One of my very close friends, a lesbian, has been married for a couple of years now. It’s been nothing but drama since the day they met. My friend had a terrible home life growing up and doesn’t understand stability. She also has zero self-confidence. My friend and her wife are constantly calling the cops on each other, getting restraining orders, and then always breaking them and getting back together. I told her that if she likes this drama, that’s one thing. It’s another if my friend got dragged into it and doesn’t want to live this way! But she cannot seem to quit their relationship. My friend tells me, “Lesbian relationships are drama,” and says I don’t get it because I’m “so damn straight.” Two questions: Are all lesbian relationships drama? And can you explain the whole “price of admission” thing again? It might help to open my friend’s eyes to how unacceptable this shit is. She says she wants out but she also wants to be loved and doesn’t think it would be any better with someone else.
Don’t Really Accept Melodramatic Actions
If that lesbian friend of yours isn’t willing to listen to you because you’re straight, DRAMA, she’s not going to listen to my gay ass. So I shared your email with three lesbian friends of mine—think of them as a three-member circuit court of lesbian appeals—in the hopes that your lesbian would listen to their asses.
“Are lesbian relationships drama?” asked Tracey “Peaches” Cataldo, the executive director of the HUMP! Film Festival. “No. Maybe lesbian relationships are high intensity. The shared experience of being gay, being women, communicating too much about everything—I mean, the U-Haul jokes resonate for a reason. However big feelings and big commitments don’t mean big drama. In my own experience lesbian drama involves disagreeing about how many coats of paint are needed on a bathroom wall or one person wanting to fuck when the other wants to watch The Crown. It’s not normal for lesbian relationship ‘drama’ to require 911 calls and it’s definitely not okay for said drama to look like a cycle of violence or result in trauma. Don’t confuse drama for passion.”
“I’m not sure lesbian relationships are any more drama than any other relationships,” said Katie Herzog, freelance dog ball journalist (really) and cohost of the Blocked And Reported podcast, “but considering the surprisingly high rates of intimate partner violence in lesbian relationships, they might actually be. Still, just because some lesbian relationships are drama doesn’t mean that all lesbian relationships are drama. Personally, I was involved in my fair share of soap operas as a young dyke, including once dating a woman who said she was possessed by a demon. (She was, the demon was coke.) But as an adult, the biggest drama in my relationship is The Undoing on Sunday nights on HBO. Either way, DRAMA’s friend’s relationship sounds unhealthy, and that’s not a lesbian thing.”
“Drama is saying your ex looked cute the last time you saw them on your current’s birthday,” said Cameron Esposito, the comedian and host of the podcast Queery. “Lesbian drama is saying that while watching The L Word: Generation Q. Seems more like DRAMA’s pal may be in a cycle of abuse—using the clues of police, restraining orders, and a feeling that one cannot do better. From my own experience, abuse isn’t something a friend can stop and DRAMA’s best option here may be to suggest a support group—perhaps offer to attend with her—and then lovingly detach from fixing this. Not because DRAMA doesn’t care but because we cannot control the lives of the ones we love.”
Thank you for your service, lesbians, I’ll take it from here.
Okay, DRAMA, I’ll explain the “price of admission” concept: You see, there are always gonna be things about someone that get on your nerves and/or certain needs a romantic partner cannot meet—sexual or emotional—but if they’re worth it, if that person has other qualities or strengths that compensate for their inability to, say, fill the dishwasher correctly or their disinterest in butt stuff, then clearing up after dinner or going without anal is the price of admission you have to pay to be with that person. And those are reasonable prices to pay. But putting up with abuse—physical or emotional—isn’t a price that anyone should pay to be in a relationship.
And the price of admission doesn’t just apply to romantic relationships, DRAMA. So if putting up with this drama isn’t a price you’re willing to pay to be friends with this woman, you can refuse to pay it—meaning, you have every right to end this friendship if drama is all you’re getting out of it.
