmire’s pervy persona now being watered to the point where he’s essentially superfluous. That’s pretty meta.
It’s a fucking cartoon..triggered much??
When the show ends, I hope Meg gets abducted and tortured , in every way imaginable , by the Tasmanian devil.
This was garbage humor when it came out. Panders to those who love garbage humor, which unfortunately, there seem to be alot of.
Because some shit is just funny regardless. Sure at one point they may have been calling people out, but has family guy ever really been about making a point or teaching a lesson? I mean sure you can teach lessons or make points with what’s done, but at the end of the day, it’s just stories and jokes, some good, some bad, some both in one mix or another. I mean if we’re all so really above racism and the like today, why is it that we can’t just laugh at jokes about those things, about the way things used to be, about if those things still persisted today, the fact that some of those things persist today? And if you’re so stuck up you can’t laugh about it, I ask; what are you doing, other than being a keyboard warrior trying to cancel something, to fix the issues? Sit down. Shut up. Next.
Oh my god it’s distasteful? Are you sure?
WTF do you want from me right now? If you wanna mock me, at least be direct, will you?
I would like to directly mock you.
You’re funny looking and smell bad! How’s that?
Also, Family Guy is (was, I haven’t watched it in five years) funny. You gonna moan about Rick and Morty when they go?
I just took a shower, I smell great. And I’ve been told many times my looks are perfectly adequate.I think among Family Guy’s 500 jokes per minute, there are bound to be a few good ones, through sheer probability math. But that’s not even the problem. Whether or not it’s funny was never really my concern.But I mean, if you’re just going to reduce everything I said down to whatever the fuck that was you just commented at me, I reckon there’s not much I can say that is really going to reach you.And I’m not even going to start arguing about the merits of Rick & Morty over Family Guy. That is a whole other topic.
Yep. I did reduce all of your whingeing to a gag. Comedy is great, ain’t it? Anyway, hope you found a show you like. Ta.
Well then. I’ll consider the point I made about you proven.Also you need not worry, I have plenty of shows I like.
Sure. Ok. Why would I fret about a point made by a homely smelly guy?
I haven’t the faintest idea. I don’t really know why you’re writing any of these comments, what it is you get out of it, and I don’t think I want to find out.
Well, you asked to be mocked directly to your face. I’m helpful like that. Also, I think your concerns about a clearly satirical cartoon about stupid people are misplaced. So I told you even though you didn’t want to know.
Well, I did take pains to pinpoint exactly what bothers me about the way certain things are portrayed, about the framing of the topics at hand and how the jokes (and yes, the satire) are applied to them and why I think the show does a very bad, destructive job of handling the topics at hand (which again, this cartoon “about stupid people” deliberately chose as its subject).I have experienced some of the damage this show can do firsthand, and it’s not difficult to guess that that’s just the tip of the iceberg. It’s real. And this is about real people, and how it contributes to their struggle, and I don’t personally consider that collateral damage.And it’s far from the worst problem in the world. Believe me, I’m not overly fixated on this. I just saw an opportunity to voice some of my frustration I’ve felt in the past because of this silly little cartoon that is watched around the world by millions and millions of people.
One can take great pains to do something and still be unsuccessful. I don’t agree with any of your concerns and find them to be trivial. I agree that the show is silly. I don’t think it shoots very far beyond that. I find it great that the show makes no effort to have it’s characters learn anything or become sympathetic. Capricious jerks…..mhm…that’s the sweetspot.
“One can take great pains to do something and still be unsuccessful.”i.e. my life
Well, if success by measured by getting people like you to actually listen (and I’m not even talking about agreeing with me), then there’s just no being successful, is there?
Clicking the little star thing is the same as “listening”, right?
Much better shows do that so much better though. It’s just lazy.
Jesus Christ, shut the fuck up.
It’s too early on a Sunday to be this mad about a flip entertainment site comment, bud. So…suck it.
I’m guessing your problem is that you cannot, in fact get anyone to suck anything attached to you, which is why you have to insult people on the internet who you’ll never meet while rubbing out your sad little orgasms by yourself.
This is hilarious when you’re mad enough to leave a million comments about someone not liking a TV show you like
Indeed, so why are you so triggered?
Indeed! Let us all suck it!
I think this show is great, and those who don’t think it’s great are missing it’s greatness
You know what’s great about this show? It’s hilarious use of flashbacks and asides!
“You know what’s great about this show? It’s hilarious use of flashbacks and asides”Is that you, Tim Heidecker?
I guess, if I had a detracting thought about this show, it would be there aren’t far more seasons of it doing the exact same thing episode to episode!
I can’t get at his comment, cuz KINJA. But I see recognitions has been sent to the Greys. Who got hip to him, and when? Anyway, recognitions. I couldn’t give a shit about Family Guy. I just happened to notice that Shultz asked to be directly mocked. The rest was just gravy cuz he immediately responded every time with self important musings. Sorta like you, bud.
No more self-important than you, buddy.
AhHHHhHH!! Ya got me in the feels! Hoist on my own petard! The humanity!
You know, as a rule, I try to never insult people on purpose. You will probably be beyond pleased to learn that with you, in this thread, I’ve been very much tempted to break that rule maybe 2 or 3 times.
It’s good that you show such restraint, and stick to passive aggression instead. I am, indeed, pleased. I’m going to write it in my diary right now.“Dear Diary, Old Man Shultz didn’t insult me today, though he totally wanted to! Also, a flip comment turned into a huge back and forth on an insubstantial comments section! This is better than when I got my picture in the yearbook!” *heart *heart *smiley face *party horn
I am rubber, you are glue.
Now you’re gettin’ it.
I wonder, do you ever think, hey, maybe I could just be nice about this right now?
Bud, you started this thread by wishing the makers of a show you don’t like to HELL. I would say that’s a little cold, no?
If you believe in hell, I suppose it is. Family Guy doesn’t strike me as a show written by people who do, though.And considering how disrespectfully, in my opinion, they have handled topics that are closely related to some struggles of my own (or otherwise friends of mine), one little “go to hell” is hardly improper.
Poking fun at your comment waaaay back there, ain’t improper either. Should they have called you to find out about your struggles? It’s satire. Stupid satire? Yes. But satire. Your criticism of the show, such as it is, is frail. Comedy is supposed to tweak things we hold sacrosanct. So, shall we continue? What else ya got?
Yeah, I’m good. I generally don’t mind talking to people who disagree with me, as long as they are still reasonably respectful. But you are not someone I want to talk to about anything at all any longer. You just wanna be a little stinker. Which is fine, if that’s what you wanna do, but I’m done engaging. Bye!
Whu…? Mike Drop!? And me all unawares and flat footed! I think I’ll just slump my shoulders forward and leave this empty, shadowy auditorium. Good Night Everybody!
And with, the qualifiers for the Douchebag Olympics concluded.
So you admit to being a troll? What a pathetic reflection on who you are.
I’m stung. I immediately regret all the previous posts. Oh woe.
I think Castigere is one of those folks who only get a boner reductively insulting other people on the internet over nothing.
Their handle also indicates that they are likely into chastizing or castigating others as a hobby (so, you know, a sadist), and/or, think themselves like unto a paladin from World of Warcraft.Either way, they’re prolly rubbing one out with one hand as they type cheap, poorly thought-out barbs with the other.But you keep on keepin’ on, Old Man Schultz. Your comments are giving me life—for real, no sarcasm.
Family Guy sucks, and I hate that something so hateful is going into its 20th season.
What are you, 12? How embarrassing.
I, for one, find your criticism of the show very valid — and this is coming from someone who used to love Family Guy/South Park, and “edgy” humor in general.
Even if it wasn’t racist/sexist/et all, it’s still not funny. It’s incredibly lame, sorry dude. The jokes are hackneyed at best and just straight up anti-humor at worst. So yeah, maybe you just have really bad taste.
If Family Guy is so well written, brilliant and funny, why did you stop watching it?
You are being mocked. Better?
The Time is NOW Old Man.
He should take a look at your life. He might discover he’s a lot like you.
The “old man yells at clouds” meme is Simpsons, dummy.
It’s a cartoon. Your pearl clutching is ridiculous.
Ok I’ll do it. We’ve passed the point where you don’t understand the show. We are at the point of you outright refusing to get it. Pack your shit and get out.
We’d like you quit being so dramatic and quit blowing our buzz.
…….. Shut up Meg.
Brilliant material!
Lol 😂
It’s no more than that, that’s the problem. Edgelord humor that people grow out of past 21.
pretty sure
They even went out of their way to make an episode that essentially justifies the family’s treatment of her, in a “she’s just as fucked up as the rest of the family” is type of way.
