Hank Azaria acknowledges problematic Simpsons past, defends problematic Idol present
Hank Azaria reflects on dropping The Simpsons role Apu and picking up The Idol role Chaim
Aux News Hank Azaria
Hank Azaria is no stranger to controversy. The problem with Apu, The Simpsons character he voiced for years, came to a head in 2017 with The Problem With Apu, a documentary by comedian Hari Kondabolu. The character has since been acknowledged and accepted as a racially insensitive stereotype, including by Azaria, who was initially resistant to the criticism. “On the one hand, I didn’t want to cave to so-called ‘PC pressure’ or ‘the woke mob’—whatever you want to call it,” he says in a new interview with The Independent. “On the other hand, I didn’t want to continue to engage in a harmful practice if that’s what I was doing.”
He definitely was doing it in the case of The Simpsons, as laid out by Kondabolu. The pair recently discussed the issue publicly for the first time on NPR’s Code Switch, an experience that “felt healing for everybody involved,” Azaria tells The Independent. “I think it’s a good example of how a really uncomfortable conversation can turn into a really productive one.” (On the podcast, he said if he “had any doubts” about Apu being problematic, a racist attack on a store clerk where the assailants yelled “Apu” changed his mind: “Apu had become a slur.”)
Now, Azaria doesn’t voice any non-white characters on The Simpsons at all. “There was no public outcry over” the other characters he dropped, “And they weren’t considered stereotypical or harmful in any way. But I realized if nothing else, why am I taking the job away from an actor of color with so much less opportunity than I have?”
While Azaria is open to the issues with The Simpsons, his new series The Idol is a different story. “From the outside, that appears like chaos,” Azaria says of rumors that the series’ production went “off the rails. “From the inside, it’s thrillingly creative, especially when there’s a guy who’s really watching what you’re doing, and really trying to help you bring out the best version of that.”
“I wasn’t involved in any of the sexual shenanigans in [The Idol]. But I can tell you that there was tremendous respect, collaboration, feedback, and checking in from Sam [Levinson, the showrunner] about whether everybody was comfortable with what was going on,” Azaria says in defense of The Weeknd’s much-discussed HBO show. “I understand anybody being daunted or triggered by what they might be seeing. That’s understandable. All I can say is in making it, a lot of care was taken with everybody.”
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“On the one hand, I didn’t want to cave to so-called ‘PC pressure’ or ‘the woke mob’—whatever you want to call it,” he says in a new interview with The Independent. “On the other hand, I didn’t want to continue to engage in a harmful practice if that’s what I was doing.”
…. does he not realize those are the same things? The stigma behind “the woke mob” is so laughable. “The woke mob is correct but hell if I’ll give in to the Woke Mob because they’re the Woke Mob”. Okay guys. Take a breath. Just admit you don’t know who “the woke mob” is and “the woke mob” stands if for you not knowing what you’re talking about and therefore wanting to not discuss something.
There I just broke down the woke mob boogeyman you guys love using so much, it’s an excuse for not knowing/not wanting to discuss something.
My interpretation of the “so-called” part of the quote is he agrees with you.
People have no critical thinking skills any more, I stg.
“My interpretation of the “so-called” part of the quote is he agrees with you”
If he agreed, he wouldn’t have brought up the idea of “caving” to anyone.
It’s absolutely incredible the way people will bend over backwards to excuse the behaviour of someone because *checks notes* they like hearing his voice on a TV show.
You only think that because you read and understood what Azaria said!!!
oh so now you’re cancelling him for this?
Blaming actors for doing silly voices for stuff they do not control and asking him to bear the brunt in no longer being able to make a living for doing voices in a cartoon is pretty much what the dumb, very real, “woke mob” does.
As I understand its use, the idea of the “woke mob” is the idea that there is a group of people who are using the ethic of defending the marginalized as a weapon against anyone who disagrees with or whose actions come into any conflict with their views. It’s an idea that the past is being judged by anachronistic future standards, and that the “woke mob” fails to apprehend or allow for nuance when passing judgement. It foresees a future in which all are condemned because there is no grace, no mercy, and that increasingly small infractions are being prosecuted in in the public court of somebody’s opinion by a loud, powerful, but relatively small contingent before whom entire industries cower. The “woke mob,” in in this view, is a para-religious political belief that insists on conversion to their views or else one faces career death. I’m honestly somewhat surprised it hasn’t rebranded the “woke inquisition,” because it’s ultimately viewed as an attempt at seizing power. I think it’d be foolish to think no one is trying to do things as described. I think it’d be foolish to assume that’s the name of the game for everyone who values and promotes social justice, too.