Ending the friendship might actually help your lesbian friend. People who confuse drama for passion often get off on having an audience, DRAMA, and always being available for a friend like that—always making yourself available for their drama—can have the opposite of its intended effect. So by dropping everything and rushing your friend’s side every time the shit hits the fan could be creating a perverse incentive for your friend to stay in this shitty relationship. In cases like this, DRAMA, detaching—like Cameron suggested—isn’t just the right thing to do for yourself but the right thing to do for your friend as well. Because once she sees there’s no audience she might decide to end the show.
Follow Katie Herzog on Twitter @KittyPurrzog and read her dog ball journalism at www.moosenuggets.substack.com. Follow Cameron Esposito on Twitter @CameronEsposito. You can’t follow Tracey “Peaches” Cataldo on Twitter—because she isn’t on Twitter—but you can make and submit a film for HUMP! (Info on submitting a film to HUMP! can be found at www.humpfilmfest.com/submit.)
I’m a 35-year-old gay cis woman in New Jersey. I’ve been in a wonderful relationship with an amazing woman since April. In typical lesbian fashion, she moved in over the summer and we’ve been inseparable ever since. My problem is that my sister and her 9-year-old son have been living in my home for the last four years. She has a ton of drama with her ex—her son’s father—and just this past week my girlfriend had her first interaction with the Department Of Children And Family Services because of their drama. I’m used to it at this point, but it freaked my girlfriend out. When I purchased my home, I invited my sister to move in to help her get on her feet. It also meant I could try for a closer relationship to my nephew. She was going to finish her nursing degree so she could support herself and her son. Four years later, she’s still an LPN and still living in my home with her bad attitude and so much drama. Last night, she had a huge argument with my girlfriend while I was at work—I’m an ICU nurse and I work overnight—and she told my GF that I don’t spend enough time with her or her son since we started dating and she’s sad because she has no help, no friends, no blah blah blah. I need to cut the cord! I want a family and kids of my own and I’m planning to propose in the next few months. I love my sister, I do, and for years I’ve been there to help pick up the pieces from her shitty choices, but now is my time to prioritize myself and my happiness. How do I make her see that without making her feel like I’m abandoning her and her son?
Worried And Perplexed
Even if there was some way to ask your sister to move out that didn’t make her feel like you were abandoning her and her son, WAP, she would still do everything she in her power to make you feel like you were abandoning them. She knows that if she can make you bad enough, and if she can sow enough discord between you and your girlfriend, she won’t have to get her own place or stand on her own two feet. So brace yourself for a lot of drama, WAP, and be unambiguous and firm: Set a reasonable date for her to find her own place, offer whatever financial help you reasonably can, and make sure your nephew has your number. It sounds like he’s going to need someplace safe to run away to in a year or two—or in a month or two—and here’s hoping your girlfriend has it in her heart to be there for him the way you have.
Cameron Esposito is hosting an online party on December 31 at 6 p.m. (PST)—Cameron Esposito’s New Year’s Steve—with special sets, guests, and an early ball drop! It’s free but donations are welcome. For more info and tickets to Cameron’s show, head over to www.dynastytypewriter.com.
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www.savagelovecast.com
39 Comments
there’s a difference between drama and interesting. Drama is collapsing on the restaurant floor and yelling ‘my spaghetti was poisoned!’, when it’s not really, it’s mostly in your mind. Exciting, yes, but there’s only so many times that can work (and that is once, try it).
Interesting is the conversation at the table, in low, murmured tones about whatever you like, so long as you’re engaged… and not intent on poisoning each other. Interesting is playing a game or building something new collaboratively. That’s what makes relationships and families work.
Drama is when, after pulling that stunt and involuntarily having your stomach pumped at the local hospital, they tell you that they don’t accept your insurance and you owe $5800.
Drama would be costly and inconvenient then. A hospital bed taken up, an unnecessary procedure, a sore stomach, and the loss of a nice night out.
Forgo the spaghetti and ask for the chips with dip to share instead. no fuss.