I’m pretty sure the episode where one of the character’s father transitions and then subsequently sleeps with the dog, and the dog is the one repulsed is among the absolute worst instances of transphobia on a “comedy” show.
And yet, you wrote a novel in response to it’s moving. Nice bit of apathy there, Sport.
I want to respond to a comment by Julia Q. but Kinja won’t display it for me (safe for the preview):Christ, yes, I had wiped that episode from my memory… or so I thought. Thanks for the reminder (that thanks is half sincere and half ironic). Yes. That hate crime of an episode is a strong contender for the most horrible thing they have done. And that is, uh, quite an achievement. (For everyone else, since “the transphobic episode” probably doesn’t narrow it down, I looked it up, it’s called “Quagmire’s Dad”. Those who have had the displeasure of seeing it will probably remember what it’s about.)
It might not count since Fox never actually aired the scenes in question, but there is a much worse episode out there. If you haven’t seen the scenes with Quagmire and Marge Simpson…you can probably find them on YouTube, but why would you want that? That is a terrible thing to want to see.
i was a suicidal teen when this aired. The Meg shit never affected me because it’s a fucking cartoon. I’ve said it before; a lot more people have opinions on suicide and related content than they do with ACTUAL suicide. Might be coming from a good place i guess, but you don’t get to be offended on my behalf.
Just shut up
Yet another person I would like to respond to (but can’t because Kinja won’t let me) said they were a suicidal teen and not to get offended on their behalf… I want you to know I’m not. I speak from my own experience.I’m glad it wasn’t an issue for you, but I, myself flirting with death for most of my life, was very shook by a lot of those scenes. Many times over, even, because I was a stupid teenager of course, and it took me a long time to learn not to subject myself to that.But I’m not only speaking about the direct effect on someone like you or me, I’m also speaking about how certain subjects become nothing but a laughing matter to many people who maybe aren’t the brightest who watch the shit out of that show. People who you might end up having to deal with at school or at work. I believe that it’s a very bad thing to put that out into the world and that it does a lot of damage.Peace.
‘I believe that it’s a very bad thing to put that out into the world and that it does a lot of damage.’
To any actual progressive who cares about protecting artistic expression and battling dangerous levels of repression and ‘moral’ orthodoxy in society, these are chilling words.
You must have skipped over many of the details of what I wrote to make it fit your melodramatic point of view.
nope. think i pretty much nailed it.
Well noted sir.
I’m also speaking about how certain subjects become nothing but a laughing matter to many people who maybe aren’t the brightest who watch the shit out of that show.
devil’s advocate: have you actually met anyone like that? i have yet to encounter someone who didn’t see a Meg joke, and though they laughed or said “dammit Meg!”, didn’t have some partial, “that’s kinda messed up”. i mean, as callous and uncreative as those jokes may be, they got us talking about the topic.
Lighten up, Francis.
If you watched the show regularly you would know that even IN THE SHOW those are just jokes. They have shown repeatedly that even Peter full on loves Meg just any father would love their daughter. People like you throwing bitch-fits about the jokes is why they exist… If it didnt twist your panties, they wouldnt make the jokes.And, FWIW, if a topic that could potentially be triggering can never be joked about, would you mind providing me a list of the topics that ARE safe to joke about? If you can come up with a list larger than 5 items that I cannot dispute, Ill give you a prize.
For the most part, there’s not even an attempt at being clever with it, That basically describes Family Guy for about the last 10 years at least.
It’s like when Ren & Stimpy became essentially only gross-out humor. I stopped watching. Fortunately there’s plenty of other things to watch.
Yeah, maybe I’m nostalgic but the pre-cancellation Family Guy seemed much better, whereas when they ran out of ideas 10-15 years ago it just became all of its worst impulses without the good humor to save it.
It’s a fucking CARTOON..lighten up Fransis
It’s no-holds-barred comedy, It’s not meant to be taken seriously.
Whenever I see a Family Guy post I know there’ll be one of you.
Try re-reading what you just wrote but play it in your head as Peter Griffin .. it’s hilarious.
Imagine being so brittle you get hurt over crude and dark humor lmao, yeah imean i get family guy isnt a show for everyone, its humor is often dry and the cutaways are excessive (these are all things they’ve been made fun of for plenty of times) but literally you’re crying over “oh no! meg is abused” lmfao do you also cry and shit your pants whenever homer strangles his son? or literally when any episode of south park airs? they arent the first ones to do this kinda stuff and they arent the only ones who do it, and the thing is its COMPLETELY FINE because unlike you and alot of people like you- the main people who watch it are aware that its literally a CARTOON, its humor is worth less than a grain of table salt 😂 literally rick and morty entertained the idea of a toxic relationship until recently and no one cared, no one even said anything when they got back together for the season finale either. literally people like you think its a big deal when its only a big deal to you all who MAKE it a big deal, cause its literally not, but im not saying you cant hate the show or rant about it- its America pal, do whatever the fuck ya want, freedom of speech & freedom of expression n all that fancy jazz- but just keep in mind you’re literally complaining about an adult cartoon, made for adults…did i mention its also a CARTOON? go watch disney channel or cartoon network if it offends you so much lmao tons of kid friendly channels that might suit your interests, and you dont even really have to look hard for em.
Then maybe, it’s just not for you. Amazing, i know to think that everything in the whole wide world isn’t curated specifically for your individual, and very special tastes, but that’s actually how most things are.
Meg’s character is flipping one of the longest running cliched tropes in TV, no matter how fucked up or disgusting the rest of any TV family may be, the daughter, usually teenage daughter is above them all. She’s popular, confident, well adjusted, and just all around FUCKABLE. Maybe she’s smart, or maybe she’s vapid and shallow. Story arcs are limited to clothing, makeup, boys and the ever present moral rationalizing surrounding sex. Regardless of the details, they are almost always 1 dimensional, their problems and character flaws are superficial, and they’re always treated like a princess.
In fact that’s more or less how meg was portrayed in the first few seasons before the show was originally canceled, and the character sucked.
But teenage girls are….well teenage girls. They’re every bit as damaged, disgusting and fucked up as everyone else, and a Cartoon actually acknowledges this fact. It’s like every other topic that people like you get their panties in a bunch over, shining a light on the absurdity of common societal issues, that simply aren’t discussed in polite conversation.
The fact that they aren’t acknowledged, much less discussed means that these idiotic, destructive views continue to exist, unchecked.
Which has kind of been a problem, and it’s one that’s getting stupidly worse as, again, people like you, try to equate their own offense, and interpretation as being the actual intent of the content.
Out of my many grievances with that show I will name only one, which is
the fact that (at least when I still sometimes caught it on TV years ago) the character of Meg’s suffering, horrible mistreatment, abuse, suicidal and self-harming tendencies and cries for help are all being played for laughs, constantly.
Remember that one time stewie traveled into the future and the punchline was “meg is trans”? Sure was a super funny subplot!
Its a show you ignorant weeb. Your problem is you take it too seriously. your probably someone who doesn’t have any real friends because you cant make fun of each others shit and laugh and know deep down you really care and yall will always be there for eachother because you could always be yourselves around each other. You think a show means that everyone who makes it doesn’t take the issues seriously and never watched enuff episodes to see meg actually be a badass and that there’s a message to understand. But i guess if you don’t have the intelligence to understand family guy it would be wasted on you.
My God, so many insults, so much aggression in the greys. You guys, it’s okay for you to disagree with me. I’m not mad at that. But why make all those assumptions about my person (wrong across the board, by the way) based on such a scarcity of information? Why feel the need to attack me personally at all?
If I’m so brittle, then what does that make you? What with the getting mad at my criticisms (the nuances of which you seem all too eager to ignore), and the apparent inability to object without being hostile? Like, what purpose does all of that serve? Ask yourselves that, please, just for a moment.
I can’t watch this show for all of the reasons you stated, plus Quagmire, the “fun” serial sexual predator.
It does seem like we’re entering an era of culture where comedy is drastically changing, as whatever ails or disadvantages anyone must be treated with full compassion and there is no room for laughter, mockery or levity. It’s not hard to envision a situation in which people maintain a serious face in public and wait until they’re locked in their bedrooms at night, watching old sitcoms and laughing at jokes about fat people or whatever.
I’m not quite sure what your point is, but I most definitely specifically said it’s not the fact that jokes are being made about certain things that is the problem to me, it’s the fact that things are being made the entire joke. Not so much the what but the how. You know?