“As I understand it, ibble bibble bibble dibble…”*3 hours later*“and it would be foolish to think some people somewhere somehow in some way to some end for some reason don’t do whatever all that was that I just went through. Therefore, um, … woke.”
I think the question at the time was whether there was really a groundswell of opposition to Apu as a character and Azaria as his voice, or if it was just a comedian looking for some publicity. Apu is probably the most upstanding citizen in Springfield – entrepreneur, family man, religious.
“Problematic” has become synonymous with “things I don’t like” within the Puritan Twitter crowd. You guys are weird.
“Racism, sexism and homophobia” are not just “things I don’t like”, you sad fucking twat.
Wat
I mean, it is true that “extremely racist caricatures of marginalized communities performed by white actors” is a thing I don’t like.
“You’re only saying racism is problematic because you don’t like it!”
What’s racist about The Idol? Oh! You just assumed I was talking about Apu, like these other two geniuses.
Cool, how does that apply to The Idol?
Oh, in that case I’m guessing that they’re referring to all of the widely reported problems with the production, including the bit where members of the production team referred to it being a “rape fantasy” and “sexual torture porn.”
https://www.nylon.com/life/the-idol-hbo-drama-controversy-explained
I wasn’t replying to a comment about The Idol, genius. I was replying to a comment about how people who speak out against racism are routinely mischaracterized by bad faith conservative rhetoric. And if you’re referring to your original genius comment, it only specifies problematic, and the article you are commenting on, genius, refers to both the Apu role and The Idol as problematic. So maybe if you don’t want to be misunderstood be more specific in your genius prose, genius.
I commented about how the term ‘problematic’ is thrown around as a modern catch-all, in reference to the title of the article. It was you and the two other specimens of pure intelligence who jumped in, ignored what was said, and patted yourselves on the back with “akshully, racism”. Soo-per-jean-yus
So next time, super-genius, when you want people to know you are referring to the title of the article and not one of the two things referred to as “problematic”, you use your pure intelligence to specify what you are referring to. That’s how words work, super-genius. And, as has been pointed out, our comments work whether you are referring to racism or rape culture.
Catch up. We pretty much hashed this particular one out five years ago.
You hashed out the reason that The Idol is problematic five years ago, before anyone even imagined its existence? That’s amazing, you’re really smart.
He was right in the first half. Never should have given into the deranged racist woke mods who wanted to destroy a beloved Indian character. Nothing is ever far enough for them. Soon we will be living in a grey expressionless culture under threat of death never to “offend” someone.
“Nothing is ever far enough for them.” Funny you should say that considering how much conservatives are blasting each other for not being far right enough.
Well that’s just how extremism works. Got to be extremer-than-thou.
Only if the Republicans win the election
Man, imagine basing your entire online identity on being a “conservative patriot.” Do you think you’re contributing to the cause by bitching about Apu from the Simpsons on random pop culture websites?
I thought they only wanted to destroy rockers? I’m going to have to watch Quadrophenia again.
ok, nazi
Soon we will be living in a grey expressionless culture under threat of death never to “offend” someone.So I suppose you vehemently oppose efforts to curtail the teaching of America’s racist history, since those efforts are mostly based around not offending white students and parents?
The racist CRT you libtards snuck into education over the last 30 years isn’t “history”. You warped history to attack our white children.
What the fuck are these dicksplats doing on the AV Club?
They’re here because you respond to them. They only want attention, so just ignore them. Don’t reply to them, and dismiss them when they reply to you.
Okay, fella.
Use one more meaningless buzzword, I almost have a full bingo card.
Are you a full member of the Klan or just a probationary member?
The KKK are Democrats. 87% of Americans say so.
Do you have a single thought that’s your own, or do you just repeat all the bullshit you gobble up from the Daily Wire?
[citation needed]
This has to be satire. No way is this real.
won’t anyone think of the white children? PLEASE THEY ARE AT RISK OF BEING LEFT AT THE TOP OF THE PYRAMID THEY”VE RULED FOR THE LAST SEVERAL THOUSAND YEARS!
This is a parody account, right?
I’ve got a pair o deez you can check out libber
Stop hitting on me, incel.
Fuck off, chud.
Interesting. What an insane freak, but hey, “the AV club”.