Price of admission?! Uh, no.Does my wife (married 30 years) have faults? no. No, she doesn’t.There are things that she does that make her… her. Some of them make me smile. Some of them make me smile a lot. Some of them, I accept because I love her like the sun loves to shine, and those things are the things that make her who she is.So, when she’s running around like a chicken with its head cut off because her Dad is on his way… I just smile because she’s so happy to see him. Oh, I know I’m going to be doing all the cooking and cleaning that night, but that’s ok. There are plenty of times that she’s taking care of me. And when she’s gotten distracted by a murder mystery on TV and we end up not going to sleep that night… well, there are going to be more nights. There are plenty of times she puts me first.None of this is the “price of admission.” There’s just so much negative about that phrase. Instead, it’s loving acceptance of who you’re with. You’re not paying something, you’re GIVING something to the person you love most in the world. Good Lord, she makes me smile.
yeah, it also rubbed me the wrong way. “Price of admission” is a very self centred thing to say.
Been readin Savage Love for year and while Dan has a lot of good advice, he is also very much an inherently selfish person. Or at least his advice is selfish in a lot of ways. For some people that is just the advice they need. A lot of people get stuck in abusive manipulative relationships because they don’t think about being selfish enoughBut I agree the whole “price of admission” is a shitty concept.
Meh. I certainly could do without having to raise a spoiled child for the last 21 years, but it’s important to my wife, so I pay the “price” of having to put up with her albatross of a mother.
nononono, not selfish. Self centred. It is not “acting on the self interest” which is something that I can defend in most of the occasions (it’s your life, own that your decisions to improve your survival can hurt others, be aware of that), but ignoring that there are other people in the world. That for example you have a high price of admission as well.
The terminology may not be to your liking, but I think some people do need to hear that no potential partner is perfect. There are people out there who seem to think that they can—or at least should be able to—have a partner made practically to order, like life is Weird Science. (What is incel philosophy except an extreme manifestation of this view?)Other people are far more willing to accept flaws in their partners, some to the point that they’ll overlook abuse, serial cheating, and a host of other behaviors that should be unacceptable in any partner.I think that in order to give good advise, any advise columnist is going to have to dish out variations of both “don’t be so picky” and “you deserve more” where the situation calls for it.
Yeah, I kind of agree that we don’t need to commodify our relationships in Dan’s way, but this
“Does my wife (married 30 years) have faults? no. No, she doesn’t”
is also the kind of sentiment that could easily lead to problems. “Love means that my partner is always perfect!” is well-meaning, but it’s not great for humanity. You should have a partner who knows how to call you on your shit in a loving and supportive way. By all means, love someone in spite of their flaws, and acknowledge that there are issues that some people work on for their entire lives without ever fully resolving.
If a person said “all of the worst parts of my personality are core parts of my identity, so I’ll never even try to change,” you’d rightly recognize that person as kind of an asshole. And while it’s sweeter, it doesn’t magically become a better idea when applied to your partner. A good relationship should encourage you to be a better person, not promote an unmotivated stasis through a relentless wave of indiscriminately positive feedback.
Yeah, there’s a level of maturity that comes when you realize the person you love is their flaws, just as much as it is their virtues. “Price of admission” is a transactional concept, which is fine if you view your relationship as just an exchange of services, but not so useful if you want anything more than that.
“Price of admission” applies to most people, in that everyone has baggage or less than ideal circumstances. For me, a childless by choice woman, 2 kids with different mothers is definitely the price of admission to have my partner. Same with him working constantly on his business. Ideally, I’d be dating a childfree man with weekends off. Because this is real life and I’m not designing a partner from scratch, I accept that dating him means working on the business and encourage him to spend time with his kids. I do this because he is worth it and he appreciates the hell out of me. For me, the price of admission as a concept isn’t inherently negative; it’s realistic. He’s a package deal (kids and business) and I have thought a lot about what it means to grow a relationship under these circumstances. Every time, I come back to “he’s worth it”. In a healthy relationship, the price of admission might be high but is always worth it.