You’re basically equating a stronger emphasis on being mindful of the realities of people for whom life is a constant struggle with the death of humor, which to me is nonsensical. Even if they were to completely disappear (which I don’t believe and don’t advocate for), jokes about various ailments and disadvantages are not and have never been the sole pillar of humor. In fact, they make up a small percentage of topics.They’re not going to disappear though. And neither is laughter. And neither is comedy, because why would it? It’s simply doing what it’s always, always, always done, which is changing with the times.
it’s not the fact that jokes are being made about certain things that is the problem to me, it’s the fact that things are being made the entire joke.
I do think, in fairness, that is in the eye of the viewer. Family Guy may fairly be accused of allowing their jokes to be too easily interpreted that way, and in some cases they may be explicitly so, but I never read them that way, personally. Macfarlane is a progressive, after all.BTW, there was actually an episode where Meg broke the fourth wall and called out the family on their mental abuse of her.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seahorse_Seashell_Party
I don’t agree with that. It’s not just in the eye of the viewer. I distinctly remember the rhythms of comedy being used, again and again, to use abuse and mental illness and such as the punchline. That is a very specific way they framed those things.Yeah, I faintly remember there being an episode or two in which this is adressed. Unfortunately that doesn’t undo anything. One episode (is it the one you referenced?), as I recall, even ended with Meg being persuaded to choose to go back to the role of punching bag of the family, the message being that she has to do so to preserve the family dynamic. Which… yikes.(Thank you, by the way, for expressing your disagreement in a civil way. You can believe me, it is very much appreciated.)
Actually, that episode is a good example of how it’s open to interpretation, because you’re right, Meg did go back to being the punching bag and then what happened? Everyone except Meg is blown away in the hurricane. That seems to me like an obvious analogy for their abuse of her coming back around to them in the end.Also, that episode was directly followed by one where they find out Quagmire has a sister with a physically abusive boyfriend, and they all team up to murder him.
Yeah, stuff like that is sprinkled in here and there. I mean, the writers are not just a group of monsters. But I think there’s a pervasive problem with that show where they just don’t know when to stop. For every episode that adresses these things in a more “grownup” (for lack of a better word) way, there’s maybe up to several seasons’ worth of the opposite. Not good enough, in my book.And since you mention Quagmire… you mean the hilarious rapist? Yeah, one episode where he does “the right thing” or whatever doesn’t make up for all of that either.I will say this one thing on behalf of Family Guy, once in a blue moon they will let somebody write a episode who actually seems to consider these things.But still, not good enough.
“Wahhh wahhhh I don’t get to make fun of fat people! Wahhh wahhhh! COMEDY IS RUINED FOREVER!!”
I just remain skeptical that everyone is so high-minded, especially in private while watching old comedy shows.
There’s a difference between sometimes relapsing into bad habits that you otherwise actively strive to overcome, and outright advocating that said habits are not bad at all, and even good. You’re being disingenuous.
And you’re the one who gets to decide what’s a ‘bad’ habit and what isn’t, are you?
Laughing at people for who they are is bad. This is so basic you learned it in fucking kindergarten.But hey, having any morals at all makes you an authoritarian because you think there are limits to what behavior is acceptable, am I right?What’s next, “‘murder should be illegal’ is just an opinion, and anyone trying to control my behavior is a authoritarian”? In that case, you’re still free to disagree and 99% of normal rational human beings are free to call you a piece of garbage for thinking otherwise.
Slippery slope fallacy. Anecdotal fallacy. Strawmen. Anything else you care to try, Senator McCarthy? Or are you too busy playing arbiter of what you believe ‘should’ or ‘shouldn’t’ be permitted for consumption, instead of minding your own goddamn business and changing the channel?
Pushing for narrow moral orthodoxy and making choices of your own design for other adults isn’t morality and never will be. There are absolutely limits to what is acceptable in society. But ‘I don’t like that TV show so no one else should be permitted to see it!’ doesn’t remotely count.
And nice swing and a miss at the end there, too, raising the specter of actual free speech to defend you playing Mary Whitehouse with other peoples’ entertainment choices. Keep clutching those scandalized pearls!
Damn, you were so triggered and offended by my comment that you needed to reply to it 4 months later? Get a life, snowflake.
Yeah you checked off all the necessary buzzwords as ordered, I guess, and with no actual response to anything I’ve said. Seems about right. I commented again on a lark, having not logged in since then. You took the time to respond. Speaks volumes.
You took the time to respond. Speaks volumes.
Unlike you?What’s it like to be a pathetically insecure dipshit?I don’t argue with dipshits. You only end up covered in shit.
yawn
Goddamn, you’re still triggered about this a month later? You took the time to respond. Speaks volumes.
Lol shutup
Yeah!
Fat people, women, homasexshuls…it’s all off the table! What’s left? What’s funny now?!
Why can’t you make fun of fat people? It’s not a fixed identity like being black or gay, you can change this “identity” by taking the stairs or a walk instead of a car…that’s not an identity, it’s a flaw on the person’s part that they’re not taking car of themselves. You wouldn’t accept heroin addicts as an identity that should be treated sensitively, don’t treat food addicts that way either.
There’s nothing more frightening than ‘progressives’ who want to return us to 50s/HUAC-era repression because they think that’ll somehow ‘fix’ all the inequality and injustice in the world. Sure, having rigid orthodoxies of ‘acceptable’ expression just SCREAMS progressive and left, doesn’t it?
But expressing your opinion is still okay right? And it’s still okay to have qualms with how a show/movie/book handles certain topics right? Literally nobody’s arguing for censorship. And I have no plans to violently implement my opinions as law, whatsoever. And I have no desire for that to happen. All I’m doing is expressing it in some trivial comment section, and people keep conjuring up some orwellian dystopia. Chill.
As always, people like him try to shout down progressives by projecting their own intolerance onto us. HE is the one trying to shut YOU up by baselessly accusing you of being an authoritarian. Projection is the number 1 tactic of the right these days.
Yes, that is true. I’ve been encountering that a lot recently, both online and irl. Somehow conflating someone having a different opinion with them trying to censor you, or something along those lines.It’s certainly convenient, if you overly attach your identity to your point of view and never even want to consider that someone you disagree with might have a valid point.
Well they’re should be more jokes about fat people…especially fat women
You do understand however that Family Guy is a lesser quality showing doing the same joke being told by other shows?
I’m not saying you don’t have a point, everyone has a limit to what they can pass…but I feel like there are plenty of shows, that are newer and popular, that have earned your comment far more than played out FG.
Shut up, Meg!
i don’t really believe you are this affected by a TV show. i think this is just the way you have to spice up just not liking something these days.
“I don’t like a comedy show for being comedic about a subject I’m sensitive to”-yawn
Omg… To be able to laugh at problematic things – it is an important character of human. People survived so many disasters, genocide, and others with the ability to laugh. Specially if it is not a real problem, like HIV. People who survived in Nazi concentration camps will never understand young crying people suffering from emotional stresses and depression. Just find hard work and you forget psychological problems.
it’s interesting that you’re so deeply unable to see the difference between laughing at a joke in a literal cartoon and how one feels about an issue. you act as if everyone who’s ever laughed at this show MUST be an absolute heartless demon in their private life, full stop. that sort of binary, black and white view of nuance and very human complexities is frighteningly naive. no, not everyone who laughs at the stupid cartoon is just an absolute monster. a child thinks such things, adults know more about how messy human nature is. you’d rather picture EVERYONE who laughs at something ‘offensive’ as caricatures of monsters, and that’s so out of touch with reality and human nature that it’s terrifying and dangerous.
Yet the show stays on for decades, what does that tell you about the state of people in the West (ie, it’s not good). But disagree that the worst thing about it is the depiction of Meg. That worst imo is the violence against children they casually make fun of. By far the worst character is Herbert, a walking child molester stereotype. Why they’re still permitted to get away with this post-metoo must mean Seth McFarlane has a lot of supporters, and how they’re going to continue to get away with that kind of stuff on a Disney owned channel (the biggest marketer of children’s entertainment in the world) will be curious to put it lightly 🤷🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
Fun fact: Family Guy Season 4 was already in production
before Fox decided to renew it. If Fox declined, the show would have
moved to Adult Swim permanently.
Also, American Dad
is staying on TBS because they’re funding the show directly. I don’t
know if the show will move back under Disney control once TBS decides to
stop making episodes, but until then they’re TBS property.
American Dad is and always will be the far, far superior show in every way. Honestly, it has only gotten better since moving to TBS.
It bugs the hell out of me that people just call it a Family Guy knockoff, they completely dropped cutaway gags before the first season even ended.
I think that impression is based entirely on the first season, and I was definitely one of those people.