Soon we will be living in a grey expressionless culture
No we won’t.
racist woke mods
Racism is prejudice + power, i.e. punching down. In the case of Azaria/Apu, this was people having a problem with white people playing minority characters/stereotypes, i.e. punching up.
You can be prejudiced against white people in America. You can’t be racist, because white people have the social support power structures that minorities struggle to have.
Now you know what racism is you don’t need to misuse the term again in future.
Where are you getting this “prejudice + power” definition from?
I’m quoting someone who was quoting someone, but unfortunately I don’t remember who either were.
The reason I like it as a definition is because for so long now I’ve seen people basically using the term “racism” when they mean “cultural insensitivity” and vice versa.
I think racism is worse but I couldn’t explain why. Putting racism in a context of power and social structures is the difference to me, hence racism = prejudice + power. From this it also explains why “reverse racism” (claimed by white people) is mainly nonsense.
It’s not a definition I agree with.
Care to explain why?
Perhaps I’m getting it wrong. Would you agree that racism is always punching down, and hence comes from a position of power.
Therefore, for example, claiming a minority is being racist to a majority (with social structures that support that majority) doesn’t really work or make sense.
I think that’s structural racism, whereas racism is just prejudice based on race.
Seems an oversimplification to me that results in comments like the OP’s “racist woke mods who wanted to destroy a beloved Indian character”, which is obviously false.
I think the idea that racism is only systemic is an oversimplification.
Though you haven’t given any alternative solutions for the examples I’ve given.
If by that you mean “examples” for how supposedly minorities can’t be prejudiced against majorities, then I think the traditional definition gives a pretty strong alternative solution: racism is prejudice based on race regardless of social status.
“examples” for how supposedly minorities can’t be prejudiced against majorities,
No, I said “claiming a minority is being racist to a majority doesn’t really work”. I even explicitly made the distinction that “You can be prejudiced against white people in America. You can’t be racist” and explained why.
It’s this interchangeable use of the terms “racist” and “prejudice” that’s the issue. It allows for confusion and misinterpretation in either good or bad faith, as shown in the OP.
racism is prejudice based on race regardless of social status
As I said, this results in comments like the OP’s “racist woke mods who wanted to destroy a beloved Indian character”, which is obviously false.
This is just one example of how the term “racism” can be misused, clearly in bad faith here. Surely you can see that by making the definition more precise then its usage must become more precise too.
For so long now have I seen conservatives say stuff like “if you do this to us, let’s see how you like it when we do it to you” and hence “we’re not the racists, you’re the racists”. This can be stopped by having a definition of racism that actually has meaning in our society so that the word can’t just be thrown around like a schoolyard taunt.
I was the first person to disagree with the OP, so I think it’s weird you’re accusing me of using his logic. I disagree with the idea that him voicing Apu was racist, but I never thought the backlash was racist either like the OP did.I don’t think making the definition of racism narrower makes it better, since I think the idea that only certain people can be racist makes for an inaccurate definition. Even if minorities can be inaccurately accused of racism I don’t think that means we should define it so they can’t be racist at all.
I was the first person to disagree with the OP, so I think it’s weird you’re accusing me of using his logic.
Sorry, that’s not what I was doing or intending.
Even if minorities can be inaccurately accused of racism I don’t think
that means we should define it so they can’t be racist at all.
Well, we’re living in that reality. Yay us.
As is the idea that it’s only leveled-up bigotry.It can be multiple things, is what I’m saying.
I think “systemic/structural/institutional racism” covers the “prejudice + power” idea nicely and calling it simply “racism” confuses the issue.
awww bless your heart you and your avatar make a strong case for “knowing what line of BS someone is going to spew before they ever even open their mouth”.also, maybe close that mouth if you don’t want the remaining pieces of your brain to come dribbling out…
Soon we will be living in a grey expressionless culture under threat of death never to “offend” someone. FFS guy, stop creating bad performance art online and get a fucking job.
Has anyone ever unironically used the word “Woke” and then not turned out to be a racist?
Parody
I love how “conservative patriots” just totally ignore the fact that the stereotype created by this character was used as a slur in a racist attack.
But then again I assume there are no mirrors in your house.
Yours is the worst case of farts in heads I’ve ever seen.