Cameron Esposito might be the single unfunniest individual on the planet. Also it’s ironic she would comment on this because I heard she abused the shit out is her ex wife Rhea Butcher (who actually is talented and funny).
It’s the kind of thing where you don’t even really need to be told that she’s unfunny; you just look at that awful haircut she had for years and know.
I remember when she had that column or feature or whatever it was on this site and it was always dire. She sure had a lot of rabid defenders though.
Truth.
Whoa, what?
Yeah. Sadly don’t have any specifics but I’ve also have several people tell me she’s a nightmare to work with and be around in general.
Are you suggesting that L Word “joke” wasn’t a full on knee slapper??
It almost would have worked if she had stuck to just the original L Word. Somewhere around halfway through realizing she was going for the full generation Q title you knew the timing was gonna be off. At that point she might as well have starting just listing the stars of the show and ended with it’s network and broadcast times. Maybe plugged Meundies halfway in.
It’s time for Savage Nobody! The advice column that didn’t get coal this Christmas!
Relationship drama?Cops called?
Protective orders?Ah, a cluster B relationship in bloom.I’m no doctor, but I know how crazy works. I’m going to guess a Co-Dependent and a Borderline. One who likes to fix and another who will always be broken.
Good luck, ladies.
“I’m no doctor”The only thing you said worth reading.
DRAMA, is that you?
Yeah i’m sure you have a ton of insight into…something.
Cool take, thanks for the comment.
Yeah I worry this sorta relationship has a strong chance of ending in a murder suicide. Sounds like these ladies need to get away from each other and maybe start getting some professional help to work out their shit. Being gay in this world ain’t easy and years of abuse can break people but it sounds like they are happy to just keep abusing each other instead of trying to fix themselves. I just hope there are no kids involved.
I completely agree with you. Borderline is a helluva drug.
So punitive *shakes head*. in this space and time i’m mostly skin, not so much science, or stings, or seeing red. I guess it feels good for you to sit in your armchair and classify the disbelievers but from where, and by who? Turn back your gaze, sweetheart.
Nice word salad.
yeah, convenient for you baby boy.
“Katie Herzog, freelance dog ball journalist”I thought you mean tennis balls, rubber balls, spongy balls, etc. I was super interested. Maybe she had advice on a good tennis ball substitute that my dog won’t rip in half. I googled her and found a site about Dog testicles. NOT as much fun.
“In my own experience lesbian drama involves disagreeing about how many coats of paint are needed on a bathroom wall or one person wanting to fuck when the other wants to watch The Crown.”So basically normal relationship dramaThis first letter bugs the fuck out of me. If you and your SO are calling the cops on each other and getting restraining orders against each other(which means some sort of abuse or stalking is happening) you are shitty partners. Your sexual orientation has nothing to do with that.
“This first letter bugs the fuck out of me. If you and your SO are calling the cops on each other and getting restraining orders against each other(which means some sort of abuse or stalking is happening) you are shitty partners. Your sexual orientation has nothing to do with that.”I cannot agree with this more. My first experience with this kind of relationship drama was, oddly enough, with a lesbian couple with whom both I was good friends with (I’m a middle aged straight guy, but this was back in my late 20’s). It was nothing but booze, drama, drugs, drama, repeat ad infinitum. Then I saw it with a married straight couple, and exactly the same. They got divorced four years after their wedding (it was a great wedding, btw). Then I found myself in a relationship with a woman who was a cutter and stopped taking her anti-depressants a year before we started going out and then moving in together. Both of which she never cared to mention before getting a place together. That’s when I realized that toxic relationships are exactly that. Toxic. And I’m seeing it again with two good friends, who are great when they’re sober and out and about, but geez. Drama. Sexual orientation has literally nothing to do with it. You either know how to have a relationship, or just continue to cause each other pain. The obvious solution is to just let it go, move on, and hope you learned something from it.
https://editions4u.com/