To be fair, just about every cartoon show, save for maybe Futurama, has a fairly rocky first season.
Yeah the first few seasons are pretty rough (the first especially) but it gets soooo much better once they ease off on the right wing/left wing politics and just focus on the various family pairings.
See, that’s what I loved about it. When Haley accidentally shoots Stan at a gun show and he says “Now, I’m not pointing fingers… because I can’t… because you shot me.”
I think people just gave up on it after the first 3 episodes, where it came off as a show Brian wrote (I guess he kind of did) and the characters were gimmicky
I suppose I shouldn’t really judge since I actively hated the first episode as it aired, but it didn’t take long before it got consistently better than Family Guy was at its absolute peak.
I don’t think I agree with that second sentence (seasons 4-7 are the absolute peak of the show, and possibly of its style of animated comedy ever) but the first sentence, a thousand percent.
Interesting, I found the earliest seasons the best and lost interest around then. It seems like there’s a lot of disagreement when it comes to the best era of American Dad.
The American Dad “Apocalypse” episode was brilliant. And their Christmas episodes are always fantastic. The fact that they do capsule episodes that play around with genres or where everybody dies is pretty daring, too – somebody ends up in Heaven, then the next episode continues as if nothing happened. The entire episode “Hot Tub of Love” is amazing, music included.One thing I can say about both Family Guy and American Dad is that when they do musical numbers, they absolutely kill it. I still catch myself singing “Christmas Time is Killing Us” and “All I Really Want for Christmas” from Family Guy.
The episode where Jeff gets abducted and has a potential spinoff moment with Sinbad’s ghost was a moment of pure artistry. I love American Dad, it’s not 100% on all the time, but it’s far superior to Family Guy and friends.
I mean, Roger, hello?
–
I go around sometimes, saying,
“I’ve got big things going on, BIG THINGS!”
–
Futurama better than SimpsonsAmerican Dad better than Family Guy
Worth it alone for Principal Lewis and Bullock.ARRRRGH, damn kids! Sometime I think should’ve just stayed in Peru, moving coke. Machada was a cold bastard – but he was good to his men! And once you drew blood for him…you were SET. Hooch. Blow. Girls – not women! GIRLS. Little bitty things…
I kinda miss Hayley being the smarter voice of reason, rather than the loser stoner chick she is nowadays.
I think AV Club did a few pieces on this, but American Dad actually became a much better show AFTER Seth MacFarlane left the writers room.
Lol bull. American Dad can’t hold a candle to the kind of legacy and notoriety that Family Guy has. Family Guy still has the spine to make fun of certain things that everyone else is too cowardly to touch. American Dad is timid and weak by comparison.
Of course this will all be moot when Disney inevitably purchases TBS in 2023.
I feel like we’re going to have a Demolition Man Taco Bell moment in the not too-distant future, when all movie and TV studios are Disney.
Oh god, Warner Bros. Discovery, don’t let it happen…
100% Aside from Bob’s it probably gets the most watches and rewatches from me, so far as current animation goes. This season has had a few middling episodes, but still a far cry better than whatever FG must be putting out. I watched that inconsistently until an episode that was something about Quagmire’s sister getting abused by her husband so the gang take him to the woods and murder him? Something like that. I could not have been smiling less, that shit was dark. Anyway I quit cold turkey after that.I sometimes wonder what if I went back and watched some “classic” episodes, see if they hold up, but frankly I’m just not interested at all.
American Dad is hilarious, and it only gets funnier the longer it’s on. My favorite recent episode is when Stan makes a wish on a star to be single, then learns his lesson and is transported back to another, completely different family that he apparently didn’t appreciate so he was saddled with his American Dad family to learn that lesson. I love the wacked out, experimental stuff they try. It doesn’t always land, but it’s always amusing when they try. Also, pulling back on Klaus being a pervert and just making him suck was wonderful.
Cool. On those nights I toss on Cartoon Network to help me fall asleep, this fucking show won’t be in the rotation.
Right. Same with the god awful Cleveland Show.
Cleveland Show hasn’t been on the network for years.
Well then, my job is done.
My go to is Golden Girl’s and MST3K. Since I’ve seen them so many times I’m not missing anything when I fall asleep
I can’t fall asleep unless a Rifftrax is playing quietly on my tablet beside me. Glad to not be alone in this totally normal thing.
I can’t agree with GG, but MST3K is always my go to on Netflix (or even YT, since Netflix can’t figure it out sometimes). I was an early teen when the Comedy Channel started airing MST3K and that it aired opposite my other already established monster/bad film two hours on Saturdays it was a tough choice, but MST won out over Sup’s Up! on WUAB. Noon to two was a hard bargain with my dad, because he wanted the lawn mowed, but I bargained with him to the point where he would watch MST with me, and then boot me out the door to get the grass done as soon as 2:00 hit. I think we both got what we wanted and then some.
I usually do MST3K or Bob’s Burgers for sleepy time myself.
MST3k always feels weird not being able to see what they are referencing. My wife and I listen to Home Movies or Dr. Katz, which both barely have any animation-specific gags or beats.Bob’s Burgers will probably join that rotation in a few years, once we have re-watched it a few times so the visuals are burned into our heads (which would make it THREE Jon Benjamin starring shows that Loren Bouchard worked on or created that we go to sleep to!).
I’ve long felt Bob’s Burgers can frequently (but not always) exist in an audio-only format. The vast majority of the show’s humor relies on verbal interactions.
Thought you might be an MST3K fan. But that might be because I tend to read your name incorrectly as “TrumpyTears” (yes, also omitting an “r” in the 2nd word), so it always makes me think of Pod People.
Yeah I’ve been a huge MST3k fan since ‘97-98, and for the last year or two the Pluto TV rifftrax and MST channels have been my daily background noise. At one point I did consider an MST3k-related username (Rex Dart, Eskimo Spy!), but ultimately decided to stick with my incredibly obscure reference to a background gag in Tom Goes to the Mayor (which approximately one or two commenters a year recognize and are delighted by).
Woah, it’s weird to see an extremely specific parallel in a stranger. I used to fall asleep to Home Movies every night, I’ve since moved on to Bob’s Burgers. I’m happy to inform present-you on behalf of future-you that it works just as well.
Yeah I just have playlists on my PC that I put on shuffle. Don’t have to pay attention because I can basically see it play out when I close my eyes.
Yeah, those are good choices. Even if you can’t fall asleep, you’re entertained.
Ditto people who leave the TV on in the background while they make amateur porn. You’d be surprised how often 20-somethings who record themselves boning have Family Guy playing in the background (and a cat visible in the frame).
Hahaha! Thats so true….Or so I’m told. *Ahem*
I can’t wait for season 3 of The Orville, a show McFarlane actually cares about and enjoys doing. He long ago gave up creative input on the animated shows, so I don’t blame him for FG’s descent into nihilism and hating its own audience.
Also looking forward to more Orville since they seemed to really find their footing between being a comedy that pokes fun of TNG while still being a love letter to it.It is wild that him not caring about the writing on Family Guy made it worse when him dropping all creative input on American Dad is what helped the show really shine.
It is wild that him not caring about the writing on Family Guy made it worse when him dropping all creative input on American Dad is what helped the show really shine.I guess it comes down to what kind of team takes the reins. Seems plausible that Macfarlane had a clear vision for Family Guy, but the people he left it with didn’t and just tried to (poorly) copy what had come before. Conversely, might be MacFarlane was holding back American Dad cause he was too stuck in his style, and then left it with a team that had their own vision to let it grow.
All just speculation though.
I think the AD issue was, he started that show to replace FG after it was cancelled. SO it was more or less a bad impersonation. Then, when FG got resurrected the guys now in charge of AD got to do whatever they want, basically. Actually I’d bet they were told to actively make it LESS like FG, since… ya know… they already have that.
My theory has been that the American Dad team was responsible for holding MacFarlane back from his worst impulses on Family Guy before it was canceled. Then they just never came back when it was revived because they were busy with American Dad.
That’s probably not far off. Barker and Weitzman (who were the real creators of American Dad) were writers and producers during the first 3 seasons of Family Guy and seemed to be part of the crew that was a lot more interested in poking fun at TV show tropes and doing musical numbers than the “frat boy nihilism” and constant cutaways that FG started leaning in to. Without them FG definitely went a different direction.I’m not sure how much of the other writers were part of the FG writing room at the start, but they definitely ended up with an insanely talented writing staff once Barker and Weitzman were in full control. If nothing else their input on writers to hire seemed get a much higher caliber of writer than FG got.