You can point to the many, many classic episodes of the show that depicted Apu and his status as an immigrant and an Indian in ways that were completely absent anywhere else on television at the time. The compassion that he was written with, the depictions of aspects of Indian culture that had basically never been depicted in mainstream American culture before, none of that matters to scumbags like Hari Kondabolu because Apu worked in a convenience store. That’s what really bothers them. Sorry, but I don’t think working in a job like that is something to be ashamed of, or something that’s reflects poorly on someone, particularly an immigrant. It’s a simple fact of life. Immigrants don’t all get to choose between being a doctor or a comedian.BTW Hari maybe you should have chosen doctor because your career is over and you’re an unfunny hack. Fuck you!
Dude, try switching to decaf.
White man is mad
This site needs a block button, or it’s going to be absolutely unusable sooner than later.
I mean I don’t have a position on this Kondabolu guy, who I’d never heard of before and have never heard mentioned since, but where’s the lie? Apu runs a business, takes care of his (large) family, is a great neighbor, and generally serves as the voice of reason when Springfield was Springfielding. Negative behavior towards him always reflected poorly on whoever was the source. He was a good character for mocking bigotry.
Could be a cool idea to watch Kondabolu’s documentary, listen to the podcast mentioned above, read a single article covering the controversy, make any effort, really, to understand his position before dismissing it out of hand.
I read the articles when this first happened and feel no need to revisit them now, but thanks for the accusation of ignorance.
My apologies, I took “who I’d never heard of before” to mean “before reading this AV Club post,” but I see that you meant “before the brouhaha came up a few years ago.” Still, I’d argue that reading the coverage around the movie isn’t the same thing as watching it.
At the end of the day, my default position is always to listen to the affected group and try to learn from what they’re saying. So, if an Indian guy is saying it’s cause for concern, I’ll take his word for it.
It’s cool, sorry for coming in a bit hot myself.And I agree 100% with respect to listening to affected groups. My question in this particular case is whether it was a group, or just a guy. I feel in the current social media environment that individual (or at least small group) positions get amplified and are extrapolated as being representative of a something more than they really are. Apu was probably the most dignified member of the Simpsons cast and the show’s worse for not having him anymore. Further, what was really accomplished here?
The documentary features interviews with more than a dozen other folks of South Indian descent, and, while many agree with Kondabolu’s premise, they also give plenty of airtime to those that disagree.
I would also add (as does the film) that the depiction of Apu is certainly no less problematic than that of Bumblebee Man, Cookie Kwan, sushi waiter/karate instructor Akira Kurosawa (seriously), restaurant proprietor Luigi Linguini (SERIOUSLY) or any of the dozens of other stereotypical Simpsons characters that have appeared over the years. One very good solution to this situation would be to simply cancel the fucking show, as they should have done (at least) a decade ago. But, if they insist on keeping it on the air, there will continue to be calls for them to comport to modern social norms around the depiction of racial and ethnic minorities.
Just for the record – and because you kept adding the “seriouslys”:Bumblebee Man isn’t so ‘problematic’, as he’s based on actual Mexican-tv variety-show characters, who are entirely & intentionally *already* OTT;Nor is Cookie, as she’s one of the rare characters portrayed as *good at their profession”;Despite what a couple unofficial Internet groups indicate, Akira’s last name has never been “Kurosawa” on the show, just in one old piece of merchandise that didn’t get the stupid idea from any part of the show or writer;And Luigi’s last name is “Risotto”, which is the same conceit, but at least without the annoying alliteration.But absolutely agreed that Apu was no more or less “problematic” than them. That is: “not at all”. I find his Chaim *far* more problematic, frankly.
That’s what I get for trusting Wikipedia. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
accusation of ignorance is a bit much- he literally said “do any of these things before dismissing it out of hand”. Nowhere did he accuuse you of being ignorant.Arrogance, though, that’s a different story, Dr. Baby.
I mean I don’t have a position on this Kondabolu guy, who I’d never heard of before and have never heard mentioned since, but where’s the lie? Right there, where this chud says “none of that matters to scumbags like Kondabolu”. All of that is accounted for in the documentary. The whole point of it was Hari weighing the good and bad aspects of the representation provided by Apu, as well as going into some rarely spoken of details about the creation of the character and Azaria’s specific portrayal. It clearly does matter to him.