I just watched Lower Decks for the first time, assuming it was more of a kid friendly show than it’s actually turned out to be, but what I found weird was my biggest takeaway is: it’s somehow more Family Guy Star Trek than the actual Family Guy Star Trek show is lol.
I love Lower Decks. It has fun with the Star Trek tropes, without actually mocking them.
What I find crazy is that it’s considered canon. They poke an awful lot of holes in the story for the sake of a joke, but then like…it’s also real?Like it’s somehow now canon that Miles O’Brien is the most important person in the history of Starfleet or that Spock got kicked out of a conference and got drunk at a dive bar lol.
I thought that it wasn’t that Spock was kicked out, but that he wasn’t important enough to get in in the first place, but that they, like Boimler and Mariner, tried to get in, but they failed.
I mean Colm Meany’s response to the O’Brien statute was “About damn time”. also how many dive bars have fake stories about so and so famous person who was there? I mean alien Jennifer Lewis probably carved that into her own bar to take advantage of all the down and out Starfleet officers who tried and failed to crash that annual party. I think Lower Decks fully embraces the absolutely bat-shit insane plots that have happened over the past 55 years. Lower decks is basically plastering over the 5 decades of plot-holes left over. Which ironically is the exact kid of mission the Cerritos would be sent on.
The bartender did say Kirk did most of the drinking, though.
Lower Decks is the universe balancing itself. Seth MacFarlane made a half-assed Star Trek show, so Star Trek went and made a half-assed Seth MacFarlane show.
American Dad 🤦🏻♂️🤮
I’ve never wanted a show to be better than the Orville, the first season is… A bit rough, because I got the impression that even the cast hated the jokes.
I mean according to legend the jokes were only there so Fox would greenlight the show and think it different enough from Star Trek TNG to make it past legal. It’s space drama in it’s own right that has jokes in it to appease the powers that be.
That makes some sense. I remember when it was first marketed, I avoided The Orville because it looked like it was just crude parody. They did them selves a disservice painting the show with that broad comedy brush. People who would of loved the show ended up avoiding it, and people excited about it were disappointed.
Yeah, the main reason Seth hasn’t walked away entirely was to strongarm FOX into okaying his side projects, remember, he got FOX to air Cosmos, a science program, in Prime Time.But he’s got his Universal deal, and Disney is the one paying him for FG now, so he has no need for Fox.
Are they DOING The Orville S3? I didn’t know that. It’s a pretty good show that seems to love the show it’s….Spoofing? …Sending up?….Referencing?
It’s a love letter to classic Star Trek, with writing that is surprisingly grounded. Out of all of Seth’s work, I think this show is the only one that feels like it’s got heart in it. There are still some of those ‘juvenile to the point of cringe’ throughlines, like consantly bashing his ex for cheating on him (which gets old REALLY fucking fast), but I ended up falling in love with the cast by the end of the first season.
Covid 19 shut down season 3 early in pre-production. Despite being produced at roughly the same time as Season 3 of tar Trek Discovery Season 3 of Orville wasn’t able to get everyone underway until much much later.
Honestly I can wait for it. I kinda wish someone would just give Seth a serious Star Trek show to show run instead. I wanted Orville to be silly Star Trek but it veers away from that way to often. I get my sci-fi comedy kicks from Lowers Decks these days
Thank you! Nobody believes me that The Orville is good! It’s good! It’s weird that that’s true, but it is!
No. It isn’t good.
Every show you’re watching is probably nihilistic, whether you or the makers of it are conscious of it or not
Heh, yeah. That’s Bob’s Burgers alright!
I could listen to H. Jon Benjamin’s voice all day though. It wouldn’t matter what he’s saying, it’s just so hypnotic.
Oh man that’s hilarious. I still remember the scene with him and Chris talking about movies, and Chris says “How does Michael Bay Keep Getting WORK???”Damn near fell off my chair.
He’s no Welker
Frank Welker replaced Leonard Nimoy’s voice twice. H. Jon Benjamin can never claim that and will for ever be in his shadow.
I literally watch Bob’s Burgers and Archer to help me sleep. H. Jon Benjamin’s voice is just that soothing.
I often wondered about him after Dr Katz went off the air. Didn’t know about Home Movies
Not really, no.
How dare you, the violence in Bob’s Burgers is always laden with meaning
I just recently found that guy on YouTube. Pretty funny Scotsman, sez I.
Well now I’m down that rabbit hole. Pretty funny guy.
He’s actually from the North East of England…
My mistake. Thanks for the correction. I’ve watched that one ten times, too. I come from a land where umbrellas are ALSO considered garbage tools.
I openly admit I came here to post that if nobody else had beaten me to it.
This garbage is still on the air?
What’s funny is I was one of those guys who signed an online petition in hopes of bringing Family Guy back when it was cancelled but when it did eventually return, I checked out after about 2 more seasons.
So what you’re saying is, we can put 100% of the blame on you for bringing Family Guy back?
Same here. When I saw “20 seasons,” I realized I’ve mostly avoided it for 14ish years now.
My dad “showed” me Family Guy and asked, “Isn’t this HILARIOUS?!”That was 15 years ago.
I’m not loving the ease with which you just confessed to that, buster!
You dipped out around the right time though. The show was still pretty good when it came back but had a sharp decline somewhere in the 07 to 10 range. It then somehow managed to find an endless bottom throughout the 2010s up to today
Bingo. Same as South Park, it became unwatchable after 2008 for me.
I was also among the people who thought it was cool before it came back… in my defense I was 15. When it actually did come back my interest disappeared overnight and I find the damn thing entirely loathsome now.I do wonder, was this 100% just a matter of me having worse taste as a teenager? Or were those first three seasons actually better than what came after? Or was the simple fact that it was run into the ground by future seasons the bigger culprit? Or maybe I just liked the forbidden fruit of liking a show that the normie masses couldn’t handle? Maybe mix of all that.
Tbh, I don’t think any show should go for more than 5 or 6 seasons. They’ve typically run their course and worn out their welcome because everything after that is just desperate filler. All the good stories have been told.
The first seasons were objectively better, for sure. Watch them back, they still hold up.
The first three seasons (and even season 4) are pretty good. The show just got ridiculously lazy at a certain point, and became bottom of the barrel garbage.
Is this in regards to Family Guy? There were a couple episodes in S5 that were still good, like the one where Meg needs a car and Peter buys a tank instead. But generally yeah, it was a quick downhill slide after the return from cancellation.
Yeah, I’m referring to Family Guy. S4 is probably the best season of Family Guy.
Not saying it was ever going to be a transcendent work of art or anything, but it still had the ability to be quite decent. Instead….wow.
Objectivrly better pfff no they weren’t
LOL, what’s it like being retarded and having no sense of humor? Must suck. That explains why you troll these comments sections shit-talking to yourself in the greys. Get a life, loser. Or at least a job. Maybe a shower, too.
The creators took the worst lessons from its late-coming popularity and early meme-like qualities. “oh people like the random cutaways and being mean to Meg, let’s increase those by 1000 percent!”I was super happy when it came back, and watched for at least a few more years and then just realized it had become tiresome. Thankfully that was right around when American Dad had fully transitioned from “Family Guy with a half-thought out political or government angle and an alien stuck in the attic” to “fucking insane show where Roger can be anything they want and plots and jokes can get super weird,” so I just started looking forward to American Dad and stopped watching Family Guy.I also feel like when Futurama came back they had the same issue with over doing what fans liked and remembered after it was cancelled. Family Guy became too cynical and mean and leaned on repetitive jokes, Futurama started becoming too saccharine and kept trying to hit emotional beats that were initially memorable because they were so few and far between. I did watch Futurama to the end, but I have never felt the need to re-watch any of the zombie seasons (whereas I watched the initial seasons at least 10 times each).
I didn’t mind the Meg cruelty when she was just a one-dimensional character but as the series went on and she her own stories, you hoped that the her character and the show would evolve but they always just pushed the reset button for the next episode but having seen a new side of her character at that point, yeah, the Meg bashing just became depressingly cruel.
I also feel like when Futurama came back they had the same issue with over doing what fans liked and remembered after it was cancelled.
THANK YOU!It drives me nuts that nobody seems to notice the VAST difference in quality. They literally refused to rehire half the original writing cast. That alone should make anyone question it. But then they literally reused jokes from the original run. “I’m 40% [blank]” was a throwaway line to begin with, and they re-used it like 50 times in ways that didn’t even make sense. It pisses me off a lot because of how much I genuinely love the original run.
Yeah, I don’t know whether they just completely stopped doing the “writers’ room” where everybody tears apart and rebuilds each joke to find the best version, or if they just had way less writers/voices in the room the second time around, but so many jokes felt like first-drafts, lazy gags, or references/repetitions of jokes they had done before.
Oh, they do. Just look at the AVC reviews. The original run is largely great, the Comedy Central stuff is mostly mediocre. That’s the consensus, I think.
I meant in the general public. Most people seem to be completely oblivious to the massive change in quality.
Futurama has always been in The Simpsons’ shadow in the eyes of the general public, I think.
Actually, I just looked through some of the AV Club reviews and there doesn’t seem to be any difference in their perception of the original run vs the CC run. Episodes all tend to hover around B+ ratings.They gave several reboot episodes A ratings while The Series Has Landed gets a B? A Fishful of Dollars gets a B-?!
I mean, I think The Late Phillip J. Fry definitely deserves an A. Along with Meanwhile and Near Death Wish. But yeah, S1’s grades are probably too low.
I wouldn’t give a single reboot episode anything over a C. Meanwhile was a nice little story and addition to the canon and all, but the attempt at jokes were still just as bad as the rest of the CC run.
Damn. Well I disagree but I respect that take.
I’m the guilty party. I’ve been a fan since its inception, and still watch it or its ridiculousness.
We didn’t want zombies. We didn’t know that signing a petition is how you get zombies.
Who the fuck actually watched it on Adultswim? It was reruns only. That doesn’t save shit.
The show didn’t get a lot of viewers on FOX, but the reruns that aired on Adult Swim were massive. FOX saw the numbers that the show was doing there and decided to take another swing at it.
I would bet 85% of Adult Swim viewers were playing a game or doing something else on their computer at the same time. For all Family Guy’s flaws the reruns somehow work really well as background entertainment.
That might work if the numbers didn’t tell a very different story. Audience drop off after Family Guy finished, or when Family Guy wasn’t on in the same time slot, was EXTREMELY significant (we’re talking like 60%).
Yea, no. The only show on AS that can keep viewers after Family Guy is Rick & Morty. Everything else (Aqua Teen, Robot Chicken, Toonami, Tuca & Bertie, whatever) had a huge dropoff.
Consider the time frame. Reruns mattered A LOT before DVRs and streaming, Hell, this is even before HD.
The reruns exposed people to the show when they hadn’t really watched it on fox. Those people bought DVDs. The rise in merch made executives realize it was worth money, and therefore worth reviving.
I’m a tad nostalgic. This is how I discovered Family Guy, and really enjoyed it. I don’t watch or enjoy it anymore, but the first few seasons after the revival were quite good. Now it pales in comparison to American Dad.
So, all I got out of this is Futurama will be leaving Hulu soon?
… Or no, cos that’s owned by Disney, too?Hm… 🤔
*goes back to loading DVDs*
Futurama will not be leaving Hulu. It sounds like they’re just trying to get all of their animated eggs in one broadcast television basket.
I figured this was why AS ordered so many Rick and Morty episodes, because after DIsney bought Fox they weren’t gonna be able to rerun Family Guy forever.
Lol, cable still exists
Yeah, going through the comments I’m kind of surprised at the number of people saying they’re still watching cable lol.
So, my hot take on the show? I don’t think it’s as bad as people say it is. Don’t get me wrong, it’s nowhere near as good as it used to be, and it still has a lot of problems and problematic elements, but the vitriol some people have for it is, I think, a bit overblown. I actually think the last few seasons have seen an uptick in quality, at least in as much as the writers don’t seem to have as much apathy for the show as they used to. Even Meg has been getting more to do than just be a punching bag for the family.And honestly, as far as it’s problematic elements go, I actually think South Park is still worse in that regard. It’s funny, everyone loved Family Guy until one day South Park told them not to, and then the next day everyone hated Family Guy. And the only reason the South Park guys hated Family Guy was because they were sick of fans telling them that South was their favorite show aside from Family Guy. As if the greatest sin Family Guy committed was darling to be as crass as tasteless as South Park, but it’s okay for South Park to do it because hey, at least they tell stories. Yeah… their storytelling is nowhere near good enough to excuse themselves, sorry guys. As for leaving Adult Swim, yeah it kinda has me in a somber mood. If for no other reason than the ever increasing consolidation of all things under the Disney brand just further highlight the capitalist hellscape we’re all slogging through.
Agreed. Between TBS, FXX, and [as] being my “background noise” channels while I’m working on other shit, I’ve seen every episode of Family Guy probably at least a dozen times despite not particularly being a fan. (I’ve also seen every American Dad!, Bob’s Burgers, Archer, and Sunny at least a dozen times, but those shows I adore.) Family Guy really has no reason to exist anymore, and a handful of episodes are absolute war crimes, but it’s been showing some improvement lately and the show itself is typically… s’alright. And there must be at least one good writer on staff, because every now and then buried among the turds there’s a downright excellent joke that catches me off-guard and makes me think I’m watching American Dad!.
xx
20?
Brian-Stewie episodes are the best. I loved their “on the road” episodes.
Counterpoint: Brian-Stewie episodes are also the worst lol.That one little experimental bottle episode they did where they’re locked in the bank without any cutaways is the biggest turd they’ve made in the 20 years they’ve been on TV…and they’ve had some terrible episodes lol.
As a Family Guy fan, it’s the reason I hated and turned away from South Park. It was a before and after for Family Guy after that episode for a certain aspect. It went from a show that was considered good but maybe not great to Adam Sandler/Big Bang Theory quality to a lot of people.
I actually rewatched it for the first time in 10 years, and was like, yeah, this isn’t that bad. I’ve been avoiding it for no reason.People seem to catch random episodes and decide it’s not worth their time. (Which is how it got canceled in the first place.) And a lot of the people who talk about how trashy it is, or use it as an example of bad comedy, tend not to actually watch it. While I did not actively do that before, I had definitely internalized some of these views. I’m not saying it’s not guilty of these things, but when you realize how small of a percentage of the content these issues make up, you can see how it’s forgivable. It might help that recent seasons adopted a self awareness that I was really digging. I enjoy that sort of thing in general, but it also helped to undo some their earlier rough choices. Some stand out episodes to me includes the one where Stewy kidnaps the cast of Star Trek TNG to spend the day with him, and the one where they focus test reboot options for after Disney buys fox.
Oh, to be a young middle schooler, telling my friends that I saw a commercial saying Family Guy was coming back to TV on Adult Swim. And then being in high school being excited that the show was coming back. And then being in my 20s resenting the shows continual existence. And now in my 30s…just being old.
Thank you for this recap of my life.
i love family guy, i cant wait for the new season
Peter Griffin is portrayed as a psychotic who is so obscenely self-centered and is such an abuser of people around him, that he makes Trump look absolutely mentally well. This turd is one of the most overrated programs ever to air. No longer a shitshow on Adult Swim? Good for them.
I haven’t had cable in years, but I always thought it was a shame Adult Swim didn’t get the rights to air some 90s adult animated classics like The Critic, Duckman, Clerks, Beavis & Butthead, ect… Also cult stuff like Invader Zim or Ren & Stimpy. I suppose that wouldn’t appeal to younger viewers as much, but they can FukOff to TikTok.
They did air Clerks. No way in hell could they ever afford Beavis & Butthead and after Ripping Friends, they want nothing to do with any of John K’s shows. Nick also isn’t going to let their kid-friendly marketing tools (which does include Zim) air on an adult network.
Yes, yes, don’t gotta toonsplain me. I just thought it was a shame is all.Didn’t realize they did Clerks though.
It would be pretty easy to miss considering there are only 6 episodes of Clerks. Not really enough to keep it in regular rotation.
You say that, but I feel like Adult Swim played the 6 episodes of FLCL over and over when they first got it.
Why not? They do it with Rick & Morty!
Beavis and Butthead has always had the music videos issue too, MTV was able to use those from whatever deals they had with the labels but no one else will. It gets re-run on Pluto and Hulu and elsewhere some times but it’s cut way down and loses a lot without the video commentary.
Does Beavis and Butthead even run in syndication? I don’t think I’ve ever seen it channel surfing. Music rights issues perhaps?
Lol “channel surf”
There’s also the fact that Nick/ViacomCBS views CN/WarnerMedia as one of its biggest competitors.
Clerks the animated series is owned by Disney
90% sure “Clerks: TAS” reran on Comedy Central, not [as].
Oh, please god, not Beavis & Butthead. I hate that show with a passion. And I watched a couple of Ren & Stimpy episodes recently, and it did not age well. I was actually repulsed a couple of times, and kept asking myself how I could have liked it so much the first time around.