TBF, he started out as a straight up racial stereotype (which the show lampshaded in the bowling team episode). As time went on, he did turn into everything you say and Kondabolu’s doc acknowledges this. If you watch the doc, most of the people he interviews are conflicted about the role of Apu in building up or breaking down prejudice against South Asians in the US. The fact is, it’s probably a little of both.Where I part ways with Kondabolu’s analysis is on Azaria’s role. Who cares who does the voice of an animated character? Some of the joy of animation is that anyone can be anyone because animation doesn’t have to reflect any kind of reality. What I think he should have focused on is the lack of South Asian writers (and a general lack of diversity) in the Simpsons writers room. If the lines that were written for Azaria to read as Apu were actually written by someone really familiar with that culture, I would think there should be no problem with Apu at all.
Co-sign on Azaria’s role here. First, he is one of the most talented voice actors out there and voices a bunch of the show’s characters. I generally disagree with the “only an X person can play an X role” concept but even more so when you don’t even see the human behind an animated character.
‘This site is going to be absolutely unusable soon’-The AVClub
Apu is a loyal father, a business owner and valued member of the community; he is a positive depiction of a human being in a show where alcoholics and family physical violence are running gags.
He doesn’t own the Kwik e Mart, there’s an entire episode about him being fired.
“On the one hand, I didn’t want to cave to so-called ‘PC pressure’ or ‘the woke mob’—whatever you want to call it,” Oh fuck OFF, you fucking loser.
“He doesn’t voice any non-white characters in the simpsons”Yeah cause they’re yellow
So what’s the public gist on his Birdcage character these days? I feel like that was totally overshadowed by the Apu thing.
I’ve certainly seen tweets complaining about it. I think in general most gay people (I know) feel that The Birdcage was done with a lot of good will towards the gay community that it just kinda gets a past? (Honestly, the main complaints I hear are from people who realize the French version is so much funnier…)
“I’ve seen tweets complaining about it” is perhaps the absolute worst comment one can hear tehse days. Like, liteerally, it means, “someone somewhere in the world said something about this”, and often means even less than that- it usually means some 40-IQ possessing mouth-breathing dope said “I have an opinion on this matter” to someone somewhere and instead of looking the other way and crossing the street (when that person used to be the guy on the corner screaming about robots and God to the walls) we now give them the credibility of being “people talking about ____” such. They are not society’s voice being shared in a new world. They are absolute morons and fools who think if they hit “tweet” they someow deserve acknowledgement, discussion, and analysis of whatever nonsensical, often delusional or 100% completely wrong argument they are “presenting” (which usually is “I don’t like this so you are a _____ and you shuld be imprisoned, executed or banished”.
Point is, people have been and continiue to be useless, stupid and dangerous, except now we somehow feel that they all deserve to be listened to and appeased. Please, just stop.
Well yes. And that was exactly what my comment was meant to imply–that there are people who have watched Birdcage and want to show their outrage on platforms like Twitter which means I don’t really think it’s become a real issue for most people.
There was no problem with Apu. People really get carried away these days with trying to be correct.
Whereas other assholes are super proud about being wrong.
“Now, Azaria doesn’t voice any non-white characters on The Simpsons at all.”
Do we mean non-yellow?
Hank Azaria retires his most beloved Simpson character:
I’m sorry, but WTF is Hank doing, *after* the whole Apu controversy, by putting on such an exaggerated, over-the-top bad Israeli accent in playing a scheming, venal, sexual-titillation-exploiting, thug-hiring, music business ‘manager’? Is this some sort of weird self-flagellating puplic penance? Because he’s making a real shande of himself.
Because he’s part jewish, hence he has more leeway in playing jewish roles/characters?
“Part Jewish”According to Wikipedia, his grandparents on both sides were Sephardic Thessalonian Jews – members of an ancient and illustrious community that was almost completely annihilated in the Holocaust.
yes, why would a character actor play a character with an accent or ethnic background? HOW DARE HE! He’sgot to prove his Israeli genetic roots if he wants to be allowed to do this, of course. I think a DNA test would suffice. Right? I mean, we can’t just allow ACTORS to act and PRETEND they are someone they are not. That could set a dangerous precedent in which, u know, people “ACT” and that might upset me or hurt my feelings because I think NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO DO ANYTHING I DONT LIKE EVER AGAIN AND ALSO BECAUSE I WILL TWEET ABOUT IT IF YOU DISAGREE
This is what should be the headline! I’m shocked you’re the first to bring it up.
The woke crowd always needs something to be offended by. By their standards “problematic” would include just about everything made prior to around 2015 or so. Hey, kids, there was a whole world of entertainment before you were old enough to get triggered.