I think it’s because kids in general find gross-out humor funny (which a lot of R&S is built on) and a lot of people just kinda grow out of that later.(Not trying to shame anyone who still likes that humor as an adult is a bad person or anything but just saying as a general statement.)
Because you have been conditioned to find humor in nothing funny
Y’know, I SO hated B&B when it first aired. I knew so many of those guys, who were my age or a bit older, and I was terrified of being lumped in with them. But as I ‘aged out of the system’ I look at it now and laugh because I remember those kids, and I know some of my former classmates who still ARE Beavis and or Butthead…and sometimes at the same time! I identify more with the squares now and look at B&B as people I am sometimes forced to deal with, cartooned and lampooned when I WANT to harpoon them. Literally.
Ren & Stimpy seemed to have some charm for the first season (and a half, perhaps).
But then I think there was a change in production crew and the subsequent episodes (and movie) were more about being gross.
I did a pandemic rewatch of Duckman (mostly to see if it held up beyond my fuzzy, little kid memories of catching it in reruns and feeling subversive) and it was still great!
I’m gonna have to buy the box set eventually, can’t seem to find it on streaming or torrent.
Amazing. I remember staying up late to catch Duckman as a kid and you’re making me want to re-watch it!
:Bury The Hatchet” is as good a showtoon as was ever written, and often goes through my mind like Level Nine from Futurama.
Duckman sucks. Doesn’t hold up at all.
Pretty sure AS never got The Critic or Duckman was because USA Network had the rights for a long time, and then I swear they aired on CC for a few years and CC still holds the rights. Which is a damn shame, because I’d put both of those on the AS marathon all the time. The Clerks animated show is such a product of its time that I’m glad it’s kinda faded into memory. I wish Family guy would have not just gone the same route but stayed that way (cancelled), but then there would be no American Dad, and it really has gotten better since moving to TBS.
Fuck YES to Duckman getting another run. Also new eps. Jason Alexander is always down for it when asked!
Damn that Duckman unresolved cliffhanger!
Adult swim was the home for orphaned animation in the early days. Home Movies, The Oblongs, Mission Hill, Baby Blues, all prime time animation that got cut after a year or less. I am pretty sure that is how Family Guy ended up on Adult Swim, they did not have enough seasons to go to real syndication so Turner bought it.
Also was where Futurama ended up before getting renewed years later.
LOVED Home Movies, and Bromwell High. One of my often used phrases is “In right economic circumstances, shit burns down all the time Mr. Bib!”What was that 15-minute show with the politically incorrect characters who were drawn like Jack Kirby? There was a short oriental guy and a kind of Frankenstein looking character? That was hilarious too. And the PJs! Don’t forget The PJs!!
Like hell ViacomCBS is letting a chief competitor run B&B, or Zim, or R&S.
I think Beavis & Butthead are Paramount+.
But I would’t recommend watching it. It is pretty bad.
If anything, duckman will go to peacock since it’s a universal property. It has never been streaming, but USA was basically alpha adult swim with that show. And seeing how the cg return of Rugrats on Paramount + was a hit, you know that they could revive duckman (the creators of Rugrats made duckman as well).
Comedy Central played the Critic and Duckman
I’m just glad I’m not the only one who remembers Clerks. I sit through the entire series about once a year.
Ren and Stimpy wasn’t “cult”. It was one of the more popular animated shows in the 90s.
This show is still on? Lol, I stopped watching years and years ago, it got to the point where it’s been on too long and not funny anymore.
Maybe it’s just because this show started when I was a middle teen, but I will defend the first 1-3ish seasons. Can’t believe it’s still going.
But you can believe that The Simpsons has been on for your entire life? lol.
I just don’t think about that, tbh. Dateline and law and order have existed longer then I have, too. 🤷🏽♀️
Fact: pre-cancellation Family Guy is some of the best animated comedy ever.
I’m alright with a few seasons after it came back, too. It should have taken a future-cue from Futurama and quit while it was ahead, though.
So I just checked Adult Swim’s schedule and Sunday they are beginning the night with Shazam! (The old TV show, I’m guessing, cuz the timeslot wouldn’t allow for the 2hr12 movie plus ad breaks) from 5-7:30 and then the first Stefan Urquelle episode of Family Matters at 7:30. lol
I’m assuming this is a one-time post migration goof off. Nice to see they still enjoy fucking with their viewers like back in the day.
That’s Acme Night or something.
The idea is basically to show family friendly WB films while also premiering HBOMax content to a wider audience (a two-hour special premiere of the Gremlins animated prequel is supposed to make up one of the nights).
It’s technically a Cartoon Network block and they are showing Shazam! from a few years ago – maybe some things get cut for time? The Family Matters episode is a bit of a surprise but there’s a Steve Urkel animated Christmas special coming out this year and there’s been rumors about trying to get some sort of Family Matters reboot off the ground since HBOMax launched.
Huh, just seems weird they would cut the movie for time.
As for the Family Matters ep, pretty sure they just added it for “why not?” fun, which is also why I was hoping it was old Shazam.
I doubt they cut anything for time, other than any scenes that might be inappropriate to show to kids. Adult Swim starts at 8PM EDT/PDT, and Cartoon Network is airing this movie at 6PM EDT/PDT. The movie is 132 minutes, so with about 18 minutes of commercials, that’s 2.5 hours for 2 hour and 12 minute film. Then they’re airing Family Matters, probably to advertise the new Urkel special they have coming out this fall, and also as filler since there’s no point starting regular Adult Swim programming on a half hour.
Cartoon Network takes the 8pm time slot every September. They usually give it back in late December, but they might not this time due to AS losing Family Guy and Cartoonito leaving CN with only 5 hours on weekdays.
Aw, for a second I thought it might be 70s Shazam just for the hell of it.
Damn, I was hoping it was the 70s show too! I couldn’t watch without cable anyway, just thought it would it be a fun AS move to show the old one.
I can’t decide what the best parts are! The hair, the tights, the belly pooching out of there, the nifty cape…
I don’t think Adult Swim kicks in until 8 PM
That checks out tbh, 18 minutes for ad breaks is a decent chunk of time and they could always show it with limited commercial breaks.
It’s my opinion that the issue goes all the way back to the days of Ren and Stimpy!
Not a fan of FG, but I do appreciate just how many jokes they fit into the episodes, and the fact that they’ve basically made room for any type of joke on the show. Like, I bet it’s fun to work on as a comedy writer because you can literally pitch any crazy thing and get it on. Can’t really think of another show like that. Of course, the randomness is also what makes the show less appealing, so it’s a trade off I suppose. I see why people hate Family Guy but I feel this type of show has its place.
American Dad is better anyway. But seriously, who still has cable?
THANK GOD. It’s not that funny, people. And having the carcasses of its moldy old reruns (and the even more unfunny American Dad) take over 4 hours of prime-time programming every night made CN a channel to avoid. Here’s hoping the terrible execs at Turner will take it upon themselves to produce better, more clever animation (Rick And Morty, Final Space, etc.) instead of this dreck. Not holding my breath though; they’ll probably replace it with something even more insipid, like a Hanna-Barbera retrospective of 70s cartoon schlock, just because they hate their viewers.
Unlike Futurama, Family Guy should have remained cancelled. I’ve tried watching some of the latter day episodes (seasons 10-now) and I always feel dumber if I make it to the end, or if I don’t just turn it off after five minutes. The first several seasons were pretty decent, but the show has not aged well, and not in the “Simpsons were pretty bad last year, but this year isn’t -as- bad” kind of situation. It’s been a steady decline and the best thing that American Dad did was get the hell away from Fox and move to TBS.
Y’all be some whiny motherfuckers,
especially you Old Man Schultz.
I get a contact high just remembering that era of AS. Those were the days. Time to listen to every What a Cartoon! about those shows. The latest Sealab one about the Bizarro ep was great.
Honestly, at this point the only time I even watch Adult Swim is Toonami, and occasionally if I’m up late and they happen Aqua Teen or Robot Chicken is on. Otherwise I barely ever bother, precisely because it’s all just Family Guy or American Dad.
Except for around Christmas, The Road to the North Pole is a tradition at this point and I make sure I catch it at least once.
I see a lot of triggered cry babies..maybe you should turn the station
Good god, shut up. No one is triggered by FG. And come up with a new fucking word.
One guy pointed out issues with character development and gave some solid examples as to why. Disagreeing with something and providing an argument is not what triggered means.Triggered refers to PTSD, and experiencing overwhelming reminders, feelings and anxiety about those past experiences.
Still mad at Fox for Cancelling Titus.
Our long national nightmare is finally over.
Haven’t watched a new episode in years, but I’ve always found a little comfort in knowing it’s still running and making all the uptight assholes a little less happy.
Apparently Seth MacFarlane hasn’t written it for around a decade, he’s mainly voice talent for it at this point, the man has clearly wanted out for awhile.I’ve long suspected he’d only agreed to keep doing it in exchange for things like Cosmos and The Orville, but he’s been quite vocal about hating FOX for a while and, while Disney is the ones signing the checks now, I think he’d be more than happy to end it just to never have to deal with and Murdochs ever again.
I watched the original run and the first few seasons of the return, but now it joins Simpsons as one of those shows I forget is still running and feels like it should have had some sort of conclusions years ago.
Unfortunately not the first time something like this happened. Futurama was just as popular, but it was a sad day when it disappeared from AS. It got the ball rolling for it’s salvation but I hate to say Fox and Comedy Central pushed it’s revival. I do like that Aqua Teen Hunger Force even threw a little shade at the situation.
DVD Sales and piracy saved family guy. Adult Swim may have helped.
But we still have to suffer through Bob’s Burgers? If they’d kill off Gale that show would have a chance, but as it stands now worst King of the Hill replacement ever
Gale is in like 2-4 episodes a season at most.
Adult swim wasn’t originally a channel. It was a show lineup on late evening weekends then expanding to nightly on Cartoon Network. Come on, man.
My wife and I have started enjoying The Orville on Hulu, and I’ve been struck by the tonal difference between it and FG/AD. It’s really striking how the guy who makes this loving and faithful tribute to Star Trek with heart and feeling, that deals with some pretty heavy stuff in a lot of episodes (the one where they had to choose like 30 people to save from a dying planet was pretty intense) also writes cartoons about an alcoholic dog and psychotic baby. Like, it’s given me a deep appreciation for Seth MacFarlane’s talent.
Also, I though Adult Swim was a program bloc on Cartoon Network, not its own network.
Not that I really give a damn about Family Guy anymore, but it will be nice to turn on Adult Swim and finally maybe see something other than 5 episodes of FG in a row again.
Good riddance. I just hope Adult Swim can survive without it. I mean they still have Rick and Morty which is miles ahead of Family Guy, and I hear (and am glad) that I see more people talking about that today than Family Guy. Family Guy is the new Simpsons. Az zombified corpse walking around living off nostalgia.
I always liked Adult Swim for their original content, as that weird absurd stuff is what it was founded on. But that was the stuff that most people scoffed at to go and watch Family Guy reruns.
Also I will never forgive Fox or Seth Macfarlane for making The Cleveland show and it replacing King of the Hill. And also Futurama was better.
I watched it during those three Fox years, then again when it came back…but only until 2008 after I had a son and realized there were a lot of jokes about dead children on there. The funny thing is back then everyone (and I mean Gary Oldman-style Everyone) defended that show online, as if it was the American Renaissance. I got shouted down just for thinking it wasn’t a good show. Now a lot more people think like I do about it.
This author does not know how hyphens work.
Long as I can keep watching Bob’s Burgers on Hulu, because Disney+ doesn’t work very well over satellite internet for whatever reason. (I know Disney owns Hulu now, just thinking they might try to consolidate their animated slate all onto one service at some point.)
Rick and Morty are superior to all Set MacFarlane’s creations
end of an era. though i may have cut cable, and stopped regularly watching Family Guy over a decade ago, i travel a lot for work, and turning on any given hotel TV to find Family Guy on adult swim was always a comfort.
I was one of those people who didn’t pay attention to FG when it was first on, and subsequently discovered it on Adult Swim. I know the show and McFarlane get a lot of crap on this site, but those Fox seasons, and first handful of relaunch seasons, are comedy gold, Jerry. Yes, it went off the rails when McFarlane’s mom died and he tried to get all “artsy” (specifically, with the Agatha Christie-styled “who did it” episode). But classic FG hits me right in a sweet comedy spot, and it never gets old.
It is funny how the show was saved by adult swim. This was “release the synder cut” before that every happened. Family guy is silly humor I can turn my brain off and watch for years (granted I don’t watch it any more). It’s always hilarious to me that I could watch this show say 5 years ago but I couldn’t with the Simpsons which wasn’t as good as it use to be but was still way better than Family guy but I just expected more of the Simpsons.
Probably the one series who never changed it’s ways to the “Cancel Culture” that was out there. They kept with the jokes no matter if distasteful or not. I know it may of rubbed people the wrong way but they had many amazing seasons so they must of been doing something right.For someone who suffers from depression and anxiety it actually hit at times, but I laughed at it. Why because at times you need to laugh at things. Like people will always be trolls out there and comment how bad it was. But with every hater there is someone out there that loved it.
Great! Now when will the new seasons of Joe Pera Talks with You and Primal be airing on Adult Swim?
While Adult Swim numbers I am sure helped, I am pretty sure the crazy DVD sales are what brought the show back. Similar to Futurama.
I enjoyed Family guy way back when (seasons 1-4) and that was often a go-to when my friends came back from a night of partying, but we weren’t quite ready to call it a night. The issue I have with the show is that after those first few seasons, everything just got mean-spirited. Obviously, Meg was treated problematically by the writers, who by their own admission, had no idea how to write for her, but early episodes had things like Peter fucking up a birthday party, then working to get some solution when he belatedly realized he hurt someone. It seemed like later seasons, he would have just said “fuck you, this party is dumb” and made someone cry, roll credits.It is hard to tell how much of the humor of that time appealed to me because I was college age-ish, or whether that was the sort of tone of successful comedy at the time. Bill Simmons, Dane Cook, the Frat Pack (Old School, Wedding Crashers, etc.), Family Guy, Tucker Max, etc. were all popular around that time, but I cannot tell if they were generally popular, or only well known within the other early 20s white males I was hanging out with. Interest in that brand of humor has cooled considerably (for the best), but at least for me, Family Guy seemed to be in line with the comedy zeitgeist of the time. It no longer is, we’ve moved on and I think we’re all the better for it.
I still think their best gag was Peter’s extended grimacing when he bumped his knee in season one or two, and it was the main reason I thought it was a good show worth having around early on.
There’s a lot of anger from people who don’t seem to realize they don’t have to watch the show if you find it offensive/transphobic/not funny/etc. You don’t have to watch any TV, read any book, or go to any movie. There are a billion channels right now.I always think it’s funny when there’s a story that “Terrible man-babies downvote TV show on rotten tomatoes” then we get something like this where people complain, downvote the show on rotten tomatoes, etc but it’s ok because the show “sucks” or worse… is “unsafe.” Just don’t watch it! Walk away! i say this as someone who liked Family Guy back when it was cancelled, but ducked out around season 10, because I no longer enjoyed it.
I still really like those first 3 seasons of Family Guy, which are really fun and vaudevillian – after it came back it just got so meta and over-the-top with the shot-for-shot movie and TV parodies that I tuned out pretty quick. From what I’ve watched recently it’s just a wholly different show, and the type of humor I enjoyed seems to have transferred to “American Dad.”One early episode has one of the best silly jokes I’ve seen, which I still laugh about. Might not get this totally right, but it’s a cutaway and Peter sees a sign at a protest saying “Free Tibet.” He shouts “I’ll take it!”, then jumps into a phone booth, dials quickly and goes “Hello China? I’ve got something you want, but it’s gonna cost you…yeah that’s right. Allll the tea.” Just a great joke!
Yeah, the show started off with a lot of heart and really good musical numbers. I think it went downhill when every character became a jerk/whatever the plot needs them to be. They have occasional good ones but it’s all just so lazily crass. American Dad can do dark much better while still being true to the characters. For example Joe- went from inspiring character with disabilities to a constant suicide joke and someone who needs his diaper changed. Also his wife (voiced by the wonderful Jennifer Tilly) cheats on him and wants him to die. That’s the joke. Brian- Smartest guy in the family, if not a bit pompous and drinks too much to a sociopathic strawman-liberal. Chris- dumb but sweet kid to sex offenderMeg- Frumpy but determined to sex offender/murderer/lightning rodWeirdly Stewie and Quagmire are the two characters who have become better people over the years.
Remember when Lois was a good mom who loved her family?
I miss those days. Occasionally they show glimpses of her as a decent human being. She at least repents for faking being blind in a recent one.
There was really no winning here, Fox knows that it has a licensing goldmine that AS put most of the actual work into, and AS has really lost any kind of cohesive direction as an organization. No way that AS would pay the kind of money Fox is certainly demanding (if an offer was even made) and there’s no reason for Fox to give a Warner property any kind of help